Switching Ozymandias

[ccretarolo]

1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems (this is VERY important)?
Only one. His name is Ozymandias or Ozzy. He's obviously a male, is about 8 weeks old, and has no health problems that I know of.

2. What are your ferrets currently eating? Include their main diet, plus any treats or supplements (such as duk soup).
I just brought him home today and he's already eaten some boiled chicken on the way home and some ground pork when he got home.

3. What kind of diet do you want to switch to?
I would like to have him primarily eating RMB's and whole prey with some chunks of boneless meat and offal.

4. Why do you want to switch to this more natural diet?
2 of my 3 cats are already eating a raw diet.

5. Where/what/who got you interested in natural diets?
Hermes (8 month old kitten) seemed to be developing IBD so I ran across natural feeding when I was trying to find a way to make him more comfortable.

6. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?
He weighs around 11 ounces and seems a little skinny.

7. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)
I haven't had a chance to look at his teeth. He's been through enough stress today without me prying his mouth open.

8. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.
He's a dark brown sable with a cute little mask. He has a really fuzzy, fluffy coat but it could be a bit softer.

9. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?
He's only gone once in the hour and a half that he's been here

10. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?
Not very much.

11. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?
Not too bad. No more than any other pet store kit.

12. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?
I would say a 6 right now since he just finished eating.

13. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?
I don't know since I haven't given him kibble. He loves his raw food though and feeding den though.

14. Have you attempted to switch from kibble to a natural diet in the past? If so, what methods have you tried. Be specific.
I just put some raw in his bowl and he dragged into the den I have in his cage.

15. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?
He seems to have a slightly prolasped rectum so I want to wait until that goes away until I incorporate bone.

16. If you can, please post a clear photograph of EACH of your ferrets directly below:


17.

a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch at least every other day?**
Yes

b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers)via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's saftey during the switch?
Yes

c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explaination as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?***
Yes

[ccretarolo]

I gave Ozzy some ground chicken hearts with slices of gizzard this morning. He's already a natural cacher since he stayed in his den long enough for me to be convinced that he had eaten after the first half of his meal. This evening I'm going to see what he does with a chicken wing tip

I'm so happy with him. He hasn't missed the litter box yet and he seems ready to teach Hermes a lesson when they get their face to face meeting. He also already hesitates when he's feeling nippy so I've been able to pull away my hand most of the time.

I will admit that I'm concerned about introducing Ozzy and Hermes. Hermes is about 9 pounds of pure muscle while Ozzy weighs less than a pound and doesn't seem to have much muscle tone.

[ccretarolo]

I had my niece over today and she insisted on feeding Ozzy. Her mom (my sister) doesn't want to feed raw to her ferrets but I'm still glad that my niece can have the experience of seeing a ferret eat what it's supposed to.

Just wondering, when am I going to get a mentor? I really want to be sure that I'm feeding the right meats to him.

[Heather]

I"m just popping in to give you a hand until Giuli finds you a mentor (that may be tonight ) but for now I will help you out Little kits are wonderfully easy to switch because they're still trying and tasting everything.
Sounds like your little Ozzy is bearing out that statement He should be able to chew nicely on that wing tip. I found my guys aren't fond of wing tips but prefer the more meatier wings, but definitely try the wing tips they offer a good chew to sharp little teeth
It's good that you have the opportunity to teach a child about what your ferret should be eating. If you sister is concerned about her daughter handling raw meat, offer some gloves and perhaps the child can help prepare the food for her new friend
Might I add a word of warning in regards to introducing Ozzy to Hermes. Your kitty could do some severe damage to your ferret at this point in time (even later). I certainly wouldn't allow them to play unsupervised. Both animals have the ability of being deadly hunters. I don't doubt that they can and will become great friends. My cats, I have 2, socialize with the ferrets. Merlyn has done some serious damage to a couple of the ferrets, he's also Napoleon's ultimate snuggle pal.

Unfortunately, Merlyn and Mad Max have an ongoing war. A truce has only been called because Mad Max is smart enough to see reason, finally; that a 3 lbs ferret cannot take on a 20 lbs cat, no matter how smart or stealthy. He learned this only after 1 surgery (to stitch up a split tongue, caused by a claw) and the loss of an eye. Just remember though a ferret's skin is tough, a cat's claws and teeth are meant to do severe damage and kill too.
I will keep checking in on you and answering your questions until Giuli has supplied you with a mentor There may also be others who hop in too but you won't be alone
ciao

[ccretarolo]

Thanks. My sister doesn't care too much about my niece handling raw meat since she already helps cook at home. I'm just going to be very strict about proper hand washing since she's very mature for a 7 year old. Ozzy is also very open to hand feeding so she got to give him a few chunks of meat and got a kick out of him running into his den as soon as he grabbed it from her. I'm also hoping that this will teach him that hands are good things although he's pretty good about not nipping.

I ended up giving him a third of a wing (the segment with the tip) and he was able to eat most of it. It took him about 20 minutes but he ate a little bone and all of the meat off of it. I also gave him a small chunk of liver which he also loved. I left a couple of small beef chunks as a snack for the next time he wakes up so we'll see how he likes that.

I had a bit of a scare this morning since I saw green poop in the litter box though. Luckily, his poop is now either dark brown or black and is much smaller and firmer than it was last night.

I've already made a mistake though. I assumed that the bottle I got him would be fine but it ends up that it's way too big for him. I also have a bowl of water out for him but he doesn't seem too interested in it. I'm going to set out a shallower bowl for the water and hope that he decides to drink more until I can go get a smaller bottle.

As for cat introductions... I was hoping to wait a few days but Hermes managed to slip in the room when my bf came in before heading off to work. Ozzy nipped him a couple of times but that didn't deter Hermes in the least bit. I'm going to keep all interaction between them very strictly supervised and I'm going to try and teach Hermes that he's going to be kicked out of the ferret room when he starts harassing the baby. I also have to keep the door to the ferret room closed while I'm sleeping since Hermes likes laying on top on the cage and batting at Ozzy when he goes up on the shelf. I'm having a friend over tomorrow night who Hermes doesn't like so I'm going to have him sleep in the ferret room to keep Hermes away.

Also, I have a vet appointment scheduled for him on tuesday afternoon. I want to verify his age and possibly get him a distemper booster (it will be his last distemper shot unless titers suggest otherwise) if the vet feels it's appropriate. I don't want to vaccinate him but I know that I'll want to take him out on walks when he gets older so the shots are a necessary evil.

[Heather]

Vaccinating is a personal thing. I don't and haven't in over 10 yrs. None of my furbabies get vaccinated, but I've done a lot of research, had a couple of scares so nevermore. All my guys travel with me and play outdoors at my place (they have access to an outdoor play area that they can go to at will). This is something that no one but you can make a decision on. It's just how I do it.
Remember that your furbaby isn't going to drink near as much once you stop feeding kibbles. They still need water but most of their moisture comes from their meats. That's why when they get sick they're much better able to handle an illness than kibble fed ferrets. I never use bottles, they all have water bowls (yes they get played in, the dog's water bowl is used as a swimming hole ). Kibble keeps a carnivore at the brink of dehydration, so you are going to see a huge difference once they start eating raw.
The green loose poopies may have been the result of a little too much liver (it can also come out jet black and tarry, a little too much blood ) Welcome to the world of natural feeding, multi coloured poopies are the tone of the day.
You and your little one are doing awesome. Try to get as many different types of protein into your little guy, when he's young. It take a minimum of 3 types of protein sources to keep a healthy raw fed carnivore. You're well on your way. You may want to start thinking of writing up a menu (weekly) so that you can keep track of what your furbaby likes and doesn't also sits and what doesn't. How much you feed him might also be an idea as then you can keep track of how much you need. I have no idea as to how much each individual ferret eats here, so I use "hug" testing (keeping track of 15 free roaming ferrets at the dinner bowl is way too difficult ) Even though, I do know if I haven't seen someone at the bowl
I think for the moment anyway, it's probably wise not to allow Hermes free access to your little one. I'm sure his intent is only play but cats play with their food and your little one is still too small to deal with a cat, even a larger kitten.
I will check in with you tonight and see how things are going. Good work, talk at you later.
ciao

[ccretarolo]

Ozzy did the war dance! For about a minute straight! He likes plastic mechanical pencils... I took the eraser and the lead out of course but that was actually pretty surprising. At this point though, his favorite toy seems to be the little mouse on a bungee cord (it's a CFA brand toy) that's in his cage. I got up early this morning and let him out to play for an hour straight. He's been dead asleep for about 3 hours now. He's so much more outgoing and energetic now! Though that does include a lot more nipping from him and scolding from me. At least he hasn't missed the litter box... Yet

I'm going to leave some in bone chicken out for him this afternoon since I have a job interview and won't be getting home until 5 or 6 this evening. I'm going to need to give some soaked kibble along with ground meat tonight. I don't want to but it looks like I may be going to my cousin's wedding in LA next month. That will leave the bf feeding the animals for 3-4 days and he really doesn't know what he's doing with raw and he has no desire to learn.

I've also noticed that when I introduced other meats, Ozzy decided that he didn't like pork so much. I think I'll give him some for breakfast tomorrow just to double check that theory of mine. He's chomping down on pieces of meat the same size of his head so I'm hoping that whole prey won't be an issue when I can get some for him. I really don't want to buy Petco feeder mice but the local providers want large orders. I'll figure out my moral conundrum soon enough though.

Here's what I've given Ozzy so far

Wednesday: 2 Tb boiled chicken, 1 ounce ground pork, 1 ounce ground chicken heart w/ sliced gizzards.

Thursday: 1 ounce hearts with gizzards, 1" piece of chicken liver, 1/3 of chicken wing, 2 ounces of beef chucks.

Friday: Raw egg (didn't go over too well), 1 ounce beef chunks, 1/3 of chicken wing, 1/8 cup soaked EVO kibble. I may end up changing this around a bit but this is my plan for today. I'll keep this updated for reference purposes and for any suggestions.

[Heather]

Curious....why the boiled chicken? Why not raw? Not, being negative just curious
As far as the boyfriend goes, create little packages for him to give your little one. Freeze them and then give him a schedule. I've gone as far as numbering them and giving a schedule (that way the caregiver doesn't even have to think ). No 1 is fed in the morning, No 2 fed at lunch and so on. If you're more comfortable keep the kibble in the cage with Ozzy but continue feeding the raw. He's doing fantastic. You may actually have him eating all raw before you leave for LA.
As far as raw egg, I only have 3 or 4 of my guys who will eat it on the straight up. If I mix it with the meat then everyone loves it, but like people ferrets have their likes and dislikes too
Looks to me like you have things right in hand. Looking good. I will check in with you later and see how things are going
ciao

[ccretarolo]

I don't plan on leaving it in the cage with him. I'm planning on giving him soupies containing softened kibble every other night. That way, he can have the taste imprinted in the case of an emergency.

The reason for the boiled chicken was that I gave it to him while we were on the way home from the pet shop. It was pretty warm out so I didn't want to take a baggie of raw meat with me. I also hate wasting food and the chicken was left over from making broth .

I think I'm going to step things back a bit when it comes to bone though. I gave him the middle section of a chicken wing to gnaw on while I was gone and it was barely touched when I got home. It was split down the middle for him as well.

He has a soupie in the cage with him right now. It's 1/8 cup kibble with 4 small chunks of beef ground together with 3 tablespoons home made chicken broth and 1 teaspoon of olive oil. It's really more of a mush than a soup since he eats on the shelf and I only have one shelf cover which will need to be washed if he were to tip over a bowl full of soupie. He seems to enjoy it though.

The big issue with my bf feeding raw is that he doesn't wake up until around 1 to get to work at 2:30. He then doesn't get off until midnight. He also has a bad habit of putting things off as long as possible so I know I would come home to a cage full of days old stashed goodies... Not my idea of a welcome home present. I'm not totally sure if I'm even going yet so drilling him on proper cleanup and feeding times will be dependent on that.

I've also decided that I'm most likely going to just have a water bowl out for Ozzy. He was hesitant to use it at first but he seems to have gotten used to it. It doesn't seem like he enjoys playing in the water though.

[ccretarolo]

The kibble mush didn't go over too well. He licked at it a little bit but it seems that he wants food he can chew on. He also insists on eating his breakfast outside of his cage. This morning it was 1/2 ounce of beef and 1 ounce of ground pork. This kid is a little porker.

I just find it amazing how much energy the little boy has. His morning play session lasts for about an hour or until he passes out. Then he sleeps for 3 hours and then plays for another hour. He also gets 2 evening play sessions with both me and Daddy before we all go to bed. I would guess that he's already getting close to 4 hours out of cage time every day. He loves playing with us and is slowly learning that his new Mommy and Daddy don't like being nipped. My bf's toes are just too irresistible to him though.

Also, it looks like Hermes and Ozzy will not be interacting at all until Ozzy gets bigger. We had a scare after Hermes pounced on Ozzy and the little guy was favoring one of his back legs. He's walking fine now but one scare like that is more than enough for me. Sadly, Hermes took after my bf's old cat and became a bit of a bully.

It's time for me to go back to bed now. Ozzy already has me wrapped around his paw . I don't normally go to bed until 3 in the morning but I've started getting up at 6 am to feed him breakfast and for his first play session... I think I need to change my sleeping patterns .

[Heather]

Sounds to me like he knows what's good for him . If you want him to continue with kibbles, I would just feed him kibbles, never mind the mushy stuff. None of my guys ever get kibbles even when ill, Napoleon wouldn't have a clue about even eating it. In fact seemed to think it was for throwing around the room, then I had a couple of boarder ferrets. I found that when feeding raw, once they get the taste of real food, they're not all that fond of the mushy stuff. You can create a soupy mix (I've used raw and I've used baby food mixed with carnivore care) and start them on that. I've never had an issue about them taking it, though I have resorted to syringe feedings. Normally, in a case like that they wouldn't have been eating kibbles anyway.
I can understand your feelings about not wanting to leave the bf in charge of the raw diet while you're away...but your little Ozzy may have his own ideas about it
That's the problems with little kits and bigger kittens....kits become prey, even if it's a game. I agree with your decision, rather than have heart break or at least a vet bill, keep Ozzy and Hermes apart. There may indeed come a time when you can let them play together but not yet.
I will check in with you later and see how things are going.
ciao

[ccretarolo]

So, I've given Ozzy about 2 ounces of ground pork (I forgot to mention that I add fish oil and olive oil to my ground meats) and a third of a wing. He still didn't seem too interested in the bone in so I cut a wing segment into smaller pieces to make it less intimidating. He's already gnawed through one piece but he's so tired that I think he's going to save the rest for later. I also left 1/2 ounce of chopped up gizzards on his plate (I feed him and give him water off of a saucer since he was having problems with the bowls I have for him).

He's also taken to climbing up on my shoulder and curling up in my hair when he gets tired. It's so adorable. I need to borrow my dad's camera so I can take some decent pictures of him.

[Heather]

Oh, do post some pics. They're so sweet and full of energy at this age . They also have a habit of just crashing and sleeping so soundly, at least Napoleon did. Perhaps the bone was too large for him (or at least intimidating) as he seems to be chowing on it quite well now. Don't be surprised that these bones are kept and stashed and gnawed on for quite some time. Think about your dog with a bone, they don't gnaw in quite the same manner but it is similar and it does help when those little "toofies" get sore when they start cutting teeth. Better the chicken wings than your toes and fingers
I will check in with you again tomorrow and see how your little one is doing
ciao

[ccretarolo]

So, Ozzy ate half of a chicken neck while I was sleeping! I had actually cut it down to more manageable pieces for him. He hasn't gotten around to the bones but they're all in his stash box.

I laid out 1 1/2 ounces of my ground chicken mix for him (3 parts hearts, 1 part breast meat with olive oil and powdered eggshell). He's developing quite the prodigious pot belly from all of this eating .

Also, his butt is doing much better. I started treating his prolapsed rectum with hemorrhoid cream yesterday and I'm hoping that will help.

[Heather]

Sounds like he's doing very well . Good work, excellent job. They do seem to put on weight if they need to on this diet . If you don't see results with the hemorroid cream you may want to take him to the vet and see if there's an underlying issue.
Keep me posted
ciao