No supplements

[amymelissa]

I have 3 fuzz butts. A girl who's 1 1/2 - 2 and two whirlwinds who are 14 and 13 weeks. They recently graduated from the mentor program and are feed 100% raw, no prey as of yet. All three are healthy other than a bit of itchy skin which I think is because it's winter. I give them a oatmeal bath when the itchy are extreme.

I don't give any supplements. I did try fish oil and all three wouldn't touch their food, which is really odd for the boys because they scarf down anything we put in front of them, even if it's new. I've never given ferretone or any other "supplement" targeted towards ferrets.

Where we live now they don't have flea's so I've never had to worry about it. We do get ticks because the deer run through our neighborhood but the fuzzy aren't outside now due to the cold and the dogs always get checked before coming in. However we are moving to an area that does have flea's and ticks. I hate medications unless needed and even then the Doctor/Vet has to really convince me. I've already checked out the natural flea and tick thread so I'm good on that.

So my question is, is there anything that they should be supplemented with and why? I'd prefer a natural source when possible.

*edited to add*
I just reread this and it, seems to me anyway, that I came across pissy.... sorry about that. I didn't mean for it to come across like that. I blame it on a late night and up early

[mustelidmusk]

Your post doesn't sound pissy to me - My posts probably sound down-right rude to some people, which is not the intent - but my husband is from NYC, so I probably have a fairly direct communication style that some people may find a little assertive

Anyway, as you already know, the fish oil (or flax seed oil) or olive oil can help with the itchiness. Try giving a little olive oil mixed with one drop of the fish/salmon oil. you can reduce the olive oil over time.

Also check the date on the fish oil to make sure its fresh. Store it in the fridge.

Now, here is something you may want to consider....Taurine supplements. Here's the scoop on taurine....

We have no idea if or how much taurine ferrets require. In fact they my not require additional supplementation at all. For example, dogs maunfacture their own tarine, but cats do not. Some people believe dogs benefit from a bit of taurine when they're sick with certain illneses. But we really don't know.

Cats do require taurine. They do not manufacture it. There are many studies demonstrating that cats will start dropping dead from heart disease if not fed taurine.

Ferrets? we ASSUME they need taurine because , similar to cats, they are carnivores.

Now, one weakness with frozen raw diet is that taurine degrades when frozen. The longer meat is frozen, the greater the degradation in the taurine.

Taurine is present in greater quantities in darker meats such as dark chicken/poultry meats, lamb, beef, etc. Rabbit is low in taurine. heart contains higher concentration of taurine as well.

Please remember that even non-frozen meats have been frozen at one time before they hit the supermarket.

I supplement with 500 mg (one capsule) 3-4 time per week. I mix this into their food (it's tasteless)....and this food is split between my 4 brats.

My kids just went in for their annual checkup, and I did complete bloodwork on my 3 older kids. They all have great blood work and they're extremely healthy - they turn 4 in March and have been on raw since I transitioned them as kits.) My vet, who's now starting to appreciate the raw diet, says to keep doing whatever I'm doing!

Anywany, Taurine is not something that easy to "OD" on, so it's not like vitamin A, etc. For more information, please check out catnutrition.org. look under the recipes section - I think there's some good info about taurine there.

-jennifer

[amymelissa]

I had read about the depletion of the taurine but didn't realize they made a supplement for it. Is there one brand better than another or does it matter? Is it better to get powder or capsules? I did find 250 caps of 500mg for $23 a bottle, to expensive or about average? They also had 300 grams of powder for $15.

We'll try mixing the olive oil with fish oil and see how it goes. Does it matter what type of olive oil. All we have is extra virgin olive oil. It is plain though with no added ingredients like garlic.

[Kerit]

Thank you, Jennifer! I just picked up a bottle of Taurine capsules today and was about to ask the dosage.

I paid $7 for 100 capsules from the local health food store.

[mustelidmusk]

I've just been picking up whatever they have at the "health food" grocery store near by (Whole Foods). The brand I have now is called Solgar, but I don't know any details about the various brands. The capsules I've gotten contain powder. They're 500 mg. per capsule, and they pull apart very easily. I just spinkle this powder on their food and mix it in well. The food is then split across all 4 of my brats.

-jennifer

[Forum Administrator]

The main supplements I use are:

1.) Fish Oil or Totally Ferret Vivify (emu oil)
2.) Unflavored Pedialyte (when poop is runny)
3.) Digestive Enzymes and Probiotics (if poop is runny or the kiddos are on anti-biotics)
4.) Crushed Eggshell powder (not a substitue for bone, but I do use this as a supplement occasionally for extra fiber/calcium when poops are looking runny)
5.) Decaffinated Green Tea (Honestly I don't even know if this has any benefits for ferrets, but I discovered that my 9 year old, De LOVES green tea (she got into some of my tea that I made for myself) so now she gets a little bowl of warm DECAFFINATED green tea a few times a week. She likes it and I figure it can't hurt. All my other animals hate green tea lol.

Those are the main supplements I use. I try to use a lot of variety in the diet to reduce the need for supplements. Feeding a wide variety of fresh, non-ground, foods helps to keep nutrient levels at the right levels.

[cristina]

When I came across this thread I was so interested when I went through it because, well for one I have no knowledge on supplements ::)and I would like to. I found some interesting things I would like to know more about....Giuli, I am curious about what are and how probiotics/digestive enzymes work. Also I am wondering what brands you use for the supplememnts you mentioned (so I have something to base off of since I dont know the product itself at all).

I am also going to check out taurine too. ( I thought a bit wouldnt hurt seeing as I feed mostly frozen meats since I buy in bulk).

[amymelissa]

I'm not Giuli, but thought I'd throw in what I do know about probiotics/digestive enzymes and how they work.

Probiotics are the "healthy" bacteria in the gut. They help to break down the foods eaten. They also help with absorption, I think. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Many time when switching an animal/or human diet or when they are on antibiotics it causes upset in the proportions of healthy bacteria and bad bacteria.

Probiotics help to stabilize the healthy bacteria.

[cristina]

Giuliana commented in your thread and listed some supplements she uses and i was wondering which brands she uses and such.
Sorry I didnt mean to confuse you! And thank you for the explaination, I kinda figured thats how they worked, but I would have no idea where to get them or what "kind" or type to use. And its really a good topic because I myself have been wondering about supplements ferrets need and or can take also about their functions.

[amymelissa]

I haven't used them for the ferrets but I do use them for my dogs and I get theirs from the local health food store.

[cristina]

I have another question (for anyone) about supplements (Ive done lots of research now because of this thread haha )

I found 2 things that (I think) qualify as a digestive enzyme and probiotic supplement:

The first one is called "4Life Digestive Enzymes and Probiotics with EnzyGuard-D":
www.immune-system-iq.com/dig_enzymes.htm

And the second one (although it seems a bit "iffy" to me since its made from green plant material and ferrets are strictly carnivores , though it says its beneficial for them), Im curious to hear what anyones opinions are for this product as well:

www.healthforce.com/product-greenmush.html

This is just some "food for thought" on supplements I am curious about, so please feel free to give any opinions!!!

[Darlene]

I've been reading this thread about supplementing Taurine. I'm curious if anyone that's been feeding raw for many years....if they provide taurine also. I've read where it's not neccessary and where it is.

[Heather]

Jumping into the fray
Taurine is found in all raw meats. That being said....if we freeze our meat a certain amount of taurine is depleted, if we grind a bit more is lost. I do not, except in the rarest occasion, supplement taurine. I prefer to add extra heart and or blood. I did buy a bottle when I first started raw feeding, but after a while I stopped adding it unless, I found I couldn't supply enough red meat or heart. I found that it was more for my comfort level than any actual benefit. Mouse seemingly has the highest taurine levels available. Hearts because they deal most directly with large quantities of blood also have very high taurine levels. I supplement practically not at all, preferring to use variety to cover my bases rather than chemical based products.
Probiotics....I've also used on rare occasions. A good pro biotic is live, and must be kept in the fridge, and only good for short periods of time. It cannot be kept on a shelf in a capsule. A good pro biotic culture is a type of bacteria that helps digestion, it generally isn't a batch of herbs that are put together (though these may indeed help indigestion ) Some of our pets immunities and digestive tracks are badly damaged and cannot properly digest their natural diet when they are first switched. Most pro biotics are added to the food 10 min before the food is to be eaten. It starts to digest the food before the food is eaten, thus aiding the whole digestive process, thus creating a "pre digestion" of the food. That is the theory in a perfect world I have never used a pro biotic for a ferret. I have used it for a dog who had major digestive problems (similar to IBD) I eventually started using slippery elm powder instead and have used that many times for ferrets.
I find a lot of supplements are geared to make us "feel good" about what we're doing, not necessarily to "do" any good. Most mulitvitamins are geared in such a manner if we were to take apart the mineral and vitamin contents the dosages are much lower than would ever be beneficial but they make us feel that we're doing something good for ourselves.
This is just my 2 cents worth of course
ciao

[mustelidmusk]

I don't know what "a long time" is, but it will be 4 years in May since I started feeding my 3 of my 4 ferrets raw (and roughly 3.5 years for my 4th fert). I've always added a little taurine. I feed a frozen raw (ground) diet along with freeze-dried raw.

My 3 older ferts just got their first bloodwork done - the results were really good. My vet says to keep doing whatever I'm doing.

Two of my ferts from the same littler have borderline high eosinophils, which most likely reflects a genetic, sub-clinical allergy (probably to chicken since those two had less perfect poops on the kibble when I first got them).


So, for the taurine - we really don't know what the requirement is, but its certainly not hurting my brats - the vet says they all have very strong hearts.

fish oil (and flax seed as well) does help make a softer coat. I think the fish oil works better for my kids than the flax seed oil, but the better coats on fish oil may be something else of just being on the oils longer.

Probios - I remember reading that 2 fairly well-respected ferret people from one of the ferret symposiums stated that the ferret gut is too fast for probios to have any real benefit. I think a lot has to do with what's in it the probios, when/how it's used, and how freshthe probios are and how they're stored.

I also give some trace minerals -

I gotta run...I'll posy t more later

-jennifer

[Heather]

Feeding for a long time hmmmm. Not as long as I should have been..... but 11 yrs so far. Let's just say I would never go back. Remember though, it's not a defined science, what works for one furchild doesn't for the next. I was talking with a lady who discovered for whatever reason her dog didn't absorb taurine properly from meat, especially from dog foods (now you ask dog manufacturers about dogs and taurine and a few years ago and they would have said it wasn't necessary, they're discovering differently). She supplemented heavily, a couple of capsules each meal. This is what her furchild needed. I've only used it occasionally, especially if feeding a lot of rabbit. If your guys have good blood work within reasonable ranges then you're doing well. There's not a lot to argue with that You have to remember, we're demanding a lot more from our pets foods than ever before. As much as I hate kibble take a look at what that has become, even in the last 10 yrs....especially in the last 5. We expect, no demand so much better.
Each of us will tweek and adjust to accomodate each furbaby. It's not easy it requires a lot of research. Thank goodness for forums like this where you can bounce an idea around and see if it might indeed work if not for one furkid, maybe another.
ciao