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Post by gan on Apr 21, 2009 9:12:48 GMT -5
Hey, I'm brainstorming ways to breed mice to save on costs, but mostly to be able to supply my little fert with more live or at least frozen prey more often and hopefully keep things around the same price they are now.
Unfortunately I cannot keep them in my apartment, the community official folks would have heart attacks and sue me for the medical bills. I also can't keep them at my boyfriend's place because his roommate happens to own the house he's renting in, and does not want the smell in the house. Of course I could not tell her they would not smell, because it would be a lie.
I live in Florida, so it never really gets too cold for mice to survive, but what about hot? I'm good with a nailgun/screwdriver and wood, so I could build them a shade structure easily.
Here are my major questions: 1. Will they reproduce too much slower in the heat, or just all die from heat stroke? (70-85 degrees lately) 2. Any suggestions for keeping Racoons away? I've had pet bunnies shreded to death by those wicked little paws before, so I'm sure they could do a number on mice if I don't properly protect them 3. Any suggestions on a cheaper alternative to housing them than cages? Originally I planned to use those convenient drawer-like stackable rubbermaids, but if they'll be outside any reflected sunlight seems like it might turn one of those into a little mousie green house, So I'll need another choice (unless you have any experience using them outdoors without incidence of overheating?
Adios amigos, Gan
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Post by harrisi on Apr 21, 2009 9:56:08 GMT -5
Generally they do ok in heat, what is the average hottest it gets over there? You can use frozen water bottles in the day for them to lay against if they get too hot, give them a water bowl to bathe in etc.. Secure housing. Will they be in a shed or something?? Tubs are ok outdoors as long as they are kept in the shade...and with good ventilation (ie. a total mesh top...which they should have whether indoors or outdoors).
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Post by Kerit on Apr 21, 2009 18:43:52 GMT -5
I have been considering keeping mice outside myself... except not only will it probably get too hot here in the summer, summer only lasts four months anyway and then I'd have below zero temps to deal with. Plus raccoons and weasels and coyotes, and the bears that already come to the bird feeders... meh.
So, I thought I could maybe keep a small mouse population in the garage for the warmer half of the year, then feed the whole batch to the ferts and start over in the spring.
I would think the tubs would be okay outdoors if you could secure them... definitely a roof for rain and shade, surrounded by chicken wire or hardware cloth.
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Post by bluedove on Apr 21, 2009 20:00:26 GMT -5
The key to prevent the green house effect is to ventilate the tubs well. I prefer the type that have latching lids and I ventilate them with 1/4" hardware cloth. As long as you provide nice big "windows" of the hardware cloth, it shouldn't build up any heat. Using a deep layer of soil that they can dig down into will also help keep them cool. I would also build a shaded wooden structure surrounded by wire of some kind to keep the wild-life at bay.
It's certainly do-able... though I expect it would be more difficult to keep track of the pregnancies and the litters, etc. Will you be able to tend them daily still if they are kept outside?
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Post by gan on Apr 22, 2009 3:32:06 GMT -5
all great tips! thankyou, this is literally just the sort of information i was looking for. As for the shed question- No I would be building them a wind/sun shelter with just a top and a side to protect them during our big bad summer storms I already know where to get some good "raccoon proofing" fencing material for the outer enclosure, and the soil idea for digging in to cool down is so perfect and natural it's kind of sad I would never have even thought of it. They would be checked daily, I'd certainly have temperature gauges in a few of the tubs to make sure they weren't getting roasted, but i would only be doing the checking two of seven days. My boyfriend would be responsible for the "school week". While I'm over there this weekend I'll iron things out with him to make sure he really wants to make the commitment for my ferret (and his, if he ever gets one as he's been dreaming) I'll check out materials, where would be the best shady spot to put them, and come up with what I hope will be a good design for the bulding bit of the project. Any ideas on how large? I mean, I'm hoping for a colony large enough to make a big dent in the Fert's diet, I don't know how many breeders that entails! If I want to have at least 7 adults a week by the time they're all situated and working in a fairly even pattern, how many am I gonna want breeding at a time? Once i know that I'll be able to figure out the total number of cages I'll need and I'll how bulky the whole area's gonna be. Then again, I could always build it bigger than I'm going to need it anyways, in case I end up expanding- it would be a pain to have to go building a whole new enclosure if... say, the cats started catching on to the glory of mice
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Post by harrisi on Apr 22, 2009 4:16:10 GMT -5
Also - marble slab. Dont get hot in the sun so the mice can sit on them to cool down. As for breeding adults - with needing 7 adults a week, you could risk it and have 7 adults breeding but then you could also have 10 and not have the risk of running out. If your going to be needed 7 mice adults a week, I wouldnt bother though. It takes about 5 months for mice to get to adults size and they eat alot so you would probably be best getting rats and culling them at 8 weeks and using 2-ish 8 week old rats as opposed to 7 adult mice. Are you feeding live/fresh killed or are you OK with feeding FT?
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Post by bluedove on Apr 22, 2009 14:51:44 GMT -5
harrisi has a point, setting all this up will be fairly expensive, at least in the beginning. It will take a rather long while before you will be able to offset the start up costs and actually begin to see some savings. You might do better financially to invest in a good freezer and order rodents in bulk.
But if you're like me... I want to raise my own so I trust what goes into them and have the added bonus to offer live for hunting. Assuming you will be using a harem breeding style (where you house males with females full time and they breed again immediately after the doe gives birth... this requires the least daily maintenance... and produces maximum yield) you can estimate that each doe will produce 1 litter of ~10 pups per month, but it's best to cull and feed from the litters as soon as you can sex them. (makes for less stress on the moms and the remaining pups get more milk and grow healthier) So assuming you cull and feed the males at 9 days old, we then estimate 5 pups per doe, per month. So to produce a minimum of 7 per week, you would need at least 6 breeding does.
Also, I would be less concerned about feeding adults. You do want to be sure they get SOME adults in their diet (maybe 1-3 per week) as the young are not as rich in certain nutrients (like calcium)... but the younger you feed them, the less $$ you have to put into them before you feed them. I think the easiest way to to have as many adults to feed as often as possible would be to replace and then feed your breeders frequently. I'll look at those numbers later when I have a bit more time.
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Post by harrisi on Apr 22, 2009 15:58:27 GMT -5
Assuming you will be using a harem breeding style (where you house males with females full time and they breed again immediately after the doe gives birth... this requires the least daily maintenance... and produces maximum yield) Keep in mind, this isn't always true as does that are constantly bred from tend to have smaller, less quality litters. Also 6+ week old rats have the same calcium (give or take a little) as an adult mouse.
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Post by bluedove on Apr 22, 2009 17:26:01 GMT -5
Also 6+ week old rats have the same calcium (give or take a little) as an adult mouse. Really? Rats really would be ideal then... How do you get the nutritional info on various ages of different types of feeders and such anyway?
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Post by harrisi on Apr 23, 2009 13:52:23 GMT -5
Also 6+ week old rats have the same calcium (give or take a little) as an adult mouse. Really? Rats really would be ideal then... How do you get the nutritional info on various ages of different types of feeders and such anyway? Yep. Our ex-vet (has retired ) is/was a raw feeding supporter and had charts up in the office, he now gets the updated charts for me. RodentPro have a chart for their vert.s but it is a little outdated...
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