Veggies for ferrets!

[mustelidmusk]

Think twice if you beleive there's no room for vegetables in the ferret diet!!!

(NOTE - we all know vegetable pieces can cause obstruction, so no salads please!!! )

OK, so there's been a lot of controversy about vegetables for ferrets. ...some people believe they're even harmful for ferrets.

According to holistic/integrative vet Dr.McCluggage (who is well-respeced and has been treating ferrets for many years) , greens are the only thing he found missing from my ferret's diet - and my kids even get some veggies in thier commercial foods!

OK, so this is not a "natural" food for ferrets; HOWEVER, all cells in the body have cerain nutritional requirements. If you look at this at the cellular level, all cells can benefit from the addition of certain nutrents.

But can ferrets, whcich have no cecum, get anything out of plant matter? If ferrets get nothing out of plant matter...
* why do we worry about grains/carbs?
* why do we use herbal remedies for our ferrets?

In short, ferrrets do NOT utilize vegetable matter efficiently, but pant matter does impact theire diet. Provided in certain forms (very finely ground and mxed in with ground meat/soup) , ferrets can benefit from the addition of small amounts plant matter to their diets.

Here is what my vet has me adding to my kids' diet:

1 small picnh of Nanogreens per ferret daily.
nano-greens.com/landing/GglAw12108b.php?gclid=CPeTw6eYyZwCFSn6agodHCqNPg

-jennifer

[weloveourweasels]

Very interesting.

[ferretdroogies]

Very interesting!

There is another product that's similar from For Ferrets Only called PetiGreens www.craftycreatures.com/forferretsonly/health/petigreens.html

This has nothing to do with veggies, but I was wondering if he knows anything about supplementing ferrets with glandulars and if it might help with insulinoma and adrenal. I know it's used in dogs and cats that have endocrine diseases, but not sure about ferrets. The theory is that you are making up for the lacking or diseased gland by supplementing with it. www.craftycreatures.com/forferretsonly/health/petglandular.htm

Also, I do already supplement the floofs with kelp for the benefits it has for animals with endocrine diseases (even hyperadrenocortism or "cushings" in dogs and cats). This makes me feel even better about using it after reading this

Wysong makes lots of supplements for carnivores that include small amount of plant matter as well. Now only if Wysong Archetype didn't make Pandora barf

What about bee pollen? I've always wondered if they could benefit from a very small amount. I found a great supplement that would be good for ferrets too. It's called Wholistic Organics Feline Complete (I also use the kelp from this company for the floofs) www.thewholisticpet.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=561&ParentCat=50

I have to go, but I will post more later since this is very interesting

EDIT:
Here's the other "green" supplements I found

Wysong Wild Things www.wysong.net/products/wildthings-dog-cat-supplement.php

Halo Daily Greens (can get at Petco!) shop.halopets.com/Pet-Supplements/VitaGlo-Daily-Greens

I forgot where I read it, but apparently ferrets were more deficient in L-arginine than taurine, even though I think taurine should be supplemented as well.

This is the reason I will be supplementing my guys with Wysong Call of the Wild and Wholistic Organics Feline Complete. The Hare Today Simply Raw supplement look interesting as well for the same reasons.

Sometimes I let the floofs like the bottle cap after shaking up one of these two superfood drinks I get all the time (Naked Juice Superfood Green Machine and Odwalla Original Superfood)
www.nakedjuice.com/#OurJuices/Background/MainMenu/Families/Superfood/bottle2

[Heather]

I have been adding plant matter to my guys diet ever since I discovered that it helped my IBD guys (that was at least 3 or 4 yrs ago. The others seem to benefit too. The easiest and the cheapest method....go buy a pkg of salad greens off the bargain or discounted section of your grocery bring it home throw it in the freezer. Once it's frozen, smash it (this can bring about intense pleasure and release all sorts of pent up frustrations ) until it is will pulverized add to your ground mix, I usually use about 1/2 c to 3/4 c per 5 lbs of ground meat and bones. You freeze it to break down the cell walls this a carnivore cannot do naturally so by freezing it you actually assist in the digestive process. For whatever reason my IBD guys seem to better process their foods when I add this (I think it slows down the digestive process a bit allowing better absorbtion of nutrients). Remember our IBD guys process their food even faster than they would normally. I don't go in for a lot of supplementation. I think a lot of it is a great way for manufactureres to make a good dollar off us. I honestly believe that by adding natural foods we shouldn't have to add a whole lot of additives and supplements to our furkids diets....JMO of course \
ciao

[mustelidmusk]

Heather,
I beleive you are probably right....greens are natural. And per our previous discussions, we've both found that the ferret digestive system does better with the addition of a bit of fiber. The veggies are a good source of fiber while adding "green" benefits. Fiber an be added with the use of ground egg shell and/ or psyllium. Too much egg shell can overload a ferret and skew the bone/meat balance. I think psyyllium has little or no usable nutrietnt content.

I tried the Nanogreens on my brats - Shaman can spit nanogrens farther than he can poop!!!! I tated them - they're weet, and my brats ***hate*** sweet. They get only a small pinch per day - but one room in my house with green walls is suffient. I'm going to look for an alternative mix of green.

The only unnatural thing is the taurine. And that's solely because taurine is so fragile - since I feed quite a bit of commercial frozrn raw, I think there's a greater chance that the food will sit around frozen for longer periods of time. You don't NEED to supplement with taurine, but it cwetanly won't hurt (and it may add value).

jennifer

[Heather]

Try not to use psyllium. Use pumpkin, use squash, use ferretlax , don't use psyllium except under the consult of your naturalpath. Psyllium requires so much additional water that we humans must drink 2 8oz glasses of water to accomodate it's water absorbing tendencies for one dose. Our darling little carnivores (unless we push fluids by syringe) cannot drink enough water. It then forms a cement type blockage. This has been seen in cats (I can't say the same for ferrets but an obligate carnivore just the same).
Just a thought
ciao

[sherrylynne]

Ok. You two also feed a ground mix, so can add it to that. I just feed large chunks, and whole prey. So how would I go about adding any form of "greens" to that sort of diet. The taurine I could see, since it's a powder I could sprinkle on, but I even have to syringe pumpkin to get any into them if they may have things in their tummies they shouldn't. They do get soupies once a week. Would it be enough to add a wee bit in there?

[Heather]

Yes, add a bit to their soupy...might look a little weird with little green bits floating in it but yes, try that.
ciao

[ferretfreke]

How does adding greens fit into a whole prey diet? I rarely feed mine any kind of soup anymore. How vital are greens? If they are really important I could feed them soup maybe once a week or something. I try to avoid it because my brats will sometimes decide they don't want whole prey after I give them soup.

[sherrylynne]

Ferretfreke, I'd still make a point of giving soup at least once a week. You want them to continue to recognize it as a viable food source just in case they get ill. Frequently sick ferrets refuse their normal food, but will still take soup. It's also really good for hiding a number of medicines in.

[Heather]

Veggies work in the grand scheme of things when we feed frankenprey or ground diets. Those that feed only prey can get by probably with feeding little to no veggies. What you're doing with the veggies is simulating fur and other fibers that are eaten when prey is consumed. A carnivore cannot make usuable nutrients from the veggie matter, they cannot break down the cell walls and make good use of the nutrients. If you freeze or even cook your veggies you can assist your furchild's gut bacteria which needs this to feed on. You can supply this food by feeding fur and other undigestibles or you can feed veggies, it's really quite simple when you think about it. An IBD ferret cannot utilize all its nutrients because the food actually goes through their system too quickly. Their digestive track is damaged. If you slow the process they start to put on weight and have fewer attacks or episodes. My guys get veggies to slow their digestive process down to a dull roar. The rest eat it too, and it doesn't do any damage, is it good for them, I think so I've raw fed, you know the whole meat only thing....my guys were healthy and benefited from my change of plans from kibbles. Now, I feed some plant matter with my ground meats....and my guys are even healthier. Feeding naturally is a learning process, ten years ago I would never have thought to feed the way I do now. I've learned a lot and I will continue to learn .
ciao

[ferretfreke]

I still do feed soup here and there. It's just pretty infrequent now. Maybe once every two weeks and they are always so excited to eat it. It doesn't concern me too much about them not wanting it later because one, they still always love it no matter how long it's been and two, I can always syringe feed it if they refuse it. Whereas I can't do that as easily with a mouse, but I do see your point. Most of the time with my kids, even if they aren't feeling well, if it comes out of a syringe it's almost always automatically good to them. I've used that as a first step, when possible, when they've refused to try something.

Heather, do you think I should add greens to Hunter's soup or is the pumpkin enough?

[Heather]

I would think that perhaps at the moment, the pumpkin might be what he needs. Once he starts putting on weight, and goes longer between crisis, I would be tempted to try him on the greens. It would offer him a switch from the pumpkin thus allowing you to use the pumpkin for more dire needs. That being said, considering Hunter's prognosis, I don't think there would be anything wrong with allowing him to continue to eat pumpkin as his veggie. I know that Ghengis is ok with either pumpkin or any of the winter squashes, but again, that's a trial and error thing
ciao

[weloveourweasels]

Aug 29, 2009 12:36:38 GMT -5 ferretdroogies said:

Very interesting!

There is another product that's similar from For Ferrets Only called PetiGreens www.craftycreatures.com/forferretsonly/health/petigreens.html

Reading the ingredients of this I am pretty sure I can go out and buy all that in equal ammounts and freeze it then chop it up and throw it in the blender and voila homemade petigreens!

This has nothing to do with veggies, but I was wondering if he knows anything about supplementing ferrets with glandulars and if it might help with insulinoma and adrenal. I know it's used in dogs and cats that have endocrine diseases, but not sure about ferrets. The theory is that you are making up for the lacking or diseased gland by supplementing with it. www.craftycreatures.com/forferretsonly/health/petglandular.htm

That looks interesting and is something I am considering

Also, I do already supplement the floofs with kelp for the benefits it has for animals with endocrine diseases (even hyperadrenocortism or "cushings" in dogs and cats). This makes me feel even better about using it after reading this

Wysong makes lots of supplements for carnivores that include small amount of plant matter as well. Now only if Wysong Archetype didn't make Pandora barf

Perhaps you can try Pingford's Porridge red! www.pingfordsporridge.com/

What about bee pollen? I've always wondered if they could benefit from a very small amount. I found a great supplement that would be good for ferrets too. It's called Wholistic Organics Feline Complete (I also use the kelp from this company for the floofs) www.thewholisticpet.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=561&ParentCat=50

Nupro is made for ferrets and has bee pollan in it. Perhaps you could use it instead of the feline stuff. www.nuprostore.com/nuproferret.html

You can buy it here
www.ferret.com/item/nupro-1lb-ferret-supplement/670050/

If you contact thecompany and let them know all the animals you have they will usually send samples for each of them. www.nuprostore.com/contact.htm

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I have to go, but I will post more later since this is very interesting

EDIT:
Here's the other "green" supplements I found

Wysong Wild Things www.wysong.net/products/wildthings-dog-cat-supplement.php

Halo Daily Greens (can get at Petco!) shop.halopets.com/Pet-Supplements/VitaGlo-Daily-Greens

I have seen these before at EarthFare. I wonder how much for one ferret.

I forgot where I read it, but apparently ferrets were more deficient in L-arginine than taurine, even though I think taurine should be supplemented as well.

This is the reason I will be supplementing my guys with Wysong Call of the Wild and Wholistic Organics Feline Complete. The Hare Today Simply Raw supplement look interesting as well for the same reasons.

The hare today stuff does look intriging but I think it would cost too much. The Call of the Wild looks like you get more for your money.

Sometimes I let the floofs like the bottle cap after shaking up one of these two superfood drinks I get all the time (Naked Juice Superfood Green Machine and Odwalla Original Superfood)
www.nakedjuice.com/#OurJuices/Background/MainMenu/Families/Superfood/bottle2









[/quote]

[valkyriestorm]

Wow, so now it is safe to feed my boys ground meat that has greens in it. I have been feeding my boys Primal Grinds without the organic greens. Sometimes at my work we are out of the Meat only grinds and there are only ones with greens in it.