Hershy and JD switching

[mustelidmusk]

Sounds like a good plan. Also, in the midst of playing with them offer them some strange smelling stuff - especially Hershey. It get's them interested in more things - including food. It helps make the more flexible with respect to accepting change, and they start to look forward to and expect new enrihments.

Then they'll come running to you for their excitement for the day, and they'll take anything you offer!!! It becomes a strong bonding and trust thing!!!

Also, If hershey doesn't like the soupy food, she may accept meat pieces about the size of kibble. (especially if you crush the kibble and roll the meat in it. press the crumbs in to make a breaded like coating - she mak like that.

Have fun!!!
-jennifer

[suds]

lastnight the cage bowl only had Archetype in it .some was eaten .this morning I put only Archetype in the bowls (cage and play area). Not much was eaten when I came home but they both came out of the cage on fire today running around war dancing like crazy not normal for Hershy she normaly checks all her hidyholes and smells my clothes to see where I was ,but today she was crazy . JD well he always is hyper for a hour or 2 then goes to his favorate sleeping spot and takes a nap ,but he been going strong now for 3 hours actually driving me crazy lol. why is it they must tip over every glass that has liquid in that they can get there paws on ?
anyway there play and energy level is way up today . but not much food was eaten should I expect this with Archetype? I mean lesser amounts of food intake?
Since there seemed not much was eaten and they where playing so hard I thought I would try the babyfood and and raw chicken soup .
Babyfood first I put some warm water in it to thin it and bring temp up a little JD and Hershy both came over to check it out put there noses in the cup they just smelled then went about there busness. so I picked hershy up put a little on her nose , she did the head thrashing thing I let her go and she did the belly craw acroos my bed to clean her nose urrgggggg! So I tried to get her to eat some from my finger nope not going for it . tried with a spoom\n she smelled then ran away for her life lol. I wanted her to at least taste it so I got the siringe scruffed her and gave her a few mouthfulls to taste it .waited a minute then put her down .at least this time she did not do the hacking I am dieing thing she did before just looked at me with a look like "now dad are we done !! then ran to her tube and chased JD out . I guess she knew it was his turn lol
JD took a lick from my finger , and took a few licks from the spoon but would not take it from the cup on his own . He just wanted to go and play I swear he was like ok now I did nice and tried it so can I go and play ? too funny theese guys are .
I did not try the chicken soup thought I give hershy a break and try it tommorrow . Saturday I will try the coated meat with crushed kibble to see if they will take it I mite get lucky . but I got the feeling Hershy will not do anything easy and it will be xmass before she even will except soup lol

I just worry becuase it seemed not much food was eaten in the last 12 hours or so, But there energy level has been more then I ever seen so I probly am just paranoid .

oh and Hershy took a piece of pogo rabbit from me in her mouth !!!she didnt eat it but I am happy she took it deep in her mouth and had a taste of it not spitting it out rite away . JD took a big peace to his Hidey hole which means he will more then likely eat after he terrorizes me for a while.
~

[suds]

ok so now I can not keep there bowls full !! I filled them thurs night and they where empty in the morning.,I filled them when I left for work and they where empty when I got home . filled them when I got home and had to fill them before I went to sleep. and yep had to fill them again this morning and Hershey ate half a bowl wow!! they are little piglets now lol .
so this is day 3 with out kibble !!!!!! They now seem to love Archetype can not get enough I just wish it came in bigger bags !!! I broke up a country fresh beef patty and put some in each bowl (JUST A FEW PINCHES) and mixed with the Archetype HOPEFULLY THEY WONT PROTEST IT !! I will increase the amount over the next few days that will give them beef flavor .Which would be 3 different tasting freeze dried meats in a week .
BTW I have almost a full bag of zupreem premium (8lbs bag) if anyone near the Philly area would like it pm me. I would be glad to give it to you .
I have a 1/4 bag of Evo but I will keep it incase there is a setback and I can use it to try and get them to eat raw fresh meats . I hope I never buy another bag of kibble again .Archetype is very expensive but its much more better for them so its worth it to me . Plus it will make me work harder to get them to RMB soon as possible to cut down on the cost

Jen , should I get another locking bowl to use for rehydrating some of the Archetype and patties a little at a time to see if Hershey will take to wet food that way to ? its to expensive to waist but to try small amounts would not be to bad. I am thinking maybe if I keep some wet in there cage always sooner or later she mite try it ? That is if JD don't be a pig and eat it all up to fast lol .But they like to compete on treats and smells so if JD eats it maybe Hershey will eat just so he don't get it ? No matter what I have in my hands when I enter the room they both run over to see who can be the first to see what I got .. nothing like having 2 ferts trying to climbe up you leg at the same time even when wearing shorts ouch !!

As soon as I find out whets for dinner I will take few peaces of the meat and try it with powdered kibble and with out .I will let you know what happens . I am thinking maybe in a few weeks and I know they are good and healthy I will fast them and try soup or raw meats that way too it mite be what Hershey will need as a motivator ..

[mustelidmusk]

I'm not surprised ou've had great luck with the Wysong's!

It won't hurt to leave a little wet food out, but I wouldn't mix Wysong's in yet - so expnsive!!!

For the rawmeat, here's wha I recommend first...

get some meat..dark chicken meat more nutirious, more fat more taurine - thighs are really good) Or beef is fine too. Cut tidbits of the meat into kibble-sized pieces. Get a saucer or a lid from a tupperware or cottage cheese container. Thi will be their "plate". If ou have small plastic lids, give each fert hi/her own plate.

Here's what to try...
since the food bowl is empty morning and evening, offer plain, raw meat first. Spread about 6 bits of meat out on the "plate" and see if they go for it. If so, put a few more pieces on te plate for them. Keep doing this until the lose interest. The, you can offer the Wysong perhaps a liitle less than usual.

If they don't accept the meat in plain form, coat each tidbit in the archetypal 1 crumbs. Press the crumbs firmly into the meat. Offer they spread out on the flat plate.
Make and offer the tidbits a few at a time - less waste that way. ALso, you'll be able to to see who eats what.

The idea hear is to get your ferrets geared tward eating two raw meals per day - morning and evening. Later you may want to leaving ome raw out during the day, but uneaten raw after the initial meal will lkely be stashed. This is why a lot of raw feeders feed two raw fresh meals a day (sometimes under supervision). They commonly leave out a small amout of freezed dried meats or freeze-dried complete diet as a snack for between meals.

Raw fed ferrets do not require access to food 24 hours per day since the hi protien/fat will sustain them throughout the day( unless there are health issues). However, kibbl-fed ferrets are typically nibblers. So they have to adjust to eating larger meals.

The reason for spreading food out on a flat plat is two-fold...
1. kibble-fed ferrets are used to picking up 1 piece of kibble at a time. This is easy to do with hard dry food. The soft wet foods are difficult for ferrets to manage at first since it's not like the food they're used to eating. Wet food tends to stick together more and it's more difficult to pick out a single piece
2. Wild carnivores instinctively pick meat very gingerly when they first start eating their prey because their pray mey not be dead. It that's the case, the predator an receive a nasty surprise and get injured by its prey. Alo for both hygiene and safety reasons, predators end to shut/squint their eyes when they eat.

In short, I've found that many ferts will resist eating meat from a deep bowl when they first learn to eat raw. Ferts will be more likely to pick up an isolated bit of meat from a flat open dish. I supspect a pile of meat may trigger an instinct to be wary of "digging'in", which is a skill that's ot developed when eating kibble.

Just to let you know, I will be working 12-hour days for the rest of this month. And I'll be unavailablbe over the next 2 weekends. You'll do fine while I'm gone, but as always, please feel free to PM another me or another mentor or Giuli if you needs some help and I seem to be missing in action (I know Giuli is swamped as well!)

Have fun with the raw stuff and let me know how it goes.

-jennifer

[suds]

I understand very well 12 hour shifts come the end of sept when it starts to get cold I work alot of 12+ shifts 6 to 7 days a week ..
If I have a problem I will PM you for sure . and I can not say it enough as always thank you so very much for all your help and advise .
I will thaw out some chicken legs tonight and try it tommorrow and keep updating every couple of days

I wieghed them today
Hershy 2lbs wooohooooo She gained a half a pound since i got her
JD is 2lb 15oz

I tried egg yoke again today Hershy smelled it but did not want anything to do with it so I put a little kibble in and she picked out the kibble which is ok because i know got egg yoke with kibble its a great start

JD actually ate around the kibble and gobbled up all the yoke I cant wait to see him go after live prey instead of my legs under the covers ..

[mustelidmusk]

Ferrets are typically very dangerous when they're skulking around in blankets!!!! Even the sweetest ferrets cannot resist a chomp when they're prowling around under blankets. Even the sheer concept of a ferret under the covers terrifies my husband. If you haven't heard about ferrt-legging, look it up on wikipedia

Do you know if Hershy is eating the Wyong's or freeze-dried meats??? If so, you can try coating small bits of raw meat with the wysongs or freeze-dried meat crumbs. Some ferrets don't like soup and will start eating fresh raw chunks befre they eat soup.
Give it a shot and let me know how that goes.

-jennifer

[suds]

yesterday They had alot of fun ,they dont get the chance to be out of room much as a treat I let them escape my room and run around the house at leat 1 time a week its so funny to watch them dooking down the hall thinking they fooled me and escaped lol. anyway they played for a few hours very hard haveing almost the house to explore , then I took them out side for a few minutes to.
I figuered they be nice and hungry so I took a chicken leg apart and had a little meat from a porkchop I cut them up in kibble sise peices spread on a paper plate (2plates) left a few pieces plain, put crushed kibble on a few, , put ferretone on a few , put some lax on a few , and put water on a few spread them out around the edge of the plates. when I put them back in our room I put them on the floor with the plates . and they both investigated them for few seconds then went to play lol
I left it alone for while they showed no interest in it. So I had a thought ( scary i know) I decided to put the plates in a couple of boxes and Hershy would constently go in each box for several minutes at a time all through the night , She did not eat anypeices I think she was licking off the goodie's lol but at least she is showing interest , JD actually ate a few peices
I will continue with the plates in the dens I think It mite work in time thats a great IIdeal you had with the plates and feeding dens Thanks!

BTW they have not had kibble in there bowl since last thursday and every time iI refill there bowl I mix somthing differnt with it yeserday was pieces of freese dried beef patties , day before was chicken, today will be broken up mouse pogo's hoping all the differnt taste and smells will get them readily to taste more foods easer and i can sneek in some ground or kibble sise raw meats in it in time., another thing I did was get a big container put there favorate treats( junk treats bandit chicken treats , N-bones) in it with the pogo's , and stella and chewies freese dried treats mixed it all up and 1 time ad day I let them go into the canatiner and pick out a treat of there choice , of cource they pick the junk treats but they have to snorkle through all the other stuff to get to them hehehe and once the junk food is gone they will have to learn the rest of the stuff they been snorkling through is also a treat becuase I will not buy the junkfood again

[mustelidmusk]

AT least JD is taking some of the fresh meat. another approacoah could be to take a small amount of the kibble/freeze-drid mix that Hershy likes, crush the kibble slightly and add a tiny amount od mince raw meat . You can mince the meat by cutting it into very small pieces and pressing it into really thin /minced mush- lay the broad side of a wide butchers-type knifer on the meat and press of the blade with the palm of your other had to mash the meat up. Be bery carefuly to avoid pressing on the broad side of the knifer near cutting edge.

Try mixing a small amount of this minced meat in the a litlle crushed kibble/freeze-dried mix. Press th meats into the kibble so thry'll be tougher to aviod. Again, make only a small anmount since herhey may reject this. If she does, JD will probably help out
-jennifer

As you can see, this is a trial/error process, and the only advantage we mentor have with switching is that we've experienced more "errors" than you newbies

[Forum Administrator]

I really like the clever ways you have thought up to switch them! Awesome! Heck I'm taking a few notes. Those are some clever ideas suds!

[suds]

Thanks Guli I am just trying fun way's to fool Hershy and get her used to differnt taste and smells as Jen has taught me to make it fun for all .

ok lastnight I made turkey burgers for the grill mmmm . I took a little of the ground meat and smashed the kibble in it and coated it . Hershy with hand feeding would take a few pieces and suck off as much of the kibble then would spit out the meat .She is slowley excepting new things with out me having to force her or follow her around , Even though she has not ate any yet at least she is tasteing it now , I will continue on trying something new with what ever we are eating until I find the magic texture for her besides freese dry . But I do see progress I am happy she dont gag or have a fit anymore so in time I am confident she will get it.
JD WOW I am so proud of .He will try or eat almost anything I put in front of him ,But he was eating dogfood and fruits before I got him , he is a little firecracker into everything now , went from a terible biter to a sweet fun guy and loves attention . He will be easer to switch but I am holding him back a little because I want to give Hershy time to adjust and not having to make 2 separate meals yet.
Jen I think you are correct about Hershy will probly never like soups or babyfoods so slowly giving her differnt tastes over time it will work . .In a few weeks start to concentrate on getting JD switched and hopeing JD will show Hershy that raw meat is good and since she had all this enrichement over the past few weeks, My hope is a switch will go off in her tiny little head or she will eat it just so JD dont get it all. either way works for me lol. If this dont work we will regruop and try another approach
Plus Jen gives me all theese great fun ideals to try . If dont wont work the first time try again at a later time at the very least its a enrichment they never wold have gotten before ,its a win win for them and me

[mustelidmusk]

I'm glad you're enjoying this - I think it's fun to watch ferrets learn to accept new things - they can be so dramatic about every little thing!
I understand about not wanting two completely different feeding routines I'd be holding JD back as well.

How is Hershy doing with the freeze-dried foods? If she has a favorite, you can try taking a few small pieces of her favorite freeze-dried food, wrap them in it in a moistened paper towel, put everything in a zip-lock bag or closed container and put this is inthe fridge over night...this SHOULD make the treats moist, bu not wet. Hershey may go for a slight amount of moisture id this "recipe" works!!!

Keep up the enrichments, including flavored water. It's not so muchthat thewater will be the way Hershy learns to eat soup...it's just the enrichment factor.

Heavy cream is something a ot of ferrets really like. You can try giving about 1/4-1/2 tablespoon per ferret - it can be mixed with egg yolk, minced meats, served plain, used for coating freeze-dried foods, etc.
You want to use HEAVY cream since it has more fat and less lactose. Ferrets are lactose intolerant, but a little heavy whipping cream is a good treat, and it adds weight to them pretty quickly.

Another thing to try is changing the temperature of foods - some ferrets like their foods slightly warmed while other like cold food.
Some like wet foods, other like dry!!! Go figure

have fun and keep Hershy's little nose entertained... it takes time, but the more exposure she gets to different things, the more likely she'll start accepting new foods.

-jennifer

[mustelidmusk]

Hi!
This is just a quick note to let you know I'l be out of town Friday through Sunday. But I'll be back on Monday. Please feel free to PM the other mentors if you feel you need some help or support
-jennifer

[suds]

I have been slowly adding less Archetype and using more of the beef and chicken freese dried pattie's . this weekend I will try to some moistened as you mentioned I am still doing the crushed kibbles mashed in raw meats each night Hershy licks the meats in her feeding box but stil wont eat it lol. JD will go in there after while when Hershy is not looking and steal it , Fineky funny ferts gotta love em
BTW Jen the enrichment is working Hershy follows me around like a lost puppy dog when i first get home untill I put something in her den to check out maybe one day she will take the plunge and surprise me eating raw meat out of the blue ....

Jen I hope you have lots of fun at the Bash safe travels !

[mustelidmusk]

I'm glad you're seeing good results. And yes, this entire enrichment thing is a strong bonding exercise as your ferrets are learning that you are a source of good things! Offering foods while holding your ferret works on some kids. And one of these days, Hershy will go for it...especially if you cut back on availability of the dry foods at night (leave out a smaller snack for them at night). They'll be hungry in the morning, and Hershy will be more tempted to give things a try!

Have fun over the week end - I'' be curious to hear how the moistend food goes!
-jennifer

[suds]

ok I have come to the realization that Hershey wants nothing to do with wet foods This will be a long process . sorry Jen but I think you will be with me for months hehehe I am glad you are a very patient and fun person I can never say it enough how much knowing you are there helps thank You !

Ok here what we did over the weekend , Friday night before I went to bed I took there food away ( Hershey is a big night eater ) I put some moist beef and chicken patty's in place of it. broken up separated it was very little though. I woke checked the plate it was not touched , so Hoping Hershey was hungry ( should have been) I mixed up a egg and warmed it all she would is smell it so put some on my finger and put in her mouth she was not happy about it at all lol waited a few minutes and tried her again same result , I gave it to JD he ate half of it . so I then took the other half and mixed crushed kibble in it and tried that Hershey would not touch unless I forced it into her mouth . so next I tried a little cream and had the same result . I then put more kibble in it mixed it up was like a paste and she still wanted nothing to do with I gave it to JD he tore it up lol. At this point I know Hershey is hungry she keeps running to the bowls looking for food and her hidyholes (which I made sure was clean haha) so I get the beef and chicken I had wrapped in the wet towels and put a little in the bowls and in her eating den she would not touch she would smell it but would not touch it at all I did force her to try it though ( hate doing it ) . this al happened in about 4 hours time she finally got fed up and went in front of her bowl and did the speedbump thing!! since its been at least 12 hours of not eating I gave up and gave her dried Archetype and beef patty . she gorged herself until she could barely move ! so I know she was very hungry.
She is stubborn and will starve herself before she gives in , JD don't have the kind of will power ( I don't know many guys who do lol)

I had a freeze pop the other day and layed on the floor with it unopened she was smelling it and licking it and was fine as long as her paws didn't touch it , If she would forget and try to grab it or step on she acted like it was acid on her paws was very funny . so she is good with new things smelling them and checking them out Just refuses to eat anything with moister in it.

Should we change tactics with her ? maybe try and add a little ground meats in the bowls ? or go back to kibble and start extremely slow moistening it ? and the add ground to it ? or am I being impatient and continue what we are doing now?
Ether way I am going to move forward with JD I don't feel its rite to hold him back anymore I just need to figure out way to keep him separated from Hershey's food especially if kibble is used again. I hate the thought of kibble I feel like I am feeding rat poison now when I see it lol.

the confusing thing is I finally got some virgin olive oil and tried to se if Hershey would try and of course she wouldn't unless I forced her to once, then she was following me around for more go figure its wet !!


P.S. how was the Bash