newbie questions kibble supplements

[quill]

Very new here!!! I have a 14 weeks old ferret named Chaos and have a desire to give him the best care possible! I have been reading here for a few days and have decided (for now) to feed kibble and Wysong Archetypal I. Can you recommend a good kibble or, if better, two kibbles to mix? I hope to switch to raw supplements soon. Do you think the kibble/Wysong is a good start for us? Chaos is a Marshall ferret and, being new to ferrets, am feeding him their kibble food. Now that I know how bad this food is for him I want to switch asap! I hope he isn't sick from this food already!!!!

[pear2apple]

I doubt he is sick already from the Marshalls, when I got my ferret, Apple, he was eating the Marshalls and thats it! Also, before that, he was fed ice cream! I have since switched him to several types of kibble, the best being Evo Ferret. He loved it, and right away took to it over the Marshalls. You should have no trouble at all switching him to Evo. Wysong also comes highly recommended, but I don't know much about it. I also feed Nature's Variety Raw Frozen diets, also good. But you can learn all about that from someone with more experience!

Also, check out the How To Rate Kibble thread of this forum section.

[mustelidmusk]

Hi,

What kind of problems are you having with your baby? Do you know what your ferret was being fed where you got him/her? Do you know if the food your ferret was previously eating was moist or dry???

As with any diet change, its generally recommended to change diets slowly to avoid upset. A lot of folks on this site have good experience, and we'll be happy to help with advice.

I started with the kibble/Wysong Archetypal I approach. I now feed frozen raw commercial diets (Nature's Variety) with Wysong Archetypal I, and a kibble mix as well. (Plus freeze-dried meats, and other supplements like eggs, Pingford's porridge, etc.) I find that this approach has affords sufficient flexibility for my hectic lifestyle while improving my ferrets', coats, energy levels, and overall health.

Yes, the Wysong Archtypal I is an outstanding product (But I don't recommend the Wysong Archetypal II, which is a kibble - its loaded with carbs/corn, etc.)

There are a number of better kibbles out there -
The Innova EVO for ferrets (a lot of ferret people use the cat version since the two are just about the same product, and the cat version is available in more stores) If you don't care for the EVO, there are some other chicken-based kibbles that can be used instead. I feed Wellness Core (Kitten food), I've used Pretty Pets Natural Gold Hi Protien/Lo Carb, and some other ferret kibble as well.

As a second kibble, I recommend Nature's Variety Instinct - Rabbit for cats. It's the only high protien, no-grain/low carb kibble with rabbit, and most ferrets like it. It also helps your ferret get used to rabbit, which is readily available in commercial diet and raw meats if you decide to try frozen raw.

Honestly, my brats eat such a small amount of kibble that I donate most of it and throw out more than they eat!

-jennifer

[quill]

Jun 4, 2008 16:26:14 GMT -5 mustelidmusk said:

What kind of problems are you having with your baby? Do you know what your ferret was being fed where you got him/her? Do you know if the food your ferret was previously eating was moist or dry???
-jennifer

Hi Jennifer, I'm not having any problems with Chaos, I just found this site a few days ago and have been reading about how bad some kibble can be so I'm sort of in a hurry to switch him before he develops any. Chaos was 9 weeks old when I bought him and he is a marshall ferret so he has been fed moisten marshall up to age 12 weeks and is now eating dry marshall. He is now 14 weeks old. So, i assume that marshall is all he has eaten. My vet said that marshall's is fine so I just continued feeding him that. I remember reading here someone feeds both kibble and raw. That's what I would like to do. I am sooooo new to this that I don't even know which brands are best....that brings us to this post. I just love my little fur baby and just couldn't stand the thought that I have harmed him in any way!! Any help and encouragement is appreciated!!!

[Forum Administrator]

Well you certainly have several options:

1. You can feed just kibble (obviously, I dont reccomend that)
2. You can feed a raw diet (If interested just ask for more info on how to provide balance in this diet)
3. You can feed a whole prey diet (made up or live or frozen-thawed mice, rats, etc)
4. You can feed a raw/whole prey combo
5. You can feed a raw/kibble combo
6. You can feed a whole prey/kibble combo
7. You can feed raw/whole prey/kibble combo
8. You can feed commerical raw/homemade raw/whole prey/ kibble
9. ETC

I personally prefer to feed whole prey. Its really easy to feed if you can stomach feeding dead prey animals to your ferret. Its really not that bad.

If you are interested in feeding kibble/raw here is a feeding schedule I made up. I posted this on the ferret.com forum:

If you supplement with raw (to the kibble) here is what I would do:

I would offer kibble daily and then every other day I would offer BONELESS raw meat (like chunks of organic beef or turkey), and then on the opposite days I would offer BONE-IN raw meat (chicken wing, chicken neck, chicken thigh, whole raw sardine, etc) ONCE a week I would offer a meal of organ meat (2-3 raw chicken gizzards, 1-2 raw chicken hearts, and 1 (preferably organic) chicken liver. (this is for ONE ferret btw)

A sample schedule for someone you is looking to supplement their ferret's KIBBLE diet with RAW would look something like this:

MONDAY: kibble (hard) and 1/2 cup of raw organic boneless beef chunks
TUESDAY: kibble (softened with water) and 1 (maybe two) raw chicken neck(s)
WEDNESDAY: kibble (hard) and 1/2 cup of raw, boneless lamb chunks
THURSDAY: kibble (softened with water) and 1-3 fresh, raw sardines or anchovies (good source of Omega-3)
FRIDAY: kibble (hard) 1/2 cup of raw, boneless pork chunks (yes you can feed raw pork, just freeze for a few days first)
SATURDAY: kibble (soft) and 1 raw turkey neck
SUNDAY: kibble (hard) and organ meat (2-3 raw chicken gizzards, 1-2 raw chicken hearts, 1 organic chicken liver)

Just a few notes/reminders:

*Please note that this is only a sample for ONE adult ferret (1-3 years old). You can (and should) modify this schedule to include various food items and suit your ferret's food intake needs.

*DO NOT feed kibble and raw together in the same meal. They take different amounts of time to digest (raw digests quickly and kibble takes longer to digest) If you feed raw and kibble in the same meal your ferret could get sick. Let me explain, raw food is not meant to stay in the ferret's body very long (this helps them not get sick when they eat raw meat) but if you feed kibble it will slow their digestion, add in raw food in the same meal and you could wind up with a ferret that gets ill from the raw because the kibble slowed digestion down to much. Make sense? I'd feed kibble in the morning and through the afternoon. Take away the kibble 1-2 hours before you feed your raw meal in the evening.

*To keep kibble from spoiling on the days you feed it soft/moist, please be sure to r
replace the food every 3-4 hours.

*Be prepared (lol) most people who start out supplementing the kibble with raw just switch totally to raw once they realize how easy it is to feed a raw diet and you'd be suprised, but a whole prey diet isnt that bad either. The frozen-thawed mice get eaten so quickly in my house that there isnt even a droplet of blood (or a hair) left behind! I put the ferts in the cage with the mouse, 5 minutes later it is gone. If I had a problem with blood and guts I think I could still feed whole prey because I very rarely see the ferret's eating their food. Its gone before I know it! Promise


Jojodancer, Mustelidmusk both feed a raw/kibble combo and I think a few other members might as well.

[quill]

Thanks for the schedule Giuli. I'll print it out. ok...now the big question...how to start? Should I slowly switch kibble first and then introduce raw/frozen or slowly switch to both at same time? hmmm...now to find a source...off to read some more!!!

[Forum Administrator]

Here is a post I recently made on the ferret.com forum. This answer was originally addressed to Optimo (a member here as well) Sorry to give you a copy/pasted answer, but its a bit easier then re-typing everything. Hope you understand:

As far as getting them to try the new food, as long as your ferrets are healthy, hunger can be a great motivator. They dont understand the meat is food, and they most likely wont try it unless they are hungry. I recommend a fast. Remove all food from their cage for 12 hours. Provide PLENTY of water though. At 12 hours, take the chicken breast and cut it up into "kibble sized" pieces. You CAN heat slightly, but do it on a frying pan and not in the mircowave (So that only the outside of the meat cooks, and the inside remains raw).

Next, coat the chicken in ferretone, and sprinkle with crushed kibble. Offer them this food at the 12 hour mark. Leave the food out for 12 hours. When you get 24 hours into the switch, if they still have not touched it, offer them a little bit of pure meat babyfood, "duck soup", or a SMALL amount of kibble, just enough that they eat SOMETHING, but not a ton of food. Then continue to offer ONLY the new "meat mixture". Keep this pattern up, if at 24 hours the havent touched it, offer a little food again, then right back to the new meat mixture. Stick to your guns, they should come around in a few days and be willing to try the food.

There are many methods that you can use for switching your ferrets diet. Putting the babyfood on the kibble was a good idea. If you dont like the idea of fasting your ferrets, or if they consistantly refuse to eat the new food, what you can do is this:

1. Day ONE: Moisten their kibble SLIGHTLY with some low sodium chicken broth.

2. When they are eating the slightly moistened kibble with no issues, mix in some babyfood with the soggy chicken brothy kibble.

3. When they are eating the kibble/broth with the babyfood in it, phase out the chicken broth until they are eating a mix of kibble and babyfood.

4. Offer them licks of babyfood as a special treat. Once they associate the babyfood with good things (and they like the taste), fast them for 12 hours then offer them the babyfood with TINY pieces of raw, cut up chicken in it (pieces of raw chicken HALF the size of a piece of ferret kibble). If they eat the food great! Increase the size of the chunks gradually. If they DO NOT eat the chunks (like if they eat around them), dont give up, keep offering the raw/babyfood mix. Eventually they SHOULD try the chunks.

5. Slowly phase out the babyfood and at the same time increase the size of the chunks. Eventually they should be eating plain, raw, chicken breast tenderloins (without them being cut up).

6. When they eat the chicken with ease, go ahead and buy a chicken WINGETTE. It is a section of a chicken wing. This is how you can introduce them to bone. They will chew the meat off the bone and at first they might leave the bone, but eventually instinct SHOULD kick in, and they'll eat the bone.

When you get to this point, I can offer you further advice.

--------------------------------------------

There are many ways to switch your ferret. Aleron is a member on our forum and here is the way she recommends switching your ferret. Her post is at the very bottom of this thread that I am going to provide. Scroll all the way to the bottom to see it:

forum.ferret.com/tm.asp?m=63890

[quill]

I like the idea of the frozen/raw meat and after reading and talking over with husband have decided to switch Chaos completely. Yay!! Can't wait to get started. Off to store tomorrow to buy chicken broth and baby food. We are chicken eaters so I have frozen chicken breasts!

Thanks for the links. I have read read them and printed them out for reference. Maybe I won't have to ask so many questions!

[quill]

Just found the thread of toby's mentoring! Lot's of good info there!

[Forum Administrator]

Many people start out wanting to feed half kibble/half raw, but then they realize that its just easier to feed all raw. I was one of those people. I went from kibble to raw to whole prey. I must say Im really diggin the whole prey.

When feeding a raw diet you want to eventually progress to the following percentages. During the initial switching phase you dont need to include all these, but this is what you should work up to.

Flesh (Not just muscle meat, but: tendon, ligaments, cartilidge, skin, muscle, and fat)
Bone
Organs

All play a vital role in your ferret's diet. By following the percentages listed you can guarentee that your ferret consumes all these essential parts. Strive to feed these percentages each week:


60%- Raw Meaty Bones (Bone in meat, such as chicken wings)
30%-Muscle Meat (Boneless meat chunks, such as beef chunks)
10%-Organ Meat (gizzards, livers, hearts, etc)

So basically (4 days where you feed primarily raw meaty bones, 2 days where you feed boneless meat, one day where you feed organ meat)

You can feed a variety of meats including:

Chicken
Beef
Pork
Turkey
Lamb
Emu
Osterich
Duck
Rabbit
Pheasent
Quail
ETC

Chaos might eat alot of food at first. Kits eat TONS (way more then you'd expect) but by the time they reach 1 year old they eat less food. I would offer him as much food as he will eat (unless he starts to get chubby. Ferrets grow ALOT during the first 6 months, so dont confuse regular growth with "getting fat") Here is a sample schedule of one week on an all raw diet:

MONDAY: 2/3-1 cup organic boneless beef chunks
TUESDAY: 1/4 small Cornish game hen
WEDNESDAY: 1 large raw (extra meaty) turkey neck
THURSDAY: 1 segement of a raw pork neck and 1-5 whole raw anchovies and/or sardines
FRIDAY: 2/3-1 cup boneless lamb chunks (sprinkled with eggshell powder*)
SATURDAY: 1 whole small raw chicken thigh
SUNDAY: 2 raw chicken gizzards, 1 raw organic chicken liver, 1 raw chicken heart, 1 raw egg yolk (with one crushed egg shell), ½ cup of boneless salmon chunks (the salmon is optional. Feed if your ferret is still hungry on this day after eating the organs)

You may have to feed more or less food then what is listed. It all depends on your individual ferret. If there is constantly food being left over, you are probably feeding too much. If Chaos looks like he's gunna gnaw your arm off you are probably feeding too little.