|
|
Post by pear2apple on Sept 17, 2008 20:57:04 GMT -5
a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch atleast every other day?**
Yes, however I am not updating super regularly because a lot of what I am doing is through PM or email with Jennifer. Also, I think I am almost nearly finished with my "switch" and I am starting to come up with a regular plan with Jennifer.
b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers) via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's saftey during the switch? (Please post below letting us know that you and your mentor have exchanged phone numbers or emails)
Yes, and Jennifer has my email address and we frequently email and PM to stay in contact.
c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explaination as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?***
I will try to update weekly.
**Note 1: If you are unable to make it to a computer (such as on weekends) please indicate below so we know whether you just dont have computer access or if you have gone MIA.
***Note 2: If you would like to try the switch again and you are committed to making regular updates you ARE welcome to restart your thread. Failure to provide regular updates will result in the deletion of your thread.
|
|
|
|
Post by pear2apple on Sept 17, 2008 21:03:02 GMT -5
I am trying some new things with Apple. I have talked to several people with IBD ferrets and they are recommending much of the same things.
No chicken, add some "bulk" to the diet, less variety but still complete diets.
I have just ordered Ziwipeak and Stella & Chewy's freeze dried steaks. I plan to feed that during the day, perhaps adding a few pieces of Evo Red Meat bites to the mix for his "bulk" and then 2 meals of the NV frozen raw. I still have some rabbit and other raw meats left over, I plan to mix those up into the NV and feed them that way. Someone on another site recommended that I try out canned Evo 95% meats, that they have helped with her IBD ferrets. I think I will give that a try as well.
Right now I am working on stablizing Apple's seedy poops. He had a few recently that look good. Right now Apple is sleeping a lot and eating a lot. I guess it is a colder weather thing. But he still has lots of energy when he is awake.
|
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 17, 2008 23:28:53 GMT -5
Sounds like a good plan. As I posted in Kiwi's thread, the canned stuff i worth trying. It is cooked, but so is kibble, and kibble will be less digestible. A lot of people have reported good results with AD, which is a canned diet hat has CHICKEN  If we can get Apple improving a bit, then we can tweak things slowly over time. Slippery Elm bark is an anti-inflammatory that reportedly works well for IBD. I think Heather has used this with her IBD kids, so I will ask her to post here if she has info. I never use this - I've recently learned about it. I looked for info for ferrets, but I haven't found dosing info. -jennifer |
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Sept 18, 2008 10:44:13 GMT -5
Hi Guys Just popping in to give some info on slippery elm powder or bark. As neither of you are familiar with slippery elm I'm going to post you a site www.littlebigcat.com/index.php?action=library&act=show&item=slipperyelm I hope this works because not only does it give you a recipe to follow (I use this) it also give you some ideas what you can actually use this herb for. I started using slippery elm for my son when he was a baby before I discovered that he was sensitive to milk, all wheat products and preservatives. It allowed him to deal with the horrible cramping that always came after every meal. I stopped using it for awhile but then started up again when I had to treat some furbabies for both ulcers and IBD. It's wonderful stuff and I use it in my duk soup recipe as like pumpkin it will settle upset tummies. Let me know if the link works, if it doesn't I will copy the whole article and send it. It's not a long article and well worth the read. You will note that it's not geared for ferrets...you won't find any info geared specifically for ferrets  but 10 lbs dosage is easy to extrapolate as I just make up enough food for that amount. Hope it helps, good luck ciao |
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 18, 2008 18:49:36 GMT -5
Thanks so much!!!! It's just too scary to experiment on your own without a vet or input from somebody who's used the herb on ferrets before!
-jennifer
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Sept 19, 2008 23:20:46 GMT -5
Any time. Glad I could lend a helping hand.
ciao
|
|
|
|
Post by pear2apple on Sept 24, 2008 13:16:56 GMT -5
Hi Guys Just popping in to give some info on slippery elm powder or bark. but 10 lbs dosage is easy to extrapolate as I just make up enough food for that amount. Thank you for the info! I haven't read thru the whole article yet, but I will be soon! I really need to find someplace that sells this soon, tho I know I've seen it before. I will be checking out GNC soon. I do not know what 'extrapolate' means either, or how to make 10lbs dosage work for 4lbs of ferret (I'll end up just feeding this to both if thats ok?) I am now feeding the NV raw frozen and the Evo 95% canned together at feeding time. I supplement with egg shells and crushed taurine pills. I bought Nupro and made a soup last night with KMR, baby food, and PP Red and they loved it. Apple loved it so much he dragged the container across my oh-so-pretty rug and spilled it all over the place! And then he didn't even try to clean it up! Apple is fattening up pretty quickly. He is eating a lot! Perhaps that is what made him so fat back in February?! Looking down on him and Kiwi while they eat, its just such a huge difference. Apple has such a belly and Kiwi has nothing. So I'm trying not to indulge Apple with anything fatty and I'm going to try not to let him have any of the whipping cream soup I plan to feed Kiwi. Apple loves the freeze dried steaks and also eats the Ziwipeak pretty easily. Loving his POgOs as well, just got a bunch of those in. He will be happy for a long time. There's really no treat that he doesn't like! It seems it is Apple who is pooping in front of the litter box, not Kiwi. However I haven't figured out who's been doing the peeing. Apple's poops are much less seedy than they were before the canned, so thats a plus. I'm going to keep feeding the canned with the NV and start adding the Slippery Elm as soon as I find it and figure out dosage. |
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 24, 2008 23:50:18 GMT -5
Hold off on the taurine supplement for now - it's dificult to OD on the stuff, but, I suspect that canned food and has some taurine supplement and the Nupro may have it a well. The KMR is probably pretty high calorie as well. WHich canned EVO food are you using? And you're feeding mostly canned? I want to get a feel for what's in it so I can see how much taurine he may be eating. Also, if the nupro is given then there may not be a need for flax or fish oil. It's OK to mix up these treats as long as your're feeding then on different days so you're not double-dosing on various vitamins. The KMR may be fortified as well. As far as the elm bark dosage goes, 4 pounds would be a little less than half of the 10-lb dosage. If the poops are doing really well, then don't use the bark. sometimes supplements that have anti-inflammatory or immune support properties become less effective when used all the time. -jennifer I'm really glad the canned is helping Apple.  |
|
|
|
Post by pear2apple on Oct 6, 2008 9:39:39 GMT -5
WHich canned EVO food are you using? And you're feeding mostly canned? I want to get a feel for what's in it so I can see how much taurine he may be eating. Also, if the nupro is given then there may not be a need for flax or fish oil. It's OK to mix up these treats as long as your're feeding then on different days so you're not double-dosing on various vitamins. The KMR may be fortified as well. I haven't bought the slippery elm yet because then I remembered I still have the papaya and I haven't tried that yet! So I might try that soon. However, I haven't used anything in awhile. I do not add the taurine when I feed the canned or Nupro. I haven't even used the salmon oil in about a month. I mix the canned and NV together. Is that ok? It seems to be working well to help with the poops. This is the Evo I've tried so far: www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1498And I'm trying a Wellness canned No-Grain right now: www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_wellness_can_95turkey.htmlI decided to try one of each. So far, the Wellness is a bit drier and I don't think liked as much. I may just stick with Evo 95% and maybe Evanger's canned meats: www.evangersdogfood.com/dog/gamemeats.htmlNot sure yet, but I found they are sold in a store nearby. So thats a possibility, mostly for the duck and phaesant. I haven't fed the antlers yet, mostly because I just haven't thought about it, or the trachea. How do you suggest I feed the trachea? I need to give them a teeth cleaner, so I'm going to need to start feeding those regularly. Also, I gave them a Cheweasel, first time ever and they loved it! That kept them busy for days, I'm pretty sure its not finished yet even! All in all, I think things are going well with them both. Apple's poops are much less seedy, though every now and then they look funny. They still reek, but I am guessing thats all the red meat they are eating and the Ziwipeak. I hope I can find some white meat to get in their diet and balance out more. I just bought NV venison and beef and more lamb. They were out of rabbit at the store, but I'll be back for the canned Evanger's if you say thats ok. |
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 7, 2008 0:23:29 GMT -5
Yes, you can mix the canned EVO and the NV - both are balanced, so you don't need to worry about providing too much of an incomplete food that might throw things ot of whack. And as we've discussed before, it's common for IBD patients to do better with a more homogenized diet that's well mixed up.
No worries about the slippery elm bark. The elm bark should be used only when Apple is having trouble.
I don't mix supplements either. But I do rotate them. I may feed salmon oil one week and nupro's the next.
Papaya - only required for seedy poops/absorption issues
taurine - I don't feed it daily. I feed a capsule about 3 times per week.
The canned EVO looked like the best option to me.
Duck is good stuff (good taurine source)
I want to think the wellness had more carbs. So, I'd stick mostly with the evo and use the wellness for a little variety here and there if you want to
The Evanger's game looked good, although I don't think it's balanced, so it would be fed more like a treat.
You might be able to find the following...
Nature's Variety Instinct in cans is pretty good too - make sure its "Instinct" - NV has another product that has grains. . It comes in various flavors which are not polluted with chicken in some way.
Wysong's au jus (canned) is 100% meats/organs, and it's soupy (au jus) . I hear ferret really like it....a supplement - not complete diet!
Here's what I do with the trachea rounds...I cut them into pieces that are strip-shaped and mix them in with the freeze-dried foods. You may need to start with smaller pieces and work up to larger sizes. he trachea rounds are kind of touch and scratchy - good for cleaning teeth!!! So hopefully your kids will get into gnawing on good-sized pieces.
My brats like the antlers as is. the first time they got them, they were hissing and squeaking to make sure they go their treat! If your kids aren't impressed, you can rub ferretone, or salmon oil into them - they're very porous. Also, the antlers can be clipped into smaller thin pieces and mixed n with the freze-dried food as well. I recommend using wire cutters for this (you can use sissors, but it ruins them for other uses!)
If you feed the pro-zyme, it may help with the stinky poops. If feeding the prozyme doesn't eem to help, you may want to have a poop check don't the next time you're at the vets - sometimes ferrets get a little bacterial overgrowth that can be helped with antibiotics.
I"m glad both are doing well. I assume that thing on Kiwi's leg healed over again and hasn't been bothering her.
I think I covered most of your questions - please let me know if I missed anything!
-jennifer
|
|
|
|
Post by pear2apple on Oct 12, 2008 18:11:23 GMT -5
OK, so last Thursday I was reading about someone's live mice and decided I would buy 2 for Apple and Kiwi for that night.
It went well. Apple killed one and ate the feet and head. I thought that was a little odd, just the head? Anyway, he did a pretty good job of killing it, it may have been a hopper, so maybe too big for him to eat it? He wouldn't eat anymore even with Ferretone on it. So I froze it.
Then today I decide I will just cut up the mouse into chunks and stick it in a soup. NEVER AGAIN. I have no idea if he ate any pieces, but I want to throw up. The smell was INSANE! And then seeing just a spine sticking out of the body?! Cutting up pieces of tail?! I will never go whole prey! I almost threw up when I was cutting up the mouse, and again when it was in the soup. It was so bad after they ate some I just threw the whole soup away, I couldn't take that smell! I think its still haunting me. I almost threw my container away I was so grossed out!!
|
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 13, 2008 13:55:55 GMT -5
I think it's pretty common for animals to eat the heads only. We saw that with wildlife. The feet?  No clue there  I sometimes think the fur is what slows them down - I'm sure you could get them eating whole prey, but it would probably require letting them get a little hungry before they get the mouse for dinner coupled with having to chop up the mouse of at least expose the insides....YUM!!!!!  -jennifer |
|
|
|
Post by pear2apple on Oct 13, 2008 13:58:35 GMT -5
NO WAY! LOL Not gonna happen!
I will write up a schedule of what they eat, try to get some measurements of how much I am feeding for you. Hopefully I can have that for you this week or next.
I couldn't starve them because I had to be somewhere at 7pm, so I couldn't let them go without food for long and get them hungry. But in the future hopefully a few mice a month for them. I knew Kiwi would be great!
|
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Oct 16, 2008 0:53:12 GMT -5
I'm still laughing about stinky mice Both of you kids are doing really well. We need to target a feeding schedule with percentages of what you're feeding, etc. The EVO red bites will be low in taurine. It sounds like you're arriving at a feeding combination that's working for you and your kids. There are two things we need to do.... 1. we need to make sure the combination odf stuff you're feeding is balanced, and we feel comfortable with the taurine levels. 2. We need to identify any other things you may want to be feeding...chunks of meat? raw meaty bones, etc. (Again, it's been my experience that a homogenized diet works better for IBD babies, so I would recommend chunks, bones, etc. as treats only if you wish to feed them.) Think about where you want to go with feeding, and just let e know when you get a chance! -jennifer
|
|
|
|
Post by pear2apple on Oct 24, 2008 8:54:12 GMT -5
Apple's had a minor setback. This past week he's been having weird poops. The pee looked more reddish brownish than yellow, and then on Wednesday night he had a chunk of red mucous in his poop. Also, poops are STILL seedy!
So the red mucous threw me off and I stuck it in the fridge after taking photos and took him to the vet last night. There was also a piece of something hard in the poop as well. Not sure what it was.
The vet did a fecal, no parasites (nothing new there!), but he agrees there was blood in his poop. I think he passed whatever it was the was stuck in there. The vet felt around on him for awhile, said he didn't feel anything that might be a problem, then 15mins later Apple pooped and there were chunks of yellow stuff. And the yellow stuff was about the size of a pencil eraser or a piece of Evo, possibly a bit smaller. The vet thought maybe the pieces were gristle (cartiladge)? I have no clue about that, I am looking into that with the NV, and of course looking all over my apartment for other culprits. But the pieces were like small rocks, super hard and not chewed up or anything. They looked painful to pass!
I got an antibiotic and some Forti Flora, however the antibiotic is just killing the flora off I'm putting in there, so I think I will skip the flora and use yogurt until I finish the antibiotic, then use the flora so it doesn't get destroyed.
I may give some pumpkin in between the antibiotic just to see if any more is coming out. Hopefully I can come up with something better to help form up his poops.
Perhaps I will have to try the slippery elm, I just don't want to resort to feeding him that stuff everyday, I was hoping to just be able to add some canned or whatever and that would help! Sigh...
|
|
