Beef Suet and Pancreas

[ferretdroogies]

Hey!

I will be buying from Hare Today soon to start switching my guys over to that, and I saw two things that intrigued me on the site as well.

They sell beef suet! Apparently it's the fat found on the side of the kidneys and loin.
www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_31&products_id=195
It says it's good for adding extra fat for underweight animals (not that any of my guys need that right now) Has anyone ever used it? I have actually seen this on the ingredient list of one of the Pingford's Porridge dry soup mix. Could it be an alternative to adding heavy whipping cream for weight gain?

Another thing I found was ground beef pancreas! www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_31&products_id=43
Basically it takes the place of digestive enzyme supplements, and also used for animals with pancreatic problems. Would this be good for the added digestive enzymes, especially older ferrets who have lost some digestive enzymes with age? Would it even be good for ferrets with insulinoma since their pancreas is unable to work properly? Maybe even good for IBD ferrets and other digestive problems in ferrets?

Just some interesting stuff I found

[Heather]

It sounds interesting and poses some interesting ideas. I've always maintained that to add weight to a ferret one should try and use animal fat vs creme (I've had better success with the animal fat than the creme). It would be interesting to see if this would be a good way to add healthy weight to a sickly ferret.
As far as the beef pancreas....you'd have to try and report back I've heard of some natural remedies that do indeed use powdered pancreas to treat pancreatic di-seases...diabetes in humans if I remember correctly, but I don't know anything about the success of such remedies. Unfortunately, if you look it up the sellers tout it as a cure all and the doctors tell you it's not useable....so I'm sure if falls somewhere in the middle .
ciao

[ferretdroogies]

I will have to try the pancreas as maintenance to help with digestion since Reks we think has IBD. Dr. Powers (the vet I work for) says that's what it sounds like.

Ever since the day we got them, Reks has always had seedy poops. They were even worse when he was eating kibble (for the month that they ate it before I decided to switch them). When we switched them to commercial raw (freeze-dried and dehydrated), it got better, but he still has them a few times a week.

We do give them fatty acid supplements (switch between a few) for general health and for it's anti-inflammatory affects. When they get their Wysong Uncanny (only wet food they'll eat right now) I put canned pumpkin or squash baby food in it for the fiber.

I have also tried various digestive enzyme supplements, but these are not as effective. They seem to make his poops, and the others poops worse.

This is yet another reason I want to switch them to whole ground raw from hare today. It will be easier to add pumpkin/squash or other veggies to EVERY meal instead of just the one a day (only about 3oz worth of wet food that they all scarf in 2 seconds flat ) I think the increased water consumption from it will also help with digestion and absorption, as well as not causing chronic dehydration as seen in most animals that eat strictly dry, all the way to kidney failure (which I see literally everyday at work).

Also, the whole ground rabbit and whole ground mice include fur, which will obviously help. Even then I might add the pancreas for added digestive enzymes, especially for Reks.

I'll see if it helps or not. It sounds promising

[Darlene]

Sept 10, 2009 0:13:42 GMT -5 Heather said:

I've always maintained that to add weight to a ferret one should try and use animal fat vs creme (I've had better success with the animal fat than the creme).

I'm feeling kind of stupid asking this....but what kind of animal fat do you use?

[Heather]

I just use the animal fat of the frankenprey I'm using. If it's beef that's being fed then the fat from the beef, same for chicken, pork...it doesn't really matter . Don't feel silly, it's an honest question and I certainly didn't specify. As I feed frankenprey as well as ground and prey, I use the fat from the meat chunks. When feeding chicken use the pope's nose or tail it's full of really good weight on fat.
ciao

[sherrylynne]

I haven't heard that particular phrase for years, Heather . Do you think we're dating ourselves?

[Heather]

I probably am but then I've never pulled any punches about being the old fart on the list Most of the kids on this list are younger than my daughter
ciao

[sherrylynne]

Not the only oldster on the list anymore! We're the same age And I'm very proud of having made it this far

[mustelidmusk]

Hey!!! Don't forget me-----I'm the old fart with the natural blaze (aka - huge streak of gey hair - NOT sexy highlights ).

On a more serious note, since the suet comes from hare today, it's probably suet (fat from around kidnys and loin area) rather than the rendered/cooked grease they stick in wild bird food. But I would follow Heather's advice by sticking with fat from the meat you're feeding. This should be more bio-available since the fat is from the same type animal type as the meat. ALso, feeding too much fat can result in pancreatitis - ferret can get this even though they do require more fat than cats/dogs.

For the pancreatic enzymes, there are 3 types that I know of:

1. plant-based: papain/bromelain
2. fungal-based: more effective than plant-based
3. Pancreatic enzymes- most effective,

plant- and fungal-based enzymes work best if they are mixed into wet/moist foods for 1/2 - 1 hour before feeding. (Over night works well too, and a little extra water helps activate the enzymes if the ground meat is on the dry side. )

The key here is that the enzymes start breaking down the protiens in advance of the feeding.

SOmetimes poor digestion is caused by a pancreas that produces too little acid. For these cases, betaine can be used to increase acids.

IBD is a GROUP of diseases that have different causes. For example, many vets feel that eosiniphilic gastroenteritis is caused by food allergy. IBS is considered to be more of a functional disorder more closely related to neurological abnormalities, and chron's disease is more of an autoimmune system issue.

The only way to concretely diagnose the type of IDB is through biopsy. SOmetimes biopsies are inconclusive as well. You can try some remedies without the biopsy and get some improvement.

Depending on how the enzymes were used and/or which type you were using, you may want to try some of the other alternatives. As with anything, start slowly. You vet may have some ideas as well.

-jennifer

[spiritualtramp]

An interesting aside Heather and Sherry - around here, we call it the parson's nose --- I suppose that's because of New England's religious roots haha.

[sherrylynne]

I have heard that one before, too. But the "pope's nose" was far more common where I'm from.

[vkoslin]

Hey, I'm feeding from Hare-today.com as well as "frankenprey" and looking into freeze-dried.

My ferrets love the coarse ground chicken/organs/bones. It's not very coarse, though, it still seems pretty ground up, but nevertheless, I supplement, so I know their jaws are getting good exercise. I emailed them and asked, so for future reference, the bigger animals: mutton, beef, etc., the grinds are much coarser than the chicken, so the coarse grind there is still chunks.

I wanted to keep them on a hare-today diet, but with 3 fat boys, 2 fat girls, and a skinny minnie girl (6 total), hare-today was going to cost around 70 a month if I ordered 30lbs of one type of meat. So, with no variety, I'll spend 70. Then, if I chose to do, say, 3lb bags of different kinds of meat, I'd spend at least 100 a month, if not much more, because duck, pheasant, turkey, rabbit are all much more expensive than the cheapest, chicken.

Anyways, I love hare-today and I wish I could afford it full-time. I feel good leaving my babies' tummies to these people. I still feed hare-today coarse ground chicken 2-3 times a week, and feed them beef cuts, chicken wings, chicken thighs (quartered), chicken gizzards. I know it's not a lot of variety but I'm still figuring out raw... (by the way, if anyone can tell me if I'm missing anything from that menu, nutrition-wise, plz let me know).

Hope this helped...let me know about the pancreas. Their organ meats prices are pretty great and you can't beat the variety on there.

[sherrylynne]

I'd definitely throw in at least one more protein in the mix. Lamb, pork, whatever you can get. More, if possible. Turkey's another good one.