Tucker and Chuckie go natural

[tuckysmom]

:D1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems (this is VERY important)?
I have 2
Tucker 1yo Male HEALTHY!!
Chuckie 10 Month old Male HEALTHY!

2. What are your ferrets currently eating? Include their main diet, plus any treats or supplements (such as duk soup).

Both eat raw. 2 meals a day AM & PM Consisting of a mixture of cut up steak meat, chicken gizzards, stew meat, boneless chicken breast or thigh meat. They seem to prefer beef over chicken breast/thigh. 2 or 3 meals a week they each get a "cube" of homemade chicken soup (whole chicken + neck etc--cooked and ground up, meat fat, a few cooked eggs, assorted vitamins and supplements, ground up 50% protein kibble, and a few other ferret friendly items. Soup is frozen in ice cube trays for single serving feeding). They LOVE their soup, and it's a perfect portion for their meal !

3. What kind of diet do you want to switch to?

I would like to see them get more of a variety, ie: I have given them chicken wings/legs/thighs for a meal, they MAY eat some of the wing (the pointy end) but hide the rest---under blankets, in hammocks, under dressers etc. They will not EAT the meat from the bone. Tucker may eat 1/2 of the wings, Chuck a few licks or a few bites. I have tried the ferretone coating method, the skip a meal method, coating it with their soup method. NO GO.
They don't seem to like pork. I have tried to give them pinkies, and they look at me like it's a joke. Chuck hates anything to do with feathers even as a toy--Tucker loves feathers as a toy.
Don't know if I can handle giving mice (dead), or whole dead chickens. I have tried pinkies, so, a big part of a new variety is MY problem with feeding it.

4. Why do you want to switch to this more natural diet?

Tucker I have had since he was 6 or 7 weeks old and has eaten only raw food since he had NO interest in kibble at all.
I adopted Chuck when he was a 7 month old kibble eating boy. He had NO PROBLEM eating the raw meat I fed from day 1. He won't touch kibble now.
Both seem healthier, softer, more relaxed, NO SMELL at all, smaller poo DEFINITELY. I really noticed the change when I switched Chuck.

5. Where/what/who got you interested in natural diets?

Guili when she helped me in the Ferret.com forum when Tucker wouldn't eat kibble.

6. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?

Not sure of their weight, but they are in healthy condition, not fat or thin, or weak. Normal size for neutered males.

7. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)

I check weekly and they are still strong pink gums, perfect white teeth. They don't eat kibble so no tartar. Chuckie has no bad effects from his previous diet of kibble.

8. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.

BOTH--shiny, Plush, soft, sable colored, long winter coat.

9. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?

after eating or drinking

10. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?

No

11. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?

NO ODOR AT ALL!!! Even friends can't smell them in my house, or when they smell the fuzzies themselves.

12. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?

Happy active and alert. Not over the top spaz like, but normal dooking happy--8 maybe.

13. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?

Kibble is NOT an option, they let me know that already! LOL

14. Have you attempted to switch from kibble to a natural diet in the past? If so, what methods have you tried. Be specific.

Mentioned in above questions.

15. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?

I buy my meat at stores with the reduced price meat, usually 50% off. Again I would like to see them with more variety, and to eat it not hide or play with it.

16. If you can, please post a clear photograph of EACH of your ferrets directly below:

OOPS! I'm not sure how.....Copy/paste?

17.

a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch at least every other day?**

Got it! I will do my best!

b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers)via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's safety during the switch?

Absolutely-That would be fine!

c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explanation as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?***

YUP!

**Note 1: If you are unable to make it to a computer (such as on weekends) please indicate below so we know whether you just don't have computer access or if you have gone MIA.

Have computer, can travel! LOL

***Note 2: If you would like to try the switch again and you are committed to making regular updates you ARE welcome to restart your thread. Failure to provide regular updates will result in the deletion of your thread.

OKIE-DOKIE! :-)

[suds]

Hi Tuckersmom
your guys are eating raw but you want more variety ? and they dont eat rmb except in soup ? (meat and bone) .
It mite help if you could give us a list on your weekly feeding schedule what you feed and how much on each day .
what meats you have tried ?
what organs you have tried ?
Have you tried using a eating den to curb the stashing ?

With them eating raw already is great that is the hardest part tweeking and getting them to eat more variety should be much easer I am sure once a little more info is known the very good mentors and Guili will be able to help you on no time

[tuckysmom]

Hi :-)

The boys eat 2 meals a day of steak meat, chicken gizzards, stew meat. (they leave or pick out any pork pieces I have mixed in there) Once a week they get pieces of chicken liver added to the raw mix. I just throw a bunch of meat chunks into bowls for each of them, and most, if not all meat is gone by the next feeding. It isn't mixed with their soup. THAT is a seperate meal they get a few meals a week. The soup I make has the ground up bones organ meats etc.
They each have their spot they like to eat in. Any chicken gets stashed in their bedding or elsewhere around the house--It's pretty nasty when I finally find it as I clean house! LOL
I don't have an eating den for them. They have their spots (seperately) where they like to eat in the cage (FN 142). I did however see the remote "boxes" used for latrines, or eating boxes, posted on other threads. Is this what you were refering to? Thanks for the suggestion, but I have a boyfriend that is more handsome than handy, to have him replace a wall on my FN so the bars don't have to be cut would be like trying to teach him rocket science! LOL
ALSO, I just rescued a little baby girl fert about 9 weeks old TODAY. When I got her home I gave her my chicken soup which she gobbled up and wanted MORE, so of course after a bit I gave her another cube with small cut up meat pieces in it. Looked chunky, and she LOVED it and ate every drop licking the bowl clean, and falling asleep in my arms! So, she will be EASY to get on raw. Again, I don't know if I want whole prey yet, but at the very least pinkies, fuzzies, dead mice, chicken--a variety etc. THANKS!

[suds]

OK for 1 it sounds like you dont have enough ofal or bones Idealy you want to feed 4 parts rmb (raw meaty bones are half meat, half bone)
2 parts meat chunks without bone
1 part organ meats (approx. 1/4-1/3 liver and the rest is other organs)
The key is to maintain the 40%-20%-10% percentages

so we need to get your guys eating more bones 1 way to try is to cut the wings legthwise to expose the yummy bone marrow . or cut knecks up to smaller peaces and slowly increasing the size over time . I am putting a example of my feeding schedule for you to use as a guide . if you could please fill out a scedule listing each day . I think if I read correctly you just throw several differnt chunks of meat on each feeding . it mite better for now to feed only 1 kind of meat per feeding . once you get a good based schedule then we can work on getting them to eat more variety . they are spoiled knowing you are going to give them a choice of what to eat so of cource they will always take the easy way out.
and for feeding dens you can just put 2 soda boxes or shoe boxes inside the cage cut one hole lots of ferrets like to eat in dark sucluded places its worth a try I use the 12 pack pepsi boxes I change them out every other week or week depending on how gross they get lol

Keep in mind my schedule is just a guide I use whole prey but we need to know by day how much and what you feed them .
Here's an example:
-------------------------------------------------
Monday:
AM 1 part Organs: turkey livers, hearts, gizzards
AM 2 parts muscle: turkey meat
PM 4 Parts RMB: turkey neck and chicken thighs

Tuesday:
AM 1 Part Organs: Beef liver, heart, kidney
AM 2 Parts Muscle: Beef (or veal)
PM 4 Parts RMB: 1/2cornish game hen

Wednesday:
AM 1 part Organs: chicken livers, hearts, gizzards
AM 2 parts muscle: chicken meat chunks
PM 4 Parts RMB: chicken wings and thigh

Thursday:
AM 1 Part Organs: turkey liver, heart, kidney
AM 2 Parts Muscle: lamb or pork chunks (or rabbit chunks)
PM 4 Parts RMB: trukey neck, Chicken thighs (or rabbit/bones)

Friday:
AM: 1 Part Smelts & sardines
AM: 2 parts Wysong Archetypal I
PM: 4 part Adult Mice and Wysong Archetypal I
(OR all Wysong's)

Saturday:
AM 1 part Organs: Chicken livers, hearts, gizzards
AM 2 parts muscle: lamb or pork chunks
PM 4 Parts RMB: Chicken legs (or rabbit/bones)

Sunday:
AM 1 Part Organs: Beef liver, heart, kidney
AM 2 Parts Muscle: lamb or pork chunks
PM 4 Parts RMB: chickn wings, thighs

[tuckysmom]

Hi Suds! Are you my mentor? Cool!

Yup I put at least a couple oz. of meat chunks in each ferrets bowl. AM & PM. I do it because of them not eating bone. They get whatever is in the discount freezer, I bring it home cut it up and put the meat in ziploc sandwich bags and freeze. Usually that lasts about 2-3 weeks. Hearts/necks of any kind are hard to find, but I can ask my butcher if he can save some for me if he has them.
I have a bunch of frozen meat chunks I can seperate into single meat varieties as I thaw them out for each feeding. I think I still have some frozen chicken livers as well. Now, I read somewhere that a ferret shouldn't be given organ meats like this more than a couple times a week because of the high concentration of something (CRS--Can't remember stuff-LOL). So obviously it's OK?
I'll thaw out some chicken wings for tomorrow as well, and cut it like you suggested. See what happens.
Is the Wysong you feed the raw medallions?
Can I still feed them their soup once or twice a week?
The new baby, same food for her? I have her eating the soup with meat chunks in it every 4-6 hours. She has quite a hefty appetite!
Did you meaqn you want me to fill out a schedule on what I feed starting, say, tomorrow? I have to wait a week or so b4 I go shopping for more. Payday and all. I can feed chicken livers, I don't have any other kind/variety of organ meat. I'll do what I can.
Are the chicken drummies different than the chicken legs?
what is "ofal"? Sorry...... I just want to make sure I know what I don't have LOL
Thanks for your schedule example--It helps! I'll do what I can tomorrow for their AM feeding, and start listing what they are eating.
P.S. You can call me Deb if you like

[suds]

Hi Deb
Congrats on your little girl
I am not a mentor yet just helping you start untill Guili gets a chance to read your thread and assign you a mentor . to tell who mentors are or mentors in training look under there name and you will see the titles and also they have diffent color names if at anytime you have a problem or need a question answered quickly you can PM any of the mentors and they will gladly help you .

Ok for now when you feed them meat chunck's you should add calcium the easest way for now will be to dry out egg shells and crush them up as best as you can the more fine you can crush them the better and spinkle about a table spoon per meal over the meat untill you can get them eating bone on there own. its important they have plenty of calcium and the egg shell will work in the mean time.
I am not sure what drummie's are . when I first started to get my two to learn how to eat bones I bought a couple of bags of small chicken wings and drumsticks they are the same size most places use for makeing hotwings. I would at first score the meat and cut the bones down the middle length wise it helped them to get a grip on the meat peaces as well as easer to chew on the bones while learning. I aslo would get chicken and turky knecks and would cut them up in small peaces started out about the sise of standard kibble and slowly increased the size . They need to learn that bone's are food and how to eat them. once they master the little chicken wings and bigger knecks then you can move onto things like whole game hens .

as for liver it depends on how much you actualy feed them idealy you want 10% of organs ( I call is ofal) some people feed 1 day of organs I do it a little differnt and feed it daily as you se in the sample schedual. You can read some of the other threads in this section to se what others do and how they do it to get some ideals and figure out what works best for you and your guys .
as for makeing a daily feeding schedule it realy helps in a few ways . 1 it helps us to see exactly what you are feeding each day so we can catch any nutrition problems . It also helps you keep track of what you need to feed them especaily when time get hectic its nice to have a refernce to go by.

Wysong Archetypal I is a freese dried compleet meal. it comes in bags like kibble , not medalions I just give it to them as I would kibble. I like them to still be used to it incase I need some else to feed them and they dont want to feed raw it also easer for me to use when I take them with me traveling.
You can feed the soup as always for now .
are your guys caged at nightor free roam ? if they are caged at night I would sugest to feed them the meat chunks in the am like normal then in the pm when they get put up for the night try giveing them the chicken drums , score the meat and cut the bone down the middle legth wise try this for a few nights you never know they just mite get the hint and start eating them. and for your new one I would feed the same as you do the other 2 she will probly even eat whole wings on her own at they age they are little piggie's and having bone is very important during growing stages .

hope this helps and makes some sence
Frank

I forgot to add you can also use beef and pork organs they dont have to be chicken or turky, beef , livers , spleens, kidney's are normaly easer to find .

[tuckysmom]

Ok :-) Nice explainations! Thank You. You are correct, the baby (Gracie) IS a little piggie in a ferret coat. She can pack it down. This AM I gave her 3 tablespoons of Turkey Canine Cavier canned food (For cats and dogs, all meat based, grain & gluten free) added 1/4 tsp of Nupro suppliment, a pinch of Solid Gold Sea Meal, and a dash of Ferretone on top. :-) I also put about 1 1/2 oz of beef chunks in it. She gobbled it ALL down. 3 hours later I put 1/2 a chicken wing in for her and smothered a bit of soup on it like gravy. She ate all the gravy and saved the wing for later (2 hours later) and ate it ALL but about a 1/4 inch piece of bone!! WOW. She LOVES raw. :-) Smart little girl!
Now for breakfast my boys got a 1/2 a chicken wing - cut like you said to expose the marrow, and some chicken liver I cut up, and I poured the blood juice from it on the chicken (they like the juice). They ate the livers and drank the juice, one leg was eaten (haven't found it in their bedding) and the other was 1/2 eaten. They like eating under the ramps of their cage -didn't have any useable boxy small thing to convert to a "fine dining establishment" LOL But they were OK without it. I decided to feed the bone in the AM as that is when the boys are hungriest. I do have 4 leftover egg shells from when I made the Chicken soup--I froze them :-) I will crush them up and use what I can till I get more. Hmmmm I wonder if the diner up the road will save some shells for me...? They would think I was crazy! Guess I will have to eat more eggs for B-fast (heaven forbid I bake more cookies! LOL) I need the protein anyway!
I have checked on Wysong b4. Most places don't carry it here, not much of a demand I guess, BUT they carry "Natures Variety". Those are the Medallions--They almost remind me of tiny beef patties.
This afternoon I did go to the butcher and get a pound of beef heart and liver and TONGUE! (Blah, that looked so icky to me I had them slice it for me! LOL) They didn't have pork organs, or "bird" organs. They are however ordering chicken necks for me and they will be in next week. :-) I also got some turkey meat and pork meat that was in the discount freezer. So I spent less than $15--so that was OK. I'm going to cut, bag, and freeze it tonight. I have the "drummies" (Hotwing size ), and wings. So I will go with what I have for now.
Dinner for the boys will be beef chunks w/some beef liver and top it off with the egg dust. Baby girl will get her soup with beef chunks & liver. Sound good?
My boys free roam for a couple hours in the AM, then have B-fast (in their cage) then nappy time. If I am around they get free roam till PM or nity-nite in their cage, and they get their dinner at that time. Little girl gets out for as much as she can till she gets to tired, or the boys get too rough.
She has a seperate cage for now till she is bigger and a little more litter trained. She goes in the box 50% of the time.
Thanks Frank for your help! And have a Safe and happy new year! I'll talk to you next year!
D.

[sherrylynne]

One thing that might help in getting the boys eating bones is to give them chicken wings for 2-3 days. That's what Guili had me do with mine, and it worked like a charm. I jus sectioned them, and cut the long middle bones, as well as the drumette bone, in half lengthwise, as well as crosswise. They took a bit, but went for them like little piggies in the end! And I'd say your little girl is pretty much there already . As for Wysong's, I get mine from jojodancer on this forum. She runs Casey's Hidden Pantry. Good price and shipping!

[tuckysmom]

Hi Sherrylynne
Ya know, in the back of my mind I know I should just give them chicken bones. But I freak out when they don't eat, or I have hidden wings/drummies all over.... then it gets wasted......
Yeah, the boys know they have me wrapped around their little tails! I just want them to enjoy eating what I give them like Gracie does. (Guess she doesn't know any different at 9 weeks old....)

[Heather]

Quail quarters work really well too They're smaller than chicken bones and have lots of meat so it's like learning how to eat bones. My guys don't like chicken wings, they do like legs but I score the meat for the guys. Rabbit is another good meat to start on too. The bones are about the same size and density as chicken and it's a mild flavoured meat that a lot of ferrets seem to like. Some of my guys really like pork riblets too. The bones are really light, almost tendon like in texture and are easily consumed. I'm trying to think what the brats had this week.
1 whole rabbit (all the insides and fur too)
Some rats (all the insides and fur too)
Quail (this includes offal and the quail is in quarters...no feathers )
chicken (an ongoing staple as one of the cats has a low tolerance of other meats so this is one meat that is available 24/7)
Turkey parts (Christmas dinner )
Treats were giblets and livers and I got a really good deal on turkey hearts so they got those as treats as well.
I've now reached a level that I rarely think about what I'm feeding the guys and having 16 fuzzbutts dancing a jigg around the fridge when I'm getting their dinner is a lot of fun
My guys also get a mix of ground rmb, offal, raw eggs, and a bit of pumpkin or squash that is available to them as well on a daily basis. I'm presently switching 2 ferrets (ages approx 3) that were turned in just before Christmas so we're doing the old egg soupy mix right now too.
I'm sure that Giuli will get you a permanent mentor soon. Good luck
ciao

[suds]

HAPPY NEW YEAR !!

they ate 1 and a half wing thats great news !! Its a good start like Sherry said continue to give them the wings and drums each day once they are eating all the scored and cut wings then you can slowly stop cutting and scoring them . Dont worry too much about the egg shells once they start eating the RMB's ( raw meaty bones) you will not need the shells . I as a habbit still save all my egg shells though and keep a couple of baggies in the freezer lol. Another thing you can do is feed them once a week a whole egg each shell and all alot ferrets love it as a treat . exept mine Hershy hates anything soupy or runny she is such a queen at times lol.

See this why I love this site so much always allot of help available and the mentors are awesome . I never would have thought to use quail as Heather said ! There bones are much thinner then chicken wings .
keep up the good work you will get those little guys eating bones in no time

[sherrylynne]

And if you are concerned about finding bits all over , which I have to admit, you will- either train them to a feeding den, or do what I do- I feed them in their cage. I was finding so much meat all over the house(only one ever successfully used a den), that now I give them their food 30 minutes before they come out to play. Oh, I still find the odd bit here and there, but it is really controllable!

[suds]

Hi Deb
Good news Guili has asked me to be your mentor , You are my first victim lol but no worries Heather will also be monitoring and helping out to . That's whats so great about this site always plenty of help near by
A little about me I live in south Pa near Philadelphia, I work in the heating and a/c business . I started researching about raw feeding when I got Hershey last July. she is around 2 years old feisty and very picky little girl and it took me 3 months to get her to switch , JD is my little wrestling buddy he is about 3 years old and a lightening bolt of energy when he is awake he never stops and will eat anything so he was easy to switch .
I do feed my guys a little different then most because Hershey will not eat liver plain I have to hide it in meat chunks' so I found it easer to just feed the percentages each day rather then base it on a week of meals , most do there schedules and feeding based on the week 1 day organs, 4 days rmbs, 2 days Boneless Muscle Meat , it all balances out in the long run just depend on what you prefer.

The other thing I do different is feed a combination of whole prey (frozen then thawed) and raw, basically I feed every other day whole prey and raw the opposite days and 1 day a week they kind of fast that day they basically have wysons a-1 available to them that day. I find it keeps them enthused about feeding .

So as you can see there are many options that can be done and I will be glad to help you with what every options you decide works best for you and your business I know it all sounds confusing at first but once we get them eating bone and get a schedule going it all become very easy I promise .

[Heather]

Looking good guys. I'm really not hanging over your shoulder Suds I will be popping in once and awhile . Quail was one of the first whole (well quarters) that my guys worked on. It was more thanks to the pet food store (it's actually a pet boutique that caters to raw feeders) that I've managed to feed some of the more exotic meats available. Trying out some of the international butchers is also allows for some interesting new meats to offer variety to your furbabies diet. Any meat is game (bad pun ) just watch for additives.
Have fun guys
ciao

[tuckysmom]

HAPPY NEW YEAR! THANKS TO ALL OF YOU--FRANK, SHERRYLYNNE, HEATHER! You all have some great advice! And Frank, I graciously and appreciatively accept being your first victim! I'm confident with your help we will get thru this, and start the New Year off right!
So.........Here's what happened....
I thought one of the boys ate a wing the other day.....well, Gracie found it while she was scoping out their cage tonight (I don't know where, because I cleaned/checked their cage) and was carrying it off like some wonderful treasure (all dried up and yucky looking). EEWWW! She loves the bones, with or without soup. She actually ate 2 drummies tonight. She had her soup, meat chunks and organ meat this AM. YUP, she's already a "bone"-i-fied rawbie...LOL
So, All day yesterday, and today the boys did NOT eat the wings I gave them. And that is all I have been giving them, nothing else. So, tonight when I let them out, they were kind of sluggish. I figured they were hungry, and feelin' it after 2 days. So I gave them a scored, etc drummie, and they gave me the sad eyes and went to curl up in their hammocks. GOOD GRIEF! :-( So I gave them about an hour to "re-think" their position on eating RMB's. Not eaten. Of course I made up some chicken soup for them-Their favorite-and cut up meat and organ pieces for them AND added the pulverized egg shells--they DIDN'T eat that EITHER! OMG! What have I done!! LOL Are they going on a hunger strike? Are they fasting? This is not like them to not eat their soup. <grumble, grumble>
I called the butcher today and asked if they had/could get quail, or rabbit. They will have to check on it for me, and I will probably have to order it. It won't be as inexpensive as chicken for either. So I don't know if I want to order it if they aren't going to eat it. <more grumble, grumble> Seriously, what is so hard about eating off the bones? They eat the meat I cube for them......
QUESTION: About the egg thing....If I give them an egg, it's raw correct? Obviously broke open & scrambled up a little bit, shell and all? I know I read somewhere that Bob Church give's his Fuzzies their soup in an eggshell which they carry off and eat. I tried that ONCE. The boys did not carry anything off, and I had soup all over! LOL Ideas?!

A little about me: I live in MN. Brrrr So I am basically a full time Icicle, that has a Pet Sitting/Dog walking/ Animal Care Business. LOL I also study Animal Reiki, and Healing Touch, as well as Animal Communication (and it hasn't worked with the fuzzies! LOL) I also work PT at a Pet Store in Town. I was owned by 8 fuzzies a few years ago, and all lived out their lives with me. I was fuzzless for about 3 years till Tucker came into my life at a very young age (maybe 6-8 weeks old), about 1 year ago. He never ate kibble. So that was when Guili helped me and reformed my evil kibble ways on the Ferret.com forum. I adopted Chuckie last Sept and he was keen on the idea of eating meat instead of kibble and he switched easily. He won't touch kibble now at all. <YAY!> And, well, we know about little 9 week old Gracie.......
So, that is what is going on now......
BTW Heather, do you run a Ferret Rescue? I couldn't imagine 16 ferrets doing a jig while I made their food! LOL WOW!
You are Wonder Woman!