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Post by weloveourweasels on Mar 1, 2009 13:55:53 GMT -5
So I frequent quite a few forums and try to give people advice if I know something on the subject. I could only answer a bit of her question but not with much detail and I am a very detailed person.
Well a question was brought up if it is OK to feed live goldfish and if so how often. I thought I read somewhere if you feed too many goldfish it can lead to a vitamin deficiency or something.
Also which types of fish should this person avoid (I think all canned fish are to be avoided and raw is best?) and which types of fish are best. They are interested in only giving the fish as a treat.
Also why is cod fish oil bad (too many of a certain vitamin I think) and why is wild caught Alaskan salmon fish oil the best.
Why are animal based oils better than plant based oils? It is because ferrets are carnivores and the benefit more from them right?
How much fish oil should be offered? This person is highly interested in getting the gel caps at wal-mart that you pierce open and she only has one ferret. So would one gel cap a day be too much?
Thank You for your help everyone! Once I get some answered I will link her to this discussion.
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 2, 2009 13:56:50 GMT -5
I saw your post, but since it was answered on another forum, I didn't see the sense  |
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Post by weloveourweasels on Mar 2, 2009 14:51:04 GMT -5
I know Sherry thanks. I guess I will just give her the info you and Erinn gave. I was hoping to get a little bit more insight from other sources though.
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Post by tss on Mar 2, 2009 18:39:28 GMT -5
Gold fish are OK to feed but probably no more then once a month, goldfish are carp and carp can cause a vitamin B1 deficiency.
Stay away from larger fish that live a longer time, they are higher in mercury. Salmon, whiting, sardines, tilapia and hake are all fish that are low on mercury.
Cod liver oil is bad because it is very high in vitamin A, I know of a human who accidentally overdosed on it and got very sick.. Imagen how easily it could happen to a ferret. The salmon oil is much lower in vitamin A and mercury so it is better to supplement with.
1 gel cap a day is fine, but if you really wanted to give it to your ferret then every second or third day is better.
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Post by fortheloveofferret on Mar 2, 2009 20:33:09 GMT -5
. Cod liver oil is bad because it is very high in vitamin A, I know of a human who accidentally overdosed on it and got very sick.. Imagen how easily it could happen to a ferret. The salmon oil is much lower in vitamin A and mercury so it is better to supplement with. According to some things I was reading on the FHL, Vitamin A doesn't seem to affect ferrets the way it does humans if over-done. It's the high amounts of Vitamin D in the cod liver oil that are more troublesome - too much of it has been linked to too much blood calcium and this can be problematic. I know it said it affects dogs the same way, and I'm thinking it might be for all carnivores, but I'm not 100% sure about that. |
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Post by weloveourweasels on Mar 3, 2009 0:55:54 GMT -5
I have always heard that too much vitamin a )the stories come mostly from ferrets who had to see the vet from too much ferretone) getting really bad diarrhea and dehydrating supposedly from vitamin a in the ferretone.
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 3, 2009 9:39:05 GMT -5
That's also one of the reasons they can't have too much liver- vit. A toxicity.
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Post by fortheloveofferret on Mar 3, 2009 11:49:23 GMT -5
All I'm saying is, according to things I've read on the FHL too much Vit A does not seem to be as much of a problem as once thought. It was in a post made by Sukie Crandall about cod liver oil. I don't know if it's true or not, I've also read in other places that too much Vit A can be a problem, but I'm not about to start testing on my ferrets to see which side is true. I'll email Sukie and try to find out where she got the info about the Vit A and pass on whatever I find out.
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Post by fortheloveofferret on Mar 3, 2009 11:51:51 GMT -5
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Post by fortheloveofferret on Mar 3, 2009 15:08:37 GMT -5
Alright, this is the reply I received from Sukie (she gave me permission to copy her reply here):
"Nope. They need to check with veterinary nutritionists. That's exactly what I did last year on this question. (my question was "Can ferrets overdose on Vitamin A like humans can?") HUMANS and rodents are among the species that can pretty easily get too much Vitamin A, and often not enough D. Ferrets and dogs are different. They handle A better than we do, but for them too much D can cause medical problems, especially hypercalcemia.
"Vitamin A and Vitamin D are two nutrients in which what is true for primates and rodents is not true for a number of members of carnivora. Different mammalian orders have different considerations.
"Now, would it be POSSIBLE to overdo A for ferrets, or D for humans? Sure. They are fat soluble vitamins so they hang around in the body more easily than the water soluble vitamins, and even water soluble vitamins can be over-done, for example, too much C in humans will drop copper levels which in turn will drop iron levels, and too much B-6 has similar neural damage effects to too little B-6. Anything can be overdone. You can even have too much water. Still, for ferrets it is the *D* that is more easily over-done, whereas for humans it is the A.
"If people want to think about the A they need to remember that we are NOT descended from creatures which consumed the livers and some other organs of other animals on a daily basis. Ferrets are. They have millions of years of ancestors who survived more A in the diet than humans can."
(This part has to do with Vit D):
"Tom Willard (whose doctorate is in veterinary nutrition and who specialized in the needs of members of carnivora) wrote in 2007:
'Vitamin D3 is an essential, fat soluble vitamin involved in Ca uptake as well as metabolic regulation and hundreds of other metabolic processes. It can be toxic if fed in excess of requirements. In some species that may be as little as 5 times over the minimum requirement in others it may be 10. Since the ferret evolved from ground burrowing ancestors, they could easily be more sensitive to D3 overages than other species.'"
She also mentioned that she talked with him in November 2008 at the IFC Symposium, so she has more recent confirmation than when she originally wrote to him in 2007.
I asked her if she had any links to studies that prove or disprove the Vitamin A thing, but she said she didn't have time to look those up. She said there have been studies done, some were dog studies, but the same results applied to ferrets as well. If I come across any, I will post them. I'm sure there's probably more listed on the FHL archives as well, I just haven't found them. If there have been cases of Vitamin A overdose in ferrets, then it could be because of one of two reasons: 1) They were fed an *extremely* large amount of it or 2) other nutrients were out of balance. All the nutrients have to be in reasonable balance with one another or problems can happen. With ferrets having a shorter digestive period, any unbalances are going to more rapidly cause problems for them than they would for something with a longer digestive period, like us humans.
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