Hershy and JD switching

[mustelidmusk]

Please be very, very careful with the ferret and the do. I recommend gettig the dog settled before introducing the ferrets if you plan to do so. In fact, I recommend keeping the dog and the ferrets separate. I' know people who let dogs and ferrets interact,and every single one of them has lost a ferret or two over the years. They all say the same thing....the feretsand the dog got aling fine for a couple of years, and one day, the dog killed my ferret. It doesn't always happen, but it happens A LOT.

Great news on the PoGos!!! They're developing a tase for the protien, which is what you want. If ershy is still picking around the Wysong's, crumble it up into smaller peices so she can't pick around it. After a couple of days with crumbled Wysong's, You may want to remove the kibble in the evening and provide Wysongs only. In the morning, ofer most raw (beef, chicken, etc. ) You may want to remove the kibble for the first time on aon a friday night. That way, you have time to work with the moist raw on Saturday morning. I suspect Hershy will eat the Wysong as well as some of themoist raw she knows it won't kil her - she's just eating the kibble because she can

I'm hoping the crickets will help bring out the carnivore in Hershy - should be hilarious to watch as well. (enrichment for humans )

Since you have all those freeze-dried goodies, you may want to try a foraging cup or two...you can read about foraging cups in the Enrichment section too. Start wih a simple up such as the JungleTalk Hide-a-Treat. Or, if you go to the end of that thread, youl see how to make a simple cup from a cow's hoof section. You can hange several of these little gems in their cage. The hooves smell a bit even without the food. If you find thehooves for making a cup, be sure to select one tha as a deep "pocket". SOme are cut too small to put anything in.
Have fun!!!
-jennifer

[suds]

after reading all the horror story's about dogs and Ferrets I don't even let my GF's dog play with them anymore and they got along great Giz thinks he is a ferret sometimes he would even try to follow them in the tunnels but wouldn't fit lol, I do plan to at least introduce them to Eli though not for playing but accidents can happen Hershey is sometimes to smart for her own good and finds ways to get past the door I even put up a barrier in the hallway to slow her down so I can grab her when she does manage to get pass the door, her latest trick was to climb up and hide in my bath robe and jump out just before you close the door grr. so I do want Eli to at least get to know them some incase they do meet on accident a time or 2 .
I do use the forage cups I got them the week you first told me about them they love playing with them even with out anything in them . and I still hide treats and stuff in different places daily its fun watching them trying to out do each other and finding the goodie's first !!! and even more funny when I don't hide anything and they check every place several times then come up to me and give that stare "like why you do it dad"
ok so the plan is to reverse the feeding cycle . they where getting only freeze dried meats in the morning and A1 in the evening mixed with some type of raw meat hidden it . so on Friday when I get home from work I should fast them until sat morning about 12hours ? then then give raw ? I found out I can grind raw meats or shred it with a attachment on my food proccer by accident lol so I been using to to grind the WysonsA1 into the raw meat I been putting in there bowl yesterday and today . Hershey picks around the big peaces but cant pick around all of it now hehe

[mustelidmusk]

As long as your kids are healthy and are at decent weights, you can fast them 12 hours. I would put a few wysong chunks out when you fast them...perhaps a 1-inch chunk per ferret as a "midnight snack". No kibble. That way, if they do get hungry, they'll have to eat the raw. By saturday morning, they should be pretty hungry and ready for more raw.

[suds]

Is wysons A1 concidered kibble? I am Just confused a little, I have not given them any "kibble " except for wysonsA1 and to coat a few paeces of meat for weeks:) actually they wont touch it anymore not even as a treat Hershy lves the wyson A1 and freeze dried beef pattie's , JD love all the freeze dried patties and rarly eats the wysons A1 , I am going to order some pingsford purage and see if they will try it . or should I wait ?

[mustelidmusk]

The Wysong is 95%meat with a little vegtable matter.I's a cold processed diet, so it's not heated up/cooked like kibbles are. The Wysong's is a raw dry diet, and it's not a kibble. It's more of a freeze-dried raw diet. It's also a complete/balance diet, so you don't need to worry about balancing muscle meat, organs, and bone.

One of the things you need to watch for when feeding a raw meaty bones diet (and even whole prey) is that all ferrets are eating mucle meat, organ meat, and bone. Sometimes a ferret will avoid certain food. For example, one ferret may be eating all the organ meat while the other is eating all muscle meat....you need to make sure the distribution of different foods is getting to all ferrets.

Are you still using the syringe with Hershy? It may be time to try another strip of meat for tug-of-war with her.

Pingford's - yes, I do recommend the porridge. It's no a complete/balanced food. It's a high calorie, cookedsupplement that can be made into soup or sprinkled on oter foods.I beleive a ferret should like a quick, easy-to-make duck soup that's cooked for times illness. The porridge is more nutritious than baby food since it has organ eat and bone. The value in a cooked food s that if a ferret is very, very sick, the extra bacterial load from raw wet soup could be a lttl overwhelming to an already-stressed immune system.
One of my first two ferrets was given chemo at the age of 3 for lymphoma. Chemo supresses the immune system and the appetite. Porridge would have been perfect, but Kim had not yet invented the porridge!!!!

Get those food games going wih Hershy - a few crickets, strips of flying meats, etc. You'd never gues I was into food fights in the cafeteria as a kid

Have fun!!!
jennifer

[suds]

I stopped the syringe feeding for a few days as you sugested ,
funny you said tug a war with meat I just put a little olive oil on a peace of chicken and was teasing Hershy with it she go to lick the oil I would pull it a way it took a while but finaly she grabbed a corner to pull it away we played this game for about 20 minutes then I let her have it she licked the oil off then left it alone ever since .....
I cant wait to try the crickets over the weekend and see what they both do !!

[mustelidmusk]

The cricket will be good for a laugh. The first time I saw my ferrets go after a n insect (big moth in the house) , I just about died laughing. Tomichi killed the moth with the speed of light and Kachina (the princess) immedately snatched it away from Tomichi and crunched it down .

Net time you play tug-of-war try a different type of meat. And when youoff the the meat at the end of the game, offer one small bite only. (If you can get JD to come over and eat i, shemay be more interested in it!!! It's can be like 2 kids with 1 toy. Hershy may feel like she's missing out when JD grabs it!)

The tug-of-war is good - use less nd less feretone over time. You want Hershy to be nterested inthe things you bring around t keep her interest up.

Have fun with those enrichments!
-jennifer

[suds]

ok so I got 10 crickets today I cleared the bathroom of all bad things in ferret line of site put Hershy in the tub with 3 crickets she ignored them so I pured the the rest on top her she could care less about them left her in there for 5 mins thinking she mite just get the ideal and be interested in them a few jump on her and she could care less , so I put JD in the tub with her it took him a minute or 2 to notice them and then took out 4 with in 10 seconds he 2 then went after a few more Hershy still could care less all she wanted was out of the tub .so I put her on the floor with 2 crickets1 jump and landed between her eye's I could not believe it and she just shruged it off and went on her way exploring the bathroom floor so I let JD out he dispatched them quickly . I had 2 left alive so I filled the tub with warm water put Hershy and JD in the water with swimming crickets JD went nuts after them but hershy just wanted out . It was worth the try I had a great laugh when she got out all wet running around trying to dry herself off like she had acid on her .




I fasted them both from lastnight at 5 pm until this morning about 9 am I cut up some beef cube and chicken thigh and breast meat smaller then a pea left half plain put it around a flat dish on a second dish I put wysons A1 crumbs smashed in a few meat pieces a few drops of olive oil on few and spread them around the plate and put them in the cage they both smelled each plate only licked the meat with the goodie's on it, I then tried to hand feed a few peaces JD ate a couple of my finger Hershy only would just smell it , I left them in the cage for about a hour nether touched them on there own I put a few peaces in there normal food bowl and hung it on the cage still no takers only smeller's . so at last ditch I put the plates in a box and let Hershy go in first she was in there about 15 mins then came out I checked and the same amount of peaces where in there she just licked the goodie's off so I picked her up put a few peaces in her mouth she would spit them out even when I could get a peace deep in her mouth . I them put JD in the box he ate almost half of the peaces while he was in the box eating Hershy did go in to see what JD was doing then came back out quickly. so I left to get the crickets hopfuly maybe Hershy will get hungry and decide to eat them I put JD back in the cage when I came back about 2 hours later still the same as when I left was in the box I left JD out and he ate more of the meat . such a trooper he is .
so after we got done playing in the bathroom I gave Hershy freese dried chicken it has been close to 20 hours since she had any food that I know of and she ate half the bowl !!
I can not believe how stuborn this little girl is !!! I ran out of freese dried beef her favorate as soon as it gets here from stinkweasles I think i am going to try moistening it more each day and see where it goes . what do you think ?

on a good note I found another foriging cup at pet smart when I got the crickets it has 2 levels I am sure they will work on it all night when I put them in for bed

[mustelidmusk]

The pictures are so adorable!!!!! Hershy was probably too busy wondering what was happening to go after the crickets!!! If you have some toys she can chase after, you can work on getting her to chase things ( feet usually work well too

Yes, I think moistening the freeze-dried beef is a god idea. start out with a couple drops of water only and see how that goes. Add a few more drops every couple of days.

Since Hershy is is taking the long and winding road to raw, you'll need to be feeding the "complete diet" forms of freeze-dried raw and/or some kibble to make sure your kids are getting everything they need. The non-balanced raw meats can serve more as a supplement/treat as well as a vehicle for introducing new tastes.

Here's a "soup formula" that will allow you to provide a balance (this can be made with non-chicken meat as well. ) It can be groundad/or mde soupy, or it can be fed as chunks.....but both animals need to be sticking to a balance.

8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat)
1 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder) (or human-grade bone meal)
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
(The egg-shell is a short-term way of feeding calcium...the bone meal has more nutrients than the egg shell. You'll want to use human-grade bone meal since animal grade bone meal has a lot of lead in it.)

There are commercially prepared raw frozen diets. I feed mostly Nature's Variety Raw Frozen (various meat types: Chicken, venison, lamb, rabbit, chicken & turkey...available in 1-oz medallion servings) and the Wysong's Archtypal I. This can by used as a stepping stone to other diets if it's too expensive in the long run.
I also know of a really good and economical chicken recipe ---if you have a VERY HEAY-DUTY meat grinder (the kind used by avid hunters).

Ground diets have the disadvantage of not keeping the teeth as clean, (I have to clean my brats' teeth about 4 time per year. I do this myself with a dental tool.) BUT, ground diet also has the advantage of preventing brats from avoiding some of the foods they NEED to be eating. Just because food disappears doesn't mean each ferret is eating a balanced diet! The good part about a well-mixed, balanced, ground diet is that it makes sure that all ferrets are eating the balance they need.

Again , you can continue to feed freeze-dried raw as the primary diet as long as it's balanced/complete. My brats eat about 50% frozen raw and 50% archetypal I.

You may also want to try taking food away again n a couple of days. In fact, you can even try the fast-switch method...Hershy knows she can eat the raw she's just being stubborn. If you fast her, the recommended time of going without food is about 12 hours of fasting before offering the raw.

As Always, feel free to ask questions since I'm sure I was a bit confusing somewhere in mydiscussion!
-jennifer

[suds]

I still cant believe 1 landed on her nose and she didnt chase it lol she loves to play with the toys on a stick she even brings them to me when she wants to play . But she is mostly a explorer though.

the goodthing the freese dried pattie's have every thing in it you can see bone and other interesting things in them when broken apart , I know hershy eats the beef and wyson A1 becuase I see her eating them all the time the A1 is expensive but if its what's best to use its worth it I did find a place that sells it by the case (12) for 171 which comes out to about 14 a bag which is not to bad and all proceeds go to a shelter so its a win win . www.ferretsfirst.org/

so I guess the plan is to slowly moisten the freise dried beef and continue to syringe some raw soup in her a few days a week ( JD eats the soup from a spoon first then goes to bowl ) . I also will continue to mix in raw with the wysongs A1 .

[mustelidmusk]

I bet Hershy learns to go after the crickets after she's been exposed to them a few times -too bad you didn't get a picture of her with the cricket on her nose That would have been priceless.

It is expensive to buy those commercial foods. Bu my brats are too good at avoiding things they don't like as well so I stick with the mixed foods. (Tonto hates bones, Tomichi hates some of the organ meats, so feeding a diet that would allow them to be picky about certain food items would make me even more neurotic than I already am - if that's possible )

If that foraging cup is green with egs poking out of it, you'll need to set it up so the groove is almost aligned with the notch the first few times they use it. Tonto is so funny because he jus whips up his front paw to push the cylinder around. I've been tying to get a picture of this - but of course he sees the camera andhe's them more interested in the camera

Just stick wit the plan for now. It's OK to let Hershy get a little hungry as long as sh's no losing a bunch of weight.

-jennifer

[suds]

Yes I will try the crickets again for sure at least JD had a blast with them . How did you know I got the gerren foraging cup ? Hershy had it opened in 2 minuts with her nose lol . JD just bats at it lol

any way no changes in food area , tomorrow the beef pattie's should be here and I can start trying the slow moisting proccess , Next Sunday I going to see what JD will do with a wing ding ( very small wings and leg ) I use them as snacks for the football games I am going to put a couple on the side for JD and cook the rest for me hahaha but he just mite go for it never know unless you try

[mustelidmusk]

I knew you got the green foraging up because I have ESP
Actually, I'm always checking for new types, so I know which stores carry what. Isn't it cool to watch them play with those toys? My brats were moving the bins around the room to access the tops of the furniture - I had to move some furniture out of their room since they got so outta control somebody was going to get hurt. Shaman is starting to fill out for the winter so he now has to enter the ducting tubes slowly since they just compress n if if he enters the tube fast...this annoys him when this happens, so he backs out, grabs the rim of the tube in his mouth and races backward as fast as he can to stretch the tube out again - I was amazed!

Try stuffing a little meat or baby food in the side of hershys mouth every once in a while while she's playing. Set up a bunch of stinky things - even water with a tiny bit of baby food in it (or meat). show her all the stuf - play with her using all these things. Don't worry about getting lots of food in her mouth. I quick scruff with a little taste is fine - keep this session fun for her. Do the same wth JD so Hershy can see that JD is living through this as well.

Definitely try the wings with JD. the pointed tips are mostly cartilage rather than bone. If the wings seem too big, or the part of the wing that has two parallel bones in it seems like a bit much for JD, cut the wing segments in half lengthwise to make longer, thinner strips. It will help them learn to eat bone. Offer some to Hershey too sometimes a ferret will just start eating meat with more "advanced" foods. Hey, we're talking about ferrets - they never cease to amaze me with the things they do!

When you get the beef patties, put very little water on them. Break off a piece, pt a little water on it and let it soak in. put only one piece on the plate at a time - let JD take the pieces if he wants them...it may help build a bit of healthy competition between the two such that Hershy may try to steal JD's food

Keep up the good work!
-jennifer

[suds]

yes it is fun to watch them playing with foraging cups I have 5 now I can rotate with Hershy discoverd she can open my dresser now. I have eyehooks on them the ones with the springs >:(I think she learns to much from the foraging cups sometimes.. so now I have to remove the items from my junk drawer


Ok I finaly got some more goodie's today. I put the beef pattie's in there bowls I got 1 in the fridge wrapped with a moist paper towel I will give that to them in the morning . They spotted the new bags of pogo's and managed to steal a bag I actually had to fight to get it back then they both ran up to the top leval of there cage and gave that guilty look I had to give in and give one they only get treats if they find them or when its bed time and they are caged for the night .

oh the wings and legs are the sise of my thumb very tiney but they make perfect hotwings

[mustelidmusk]

The foraging cups DEFINITELY result in bratty behavior - they get smarter when they solve problems, and the really enjoy it. So, they start looking for more "problems" to "solve". I ended up having to remove furniture from the ferret room.

If you can warm the moistened food just slightly (no microwave hot spots and burned tongues), Hershy may be more interested. Let her get a little hungry by morning, and show her a few "stinky items" to get her inetrested in what you have to show her. Then offer the food. (fingers crossed - toes too!!!!)
Let me know how it goes!

-jennifer