Newbie starting switch

[wffr]

1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems (this is VERY important)?

I run a ferret shelter/rescue. I presently have 9 permanent residents that I want to switch over. ;D
In order of age:
Sprite-5.5 years old-Male, chronic uti's and ear infections since he was 4 months old.
Bugz-4.5 years old-Male, no known health problems.
Pepper-?4.5 years old-Male, Possible Adrenal problems
Kipper-4 years old-male, no known health issues.
KC-3 years old- female-no known heath problems.
Twilight-2.5 years old-Female-loaded with tumors and adrenal tumors.
Flower-2 years old-Female-no known problems
Zoom Zoom-1.5 years old-Female-no known problems
Denali - 8 months old-male - chronic uti's
(The last three were spayed or neutered after 6 months of age).
In hospice care:
Jimmy -7-8 years old- Male- tumors everywhere
Whisper-9 years old-Female- Insulinoma.
Up for adoption:
Dakota - 4-6 years old - Female- shedding tail twice a year
Sassafrass-4-5 years old-Female-has had adrenal tumor, pin and plate put in leg for severe break, possible insulinoma

2. What do you feed, main diet and supplements?

They presently eat, chicken and turkey baby food (8 will eat this), ground mice (well only 1 eat this-Denali), Bugz, KC and sometimes Twilight will my soup that includes: a mixture of 1/2 cup kibble (evo) and 2 cups of ping-ford's porridge red, AFS kitty sprinkles about a cup, 4 oz of ferretone and 1/2 pkg carnivore care (oxbow), blown up in the blender with luke warm water until thick and smooth. Pour into jars and freeze. Dakota, Jimmy and Whisper eat this every evening. The others get it every other day.
It depends on whether I am feeding or my partner or daughter is feeding.
Everyone's main diet is EVO.

3. What kind of diet do you want to switch to?

I would eventually like to get to whole prey, however because I share these guys with my partner who is not whole prey savvy, nor does she want to be, I will start with raw, meaty bones, etc...

4. Why do you want to switch to this more natural diet?

We have lost 18 ferrets in the last 2 years, to cancers. I want it to stop. I need to make an effort with our permanent residents (ferts) as well as with our dogs to make sure they are healthy, not dying from cancer or tooth decay or whatever but I would prefer they die from old age. Old age being older than the average of 6-8 years.
I am also going to school to be a vet tech on line and the more I read about natural diets for other animals the more I want to continue to change my guys over.

5. Where/what/who got you interested in natural diets?

My first introduction was through ping-fords porridge as I wanted to add more meat into my very fussy ferrets lives. Hence the porridge I make.
Then I was truly introduced to it this past Christmas on the ferret giving tree, when my rescue received enormous amounts of dehydrated raw food from Caseyshiddenpantry and we have just run out of that. My guys that would eat that stuff, look healthier, their breath doesn't stink anymore and they have more energy then they have had.

6. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?

Sprite-1.6# -skinny -good muscle tone, but underweight
Bugz-2.3#-skinny-good muscle tone, but slightly underweight
Pepper-2.6#-not skinny-good muscle tone, just right weight, I think
Kipper-2.2#-skinny, coat is gorgeous, very good muscle tone.
Flower-2.6#hefty, excellent muscle tone, (ex McKay Ferret) Great weight.
Zoom Zoom - 2.1#hefty, excellent muscle tone (ex McKay Ferret), slightly skinny
KC - 1.4# very skinny, good muscle tone, needs weight on
Twilight-2.2# - somewhat skinny, fair muscle tone, needs alittle more weight on her.
Denali- 4.2# very hefty- great muscle tone, appears overweight.
Dakota-3.1# very hefty-good muscle tone, appears good
Sassafrass 1.2# very skinny-poor muscle tone-needs weight on her

7. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)

Sprite-has medium gum disease
Bugz-has medium gum disease
Pepper-has awful gum disease
Kipper-has awful gum disease
KC-has light gum disease
Twilight has light gum disease
Flower-has light gum disease
Zoom Zoom has light gum disease
Denali-has no gum disease
Dakota-has awful gum disease
Sassafrass-has awful gum disease

8. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.

Jimmy is naked and his fur that is left is brittle. He used to champagne.
Pepper has short fur that is medium soft Dark dew
Sprite has longer fur that is getting to be luxurious is a champagne
Bugz has shorter fur that is getting to be luxurious, he is a sable mitt.
Kipper dude won first place last year in a show due to his coat, which is long, soft and luxurious. Kip is a black sable, no mitts
Twilight's coat is also long, soft and luxurious and she is a dew
Kc's coat is smooth,soft and getting better every day, Kc is a champagne panda point.
Denali still has baby fur, so if he wasn't such a lover, I might make him into a muff (just kidding of course) Denali is a champagne panda, mitt, point.
Flower and Zoom Zoom have short hair that is soft and fine.
Flower is a Sable, Panda, Mitt
Zoom Zoom is a champagne Panda point
Dakota has very brittle hair still she is light sable
Whisper is a dark silver and she has very soft hair but is extremely skinny, with no muscle tone
Sassafrass has very short, some what brittle coat, she is a cinnamon panda.


9. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?

My ferrets go anywhere from 4 times a day to 8 times a day.

10. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?

Yes, horrible. Especially, Sprite, Twilight, Pepper, Dakota, Jimmy and Whisper.

11. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?

Sprite is not so strong
Bugz is not so strong
Pepper is quite strong
Kip has no odor
Twilight has a strong odor
KC has no odor
Denali has a strong odor
Flower has a strong odor
Zoom zoom has a strong odor
Jimmy has a strong odor
Dakota ha a strong odor
Whisper has a strong odor
and Sassy has a strong odor.

12. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?
Sprite: 3
Bugz: 4
Pepper: 4
Kipper: 5
Twilight: 6
KC: 6
Denali: 9
Flower: 8
Zoom Zoom: 8
Dakota: 4
Jimmy: 2
Whisper: 2
Sassafrass: 5

13. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?

Not very!

14. Have you attempted to switch from kibble to a natural diet in the past? If so, what methods have you tried. Be specific.
No

15. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?

If I were to only switch over 3 ferrets at this time it would be Flower, Zoom Zoom and Denali.

They are not Marshall's ferrets or other large breeders. They each are fixed and not descented, all three are in excellent health and I know with a little convincing they will switch, however the others all are so imprinted on kibble I don't know if they will switch or not.
Flower, Zoom Zoom and Denali still have their scent glands, each of them were fixed well beyond 4 months.

Sprite has had chronic problems, since he was given to me 5.2 years ago. UTI's and ear infections are his biggest problems now, but he has experienced mouth ulcers, stomach ulcers, etc...

Twilight had an ultrasound and she was found to have many a tumor in her, to get them all would kill her.

Pepper is starting to show signs of adrenal disease.


16. If you can, please post a clear photograph of EACH of your ferrets directly below:

Can't get them to load, at this time.


17.

a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch at least every other day?**

Yes!

b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers)via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's safety during the switch?

Yes

c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explanation as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?***

Yes
I have read and understand the rules listed on the other page/

WFF- Michelle Dev's Warm Fuzzies Ferret Rescue

**Note 1: If you are unable to make it to a computer (such as on weekends) please indicate below so we know whether you just don't have computer access or if you have gone MIA.

***Note 2: If you would like to try the switch again and you are committed to making regular updates you ARE welcome to restart your thread. Failure to provide regular updates will result in the deletion of your thread.

[wffr]

Just a quick note to say that Sprite ate a little baby food today with AFS sprinkles in it, that is a huge step for him, as he just doesn 't appear to want to eat anything out of the ordinary for him.
Denali had fresh ground hamburger today to see how he would do on raw, besides his devouring the ground mouse. He did really well, devoured the hamburger like a champ.
Everyone else sniffed it and just walked away, including Flower and Zoom Zoom.
Guess I had high hopes for those two, maybe it won't be so easy afterall.
Michelle DeVos
Warm Fuzzies Ferret Rescue

[Heather]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi
I'm Heather, and we're going to be working together for the next little while trying to convince your furbabies to change to a healthier diet
I've been feeding a raw/natural diet for a little over 11 yrs. I have a small private sanctuary/hospice, just outside of Toronto where all ferrets turned into me are switched immediately over to a raw diet that consists of ground raw/whole meats or frankenprey/ and prey diet. At present every ferret (except my two newest, Captain Jack and Calypso) eats this full range of diets. They're just starting to sample whole foods, so I'm pleased with their progress. Little Calypso (less than a pound) was so depressed that I honestly thought I would lose her and is only just this week really eating well enough that I'm not supplementing her diet. I don't keep kibbles in the house. All my furbabies are free roaming and have access to an outdoor play area that they can access at will (this morning they're all playing outside in the snow, they're going to be tired little furbrats today . At present there are 16 little fuzzbutts who call this their permanent home. They range in ages of about 2 yrs to my little senior citizen, Babushka who is coming up on 10 yrs (she by the way has been my biggest raw switch challenge, which had me at times wondering why I was doing this to her) Now completely switched and putting on a beautiful dark black coat, teeth that are now nicely cleaned up, and she actually has a lot of fun investigating the house (she used to do nothing but sleep when she first was turned in). She has made me aware that every ferret no matter how old, can get a new lease on life by eating a species appropriate diet. I presently have Aremis who was diagnosed with lymphoma last Feb/March and who is now showing signs of adrenal and my old guy Mad Max who is also showing some signs of adrenal as my at risk group.
I noticed that you have your guys eating a soupy all ready. Great stuff, we're just going to make use of your soupy to start the switch. Nine ferrets will be a challenge, because you're probably going to find yourself with little ones in different places during the switch. When I helped another lady switch 7 furbabies we tried to keep everyone relatively close in the switching just to make it easier so that there weren't a dozen different meals going at once....well seven anyway
As you're already feeding soupy, I'm thinking the easiest way to switch everyone is to make use of something they already know. I use this method to switch finicky cats, so it might work to switch some finicky ferrets
You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:

8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat)
1 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder)
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver

You're going to use this as your starter. So all you do is make your soupy and add (to start) just a tiny bit of this recipe to your regular soupy.... Do your guys all eat their own soupy or do you do a mass feeding? Anyway, the tiny bit would be less than a tsp. It shouldn't be enough to even change the taste or texture. Just enough that they'll be able to go...hmmm...different.....Naw and eat. You do this for a couple of days. Then you add a tsp more. Eventually, you work it so that you've replaced their soupies with your raw mixture.
With your little Denali, keep introducing raw meats. I would seriously try and see if he would try a chicken wing. Not the tip, but the plump lower piece. Score the meat and offer it to him. Play a game of tug with it if he shows no interest.
Anyway, rather than totally overwhelm the situation, I"m going to leave you with this information to mull over. I will check on you later today and see if you have any questions. Good luck and welcome to your newest adventure
ciao

[wffr]

Heather,
I will try to do better at keeping in touch. I am going to school to be a VET TECH online, 3x as hard as going to school and I also work part time in a very traditional vet's office (when it comes it comes to dry verses raw), however, I got the new vet by asking her why she feeds pinkies to her frog, why not that dry frog food that all the pet stores have. She stated he needs meat if he was in the wild then he would be eating meat and insects and such and I said yeah, so would the ferrets and the dogs, if they were in the 'wild' I mean.
I am also going to attempt to make them an outdoor play area this spring/summer maybe you have some ideas?
Back to raw. I have one ferret whose parents were fed pinkies on a regular daily/weekly schedule and he already will eat just about anything raw I put in front of him.
I have 13 ferrets all permanent residents because they are either sick(hospice) or they are so bonded with others that are ill that they can not be adopted out. The 9 have become personal ferrets over the years but originally they were all rescued at some point.
I have 4 in a seperate cage that are old and sick. 3 with adrenal and 1 with insulinoma. The three with adrenal are Dakota, Jimmy *naked*, Sassafrass and Whisper has insulinoma.
The 7 I have in one area of two FN cages placed side to side, are Sprite (he is showing signs of adrenal), Bugz (very healthy), Pepper (showing signs of adrenal), Kipper dude (very healthy),
Twilight (has multiple tumors seen via an ultrasound), KC sue (very healthy) and Denali (4.5 pounds at 7.5 months old and already eating raw. Then the two ex-McKay girls (Flower and ZoomZoom who are easier then the Marshall ferrets to switch to whatever I want them to eat-sometimes). I have 4 more on the way and will be picking them up on 7th and 8th of March.
I have just ordered a bunch of food from Caseyshiddenpantry.com who has all the freeze dried foods available for cheap, Hare-today.com (raw food ground), Wysong.com (raw freeze dried or dehydrated) and Pingsfordporridge.com (which is what my soupy is made from).
Those all except the PP should be here by the beginning of next week.
thanks I will do better, but please forgive me as I am attempting to manage a life full of things to do and little space left for anything else to do.
Michelle and the zoo

[Heather]

That's OK, no need to apologize. Life does indeed have a way of getting in the way of living
That's great that you have one furbaby who eats raw, so that means we only have to convince 8 other little ones that meat is indeed a food group It's great that you've decided to use hare today premixes to start. It means that we don't have to worry too much about balance, we only have to worry about convincing the furry little bums .
It's great, I'm looking forward to start working with you and your little ones.
ciao

[wffr]

Hey Heather, I see that you are online right now. What a quinky dink? Anyway, got some chicken wings for Denali otherwise known as HEE HEE! He went outside today in the blizzard and got some excercise playing in the snow, he is my little polar bear. He had such fun, that it was a shame I had to bring him back in.
Anyway, chicken wings, the fat part, he looked at it, sniffed it, licked it and walked away, several times. What does that mean? He tastes it but doesn't seem to want it.
HELP!!!

[wffr]

Heather,
Are your ferrets from Marshalls? Or is there a large commercial Canadian ferret farm like Marshall's in Canada? Just wondering, because most of the fuzzbutts I get are Marshall's, but I have had two ferrets in the rescue that were from Canada. One, her name was Q-tip, she was white except for a great big black point on her tail (came with canadian papers and all). She was adopted some time ago. Then I also got a girl name Cheyeanne whose mother was one of my Hospice patients, when I used to work for Hospice here with people. Cheyanne was deaf and also came with canadian papers, she died not too long ago from Insulinoma. It was funny her mom kept asking me about her and I said do you know she's deaf? She said "Oh well that's why she would never come to me"? well duh!! Just wondering if Canadian ferrets are bigger or better than the 'puppy mill' like farm of Marshall's.

[Heather]

Oh, what fun...ferts playing in the snow . A couple of weeks ago I opened my guy's play area and let them all go outside and play in the snow. They have so much fun, don't they?
Licking it is good It means he's actually thinking it might be food. Have you put some 'tone or something he thinks is yummy on it? Try scoring it so that it cuts through the meat to the bone. Pull it away a little so that there are jagged pieces of meat sticking out so there is something for his tongue to brush against. You can also play a little game of tug with him. Make him grab the wing with his teeth ( a little game of nip and tickle )
I hope that helps...sometimes it takes time for them to recognise meat, when it's in its all together. Your guys is trying to figure out why the chicken wing sort of tastes like his soupy but doesn't feel like his soupy
Good luck...looks like you might be on the way to having some fun with this little guys
ciao

[wffr]

;DHeather,
today is Thursday, well now it's Friday EST, just got all my stuff from Hare-today, including ground mouse. Put a little out just like out, but they all sniffed it and licked it, but wouldn't go any further.
Have alittle more stuff for them like ground gullet, ground turkey and more ground mouse. I am just
trying the ground mouse for right now,and only using meat they actually could catch if they were out and about *like not a cow*
I also have rabbit but am waiting how everything else goes first. I have 2 pounds of mouse so if one wastes I can keep on trying with the other.
I did get Flower and Zoom Zoom to eat some it by adding it to the chicken/turkey baby food I give them each night. They kind of looked at me and then at each other, like this tastes just slightly different but hey what the heck and ate it anyway. So I tried that with the other 7 and no one fell for it, so tonight I put a little less mouse and little more baby food and viola they all ate it, no problem.
YEAH!!! so that is how I am going to have to do it this time around until I get what I ordered from Caseyshiddenpantry.com to make soup.

[Heather]

I don't know how I missed this Sorry
Hey, what you did was great. You use whatever base you need to get them started. I usually tell people to make up their soupy and then add whatever raw meats they're going to add but in very small amounts, not even enough to really be noticed. As everyone eats that then move on to adding a little more. You keep doing this until your mix is more meat than soupy and then you're almost there Eventually, your guys are eating just the ground up meats. At that point you then start adding little tiny chunks to the ground meat (like you missed a couple when you're grinding ). These will be just little slivers, then you increase them and start varying the sizes, until you have whole chunks of meat. During that time you can also add some small boned pieces or some very small mice, pinkies or hoppers (you can feed these frozen if you don't want to feed them live) Sounds stupid but I have a hard time feeding my guys the babies. For one they don't recognise them as stimulating enough so will sometimes not kill them outright and that bothers me, so I feed full grown. It keeps the guys on their toes (these bite back and hard) and they're quicker to make a kill.
Good stuff. Let me know how it went. I will check in with you tonight
ciao