First time switching 5 ferrets

[jccretarolo]

1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems (this is VERY important)? I have 5 ferrets currently.
Oliver, about 2 years, male, no health problems
Olivia, about 2 years, female, no health problems
Rouge, about 3 years, female, no health problems
Kasparov, about 4 years, male, no health problems
Pukka, about 5 years, male, no health problems

2. What are your ferrets currently eating? Include their main diet, plus any treats or supplements (such as duk soup).
Special Kitty kitten food & I try to give a small amount of my duk soup.

3. What kind of diet do you want to switch to?
Raw

4. Why do you want to switch to this more natural diet?
I'm wanting to switch so my ferrets can be as healthy as possible and have more energy.

5. Where/what/who got you interested in natural diets?
My sister who has 2 raw/prey feed ferrets

6. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?
Oliver- good weight, fair muscle
Olivia- good weight, good muscle
Rouge- good weight, good muscle
Kasparov- a little heavy, poor muscle
Pukka- a little thin, poor muscle

7. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)
All have some yellowing and no teeth missing or broken.

8. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.
Oliver- Sable, soft, coarse guard hairs
Olivia- Marked white? (she was grey when I got her and has turned almost all white), very soft
Rouge- Dark sable, soft, coarse guard hairs
Kasparov- DEW? (he too was silver and now almost all white), soft (though not as soft as the younger 3)
Pukka- DEW with a little grey at tail tip, not soft though he is about 5 or 6.

9. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?
Not sure as all 5 share a cage, but I'd say 4-8 times a day each by what is in the litter box.

10. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?
Urine is very strong, but stool isn't bad.

11. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?
They don't have much odor unless they get baths more than every other month.

12. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?
Oliver- 8
Olivia-8
Rouge- 7
Kasparov- 3
Pukka- 5

13. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?
The girls very, the boys only if they have been out for more than an hour.

14. Have you attempted to switch from kibble to a natural diet in the past? If so, what methods have you tried. Be specific.
Have not tried yet, but I'm also switching my cats and my male is loving the raw food! My 2 girls are not so sure its food.

15. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?
All my current ferrets I got for free. Kasparov (craigslist) was to keep Panda (RIP) company, then Oliver & Olivia I got from craigslist and had been kept in a small rat cage when I got them, then Pukka & Rouge were from a friend of mine who could not keep them due to having to move.

16. If you can, please post a clear photograph of EACH of your ferrets directly below: I will try.

17.

a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch at least every other day?** Yes

b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers)via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's safety during the switch?
Yes

c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explanation as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?***
Yes

**Note 1: If you are unable to make it to a computer (such as on weekends) please indicate below so we know whether you just don't have computer access or if you have gone MIA.

***Note 2: If you would like to try the switch again and you are committed to making regular updates you ARE welcome to restart your thread. Failure to provide regular updates will result in the deletion of your thread.

[Heather]

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program
Please feel free to prowl this site, check out some of the various mentoring threads. See if there is any particular method that might appeal to you or that you're comfortable with. While you do that I will go about finding you a mentor . Feel free to post any questions that you may have here as this is now your space. Either myself or one of the other mentors will pop in and answer them for you. I will be talking with you later .
ciao

[jccretarolo]

So last night I tried some very finely cut up meat (a little beef, pork, and chicken) and Rouge & Oliver sniffed at it but wouldn't try it so I put a little of their kibble over it and this morning some of the meat (the beef) and almost all the kibble was gone.

I think I'm going to put some of the meat in the food processor and make a soup tonight. Because the beef was what was missing I think I'm going to try that first. Also do you think it would be OK to mix in some of the vanilla ensure that they love to see if it will get them to eat the soup?
I'm also going to take their kibble away about 2 hours before trying the soup so they are hungry.

[Heather]

Try it without the ensure first. Ensure has a lot of sugar and artificial supplements in it which is terrible stuff for your furkids (the sugar primarily). Use a beef broth for your liquid (real broth, not bovril or gravy makers) and see if they will eat it that way. You might also try doing the same thing as last night...grind up some kibble and just bread the meat in the kibble bits. It's worth a try. If you're guys will eat whole meats right off you wouldn't have to worry about the soupys thing at all (unless you want them to start recognising it for the times when they're not well. Just some ideas
ciao

[jccretarolo]

OK I tried without the ensure and no one would touch it so I added the ensure. 1 8oz bottle to 1lb ground turkey, 1 cup kibble and 2 cups water. I'm going to get more turkey tomorrow so I can make another batch without the ensure so I can give them some of each mixed together. I figure after a few days they will eat it without any of the ensure mix.

What else can/should I add to the soup mix? I have tripe, heart, and liver. I also am going to call the meat market near me to see if they can grind a couple whole chickens for me. I know there are a lot of other odd meats/organs I can get as there are tons of Asian and Mexican markets in my area.

Another questian how do you post pictures on here?

[jccretarolo]

Also I have quite a few pork bones left from cutting the meat off for my cats, can I use them to make my own broth for the soup I make tomorrow so I know it doesn't have any salt or other stuff in it?

[Heather]

Yes to the pork bones, I'm just going to say please no ham. It sounds like you know this but I assume nothing.
I'm going to give you a recipe that I've used since forever to not only switch my guys but to feed to sick fuzzies with some adjustments.
You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:

*8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat)
1 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder)
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
**Water (use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker)
**You can also use broth (as you are using your pork soup) or a raw egg if you choose. Do not use more than 3 whole eggs per week, you will get a phenomena known as rat tail...I don't want you to scare yourself and think that your little ones have gone adrenal
*You can also replace the protein with any meat of your choice and you may replace the egg shell with ground bone if you wish.

Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest. If they absolutely refuse to try the soupy, suck some of it up into the syringe. Use the guide below to get them eating the soup from the syringe:

forum.ferret.com/tm.asp?m=27179

I'm not a big fan of syringe feeding and don't use it, but I feel that you should be aware of all your options. My biggest fear when feeding through a syringe is aspiration.

Most ferrets will willingly eat the food once they actually TASTE it, so the only struggle you *should* encounter is them not wanting to taste it. Don't be surprised if your furbabies' initial reaction is to gag, spit and look at you like, what are you trying to poison me with But don't let them get away with it The hardest part is to insist and be consistent. Please also be aware that after years of kibbles they aren't aware that what you're offering them is indeed food. Once they willingly eat from the syringe, or your finger and spoon, work to try and get them eating this out of a dish or plate.

Each time you make your soupy, use a little less water to make it thicker/chunkier. Replace soup with fresh soup every 4-6 hours. You can make a large batch if you like and freeze into ice cubes or cupcake trays. Then you just thaw a portion and serve. OR you can put a frozen "cube" into their bowl and let it slowly thaw.

On another note, please don't be alarmed about your little ones getting runny poopies, it happens sometimes when they get new foods, not enough bone or if you mix kibbles with raw meat. Raw meat and kibbles digest at different rates (raw meat is faster). You can add pumpkin to help them digest their food better and settle their tummies.
You can use any protein source you desire. We only request that by the time it's all over that you make use of a minimum of 3 different proteins. The greater the variety the more trace minerals you will cover meaning that your furbabies will not need any supplementation.
ciao

[jccretarolo]

so I made some more soup. I put 1.25lbs of ground pork, 2oz of liver, 1 cup kibble, and all the liquid was the pork broth. I also made a batch without the liver and will be making some soup in the morning that is the same just with ground beef so I can have a bunch ready in the freezer. I'm also going to get some eggs and add them to the beef mix I'm going to make that way I will also have some shells to grind up.

Tonight I gave them the pork w/liver mixed with the turkey stuff I already had made. Kasparov, Pukka, and Rouge dived right in and ate about 1/2oz each. After I got Oliver and Olivia to try it they did the same.

I have so far been keeping their kibble dish in with them most of the day/night and they have eaten maybe 1/4 cup in the last 24hrs (normally its about 1-1.5 cups).

So far everyone's poopies look just a little soft but not bad.

Also can I use pork liver? Beef tripe? And is beef heart as good as chicken heart? Last question tonight. If I choose to try them with whole prey can I use chicks as I found a source to get 100 one day olds for about $58 (with shipping)? They would come to me live but I'm OK with raising them to 1-2 weeks (or 6-8oz) then euthanizing and freezing them.

[jccretarolo]

I forgot...while out playing tonight Rouge tried stealing and stashing a big (for her) piece of pork from the cats bowl! So I think I might try cutting some very small strips of either pork or chicken and mixing it into their soup in the morning.

[Heather]

Yes, your kitties are going to be a little ticked with your ferrets new found love of food I've found that my guys eat the cats food as much as they eat their own (it's one of the reasons why I have really no clue as to how much they eat during the day )
Some great ideas, yes, try some little strips of whole meat to see if they will eat that. I would also try them on some chicken legs or wings. Get them eating some strips of meat first but we have to get them eating bone, so that their poopies stay relatively firm. Raw fed ferret's poopies is looser than their kibble counterparts. Their system is getting the amount of liquid they actually need. It will serve you well in the long run, for when they get ill, they will not dehydrate quite as fast as they would with kibbles. It means that minor flu bugs are not catastrophic emergency vet visits in the middle of the night. They get just as sick but they bounce back better.
Yes, beef, pork or any other offal is easily interchanged with chicken. I think most of us use chicken as a base because it's readily available. I envy those that are near international markets as their fuzzies get really adventurous meals You're furbrats can have any protein source you dream up for the most part.
Chicks are a great source, most people, to start feed them day old until their guys get the hang of eating them and then gradually move up. I gather that you don't want to let them get pin feathers (whatever stage that is) I remember a natural feeding breeder complaining about cleaning up after a furry feast of larger birds and having feather everywhere. She had raw fed kits on the ground that she described as the fur and teeth gang. She said her biggest fear was that she would fall down in their pen and become dinner. It was her first adventure into feeding nothing but raw to her kits. She had fed raw to her adults for years but always did a mix for her kits.
I would start working the kibble out gradually out of your mix, so that your guys are eating whole soupy. I noticed that you don't have a calcium source (the kibble will provide that a bit) so you will have to start adding either ground bone (don't use bone meal if you can possibly help it) or egg shell. I did have one lady find a source of ground bone meal from her butcher (the grind off from the various bones he cuts up) It's raw and she found it worked very well for her guys.
Just some ideas for you to mull over I will be talking to you later
ciao

[jccretarolo]

I made some beef soup today (not very wet) with 1lb ground beef, 4 chicken hearts, and 3 eggs. I figure I'm going to start mixing a little of this new mix in with the ones I already made and slowly phase out the stuff with kibble.

Everyone except Oliver is just eating the soup mix. Again only about 1/4 cup of their kibble was gone and today I had to re-fill the soup plate (I'm using one of my salad plates until I get them their own) about 4 times. Each time I fill it I put about 5tbls so I know they are eating well.

I'm going to use the egg shells from the soup I made and was wondering how fine they need to be ground? Does it need to be a powder or can I just grind them until they are finely ground?

[Heather]

Sounds like a plan...your guys are moving along really well. Great stuff.
I use a mortar and pestle and grind them to a powder. I find my guys are really finicky about eating egg shells....I don't know why ::)they'll eat bone . Some people use the coffee grinders for their egg shells.
Talk at you later, keep up the great work
ciao

[jccretarolo]

All 5 are now starting to eat the soup on their own I'm mixing 2oz of the turkey/ensure, 3oz of the pork, and 1-2oz of beef (no kibble). Tomorrow I'm going to decrease the turkey/ensure mix to 1oz and increase the amount of beef I put in. I'm also putting in a little sprinkling of eggshell powder at each meal and their poops are firming up a lot.

I'll check back in tomorrow to let you know how they are doing.

[Heather]

You're moving along fantastically. Doing really well. I'm glad that the poopies are starting to firm up, the egg shell will indeed help. I will check in on you tomorrow to see how things are going.
ciao

[jccretarolo]

So far all 5 are still doing good. They are now getting 1oz of the turkey/ensure, 5oz of pork/kibble, and a couple big spoons of the beef/no kibble soup. Everyone is eating well and have even gotten a little of the mix my sister has for her ferrets and that includes a couple of ground mice. They haven't tried it on its own even though there has been a bowl as I'm watching her ferrets for a couple of days. I gotta go I'll give you an update latter.