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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 21, 2008 22:21:53 GMT -5
Okay, that is great that Wysong and Nature's Variety are balanced. I think I might try switching Ernie to one or the other since he is having such a hard time. I am concerned since he still isn't eating bone or anything on his own and at this point I just want him to be happy and healthy (which don't usually go hand in hand).
With Wysong, to you recommend feeding it dry or wet? He is currently eating food with a wet consistancy.
With Nature's Variety, how large are the chunks in the packaging? Would I add water to it to make it soupy at first? Which recipe is best or is it good to rotate?
In your opinion, which choice would be best? It seems like NV would be a easier switch. I can get both in the same shopping area (how convenient) and maybe even at the same store. If they are the equilalent, then I will probably choose the cheapest. Your thoughts?
As far as leaving food out: I would like to leave food out for them all the time but Didjer and Ramona stash chunks of meat in their room, which in a vegan household is not acceptable for me or my boyfriend or the carpet! The ferrets are used to having about 12 hours out each day, usually the night too. The past few weeks I have caged them a lot just so they can have access to their meals without access to the room, which makes me sad. The past few weeks their schedule has been like this:
9am out of cage, play time, no food access 11am back in cage, breakfast 4pm out of cage, no food access 11pm bedtime/dinnertime, locked in cage
So they have access to food at night and while I am not home.
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 22, 2008 18:05:50 GMT -5
I went to New Seasons (local health food store), Whole Foods, and Nature's Pet (local specialty pet store) looking at prices for Nature's Variety and Wysong.
Unfortunately NONE of the places I went had Wysong Archetype foods, only kibble style. The pet store said it might be something they could special order for me, which was nice.
As for NV, The pet food store carries MANY varieties, the actually gave me a price sheet too. They carry: 3 varieties of "frozen" styles, 1 variety of "chubs" styles, 6 varieties of "medallions", 6 varieties of "patties", along with freeze dried medallions in 3 varieties. They also carry Steve's Real Food, and Cascade River Natural.
Whole foods carries PRIMAL, Country Pet, Rad Cat, and Steve's Real Food.
New Seasons carries Rad Cat and their own ground raw, which isn't balanced.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 23, 2008 12:14:01 GMT -5
Since Ernie is OK with Wet food, I'd go with a complete diet wet food that has about 2% fiber and 5% vegetables or less that's suitable for cats. I'd start with the type of meat that Ernie has been eating. This will work well for the breakfast and dinner meals. I buy the medallions (1-ounce servings) for convenience, although the patties can be cut up once they're partially thawed. I think a solid chub of meat would be a pain to deal with. You'd have to thaw it, make individual servings and refreeze it. The chub is probably cheapest per pound. It depends on what you want to deal with!
As far as the Wysong goes, this can be fed between meals. (If you can find Cat daily cuisine from ZiwiPeak, Stella and Chewies freeze-dried steaks for cats, these are fine as well since they're all complete diets.
DO NOT buy the Nature's Variety FREEZE-DRIED raw... they have large bits of pumpkin seeds in them - I've even seen WHOLE pumpkin seeds in this food. These seeds could cause an obstruction!)
The freeze-dried can be sprinkled into the kibble. (even the patties are easily crumbled). Over time, slowly replace the kibble with additional freeze-dried meat. Most ferrets take to the freeze-dried foods pretty quickly since they're more similar to kibble (dry!). These foods can also be moistened. And they make great between-meal snacks.
So, figure out what products you want to use, and we'll see how Ernie resonds to them! -jennifer
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 24, 2008 15:13:54 GMT -5
Thanks Jennifer. I decided to go with Nature's Variety chicken medallions. I bought them last night and Ernie tried it for dinner. He ate it! Of course he only ate it while I held him and the dish, plus I put a squirt of ferretone in it and used warm water to make it into a thick soup consistancy.... but he ate it! Haha at least that is a start! I will start trying to get him to eat on his own now...
As for freeze dried foods... Would this be a good addition to everyone's diet? I know many people choose this. In which ways would feeding freeze dried in addition to raw be better than just raw? An employee at one of the natural pet food stores I go to said they can special order just about anything freeze dried that I'd like.
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Post by Forum Administrator on Sept 24, 2008 16:55:48 GMT -5
The benefit of having freeze dried raw available is that you get them used to an "easy to transport" food that you can feed in case of a power outage, evacuation, emergency, etc. I would recommend occasionally giving them some, heck even make it part of their diet. Its by no means necessary but it certainly won't hurt. Yay Ernie for trying the NV medallions!
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 24, 2008 23:12:09 GMT -5
Great! It would also be good if I ever leave town and do or don't take the butts with me!
This morning I left Ernie a medallion (wet down to canned cat food consistency) and when I got home he had eaten about 1/3 of it on his own! I hand fed him the rest to make sure he had gotten it in him.
Didj and Ramie as happily eating their chicken drumsticks today. The chunks are about 1.5 inch cubes.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 25, 2008 0:27:08 GMT -5
WOW - GO Ernie!!!!!!!!! That's Awesome news!!! Yes, freeze-dried is great stuff in my opinion because it does go bad when left out, it's not utterly disgusting if it gets cached , you ferret sitters will have no trouble feeding it, and it's great if you travel with your ferrets too - Downside i cost. But, it you feed it like a small treat here and there, the kids will e used to it so you can use if for vacations, etc. when you REQUIRE the convenience. Keep up the good work with Ernie!!! Once we get him eating th NV regularly, you can sneak some slightly larger bits of meat into the NV. And yes, the NV is a bit dry. I mix in a small amount of water too. -jennifer
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 25, 2008 21:08:43 GMT -5
Great! Today Ernie ate about 1/2 a watered down medallion ALL BY HIMSELF!!!
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 26, 2008 10:03:21 GMT -5
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 26, 2008 10:08:53 GMT -5
WoooHooooo!!!!!!! I knew little Ernie would come around for you - plus, what he's eating now is balanced. It can take a while for some ferrets to catch on to the raw feedings, so I've always preferred to use commecrial balanced diet for the switch - some ferrets go through phases with no bone or organ meats for a while. Even though they're still getting kibble, they can eat enough of their favorite raw diet such that they may not be getting everything they need. It's OK for a short period of time, but the commercial raw eliminates the worry!
Keep up the good work, It's starts getting VERY exciting when a slow switch baby starts taking an interest in raw!!!
-jennifer
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 26, 2008 10:08:54 GMT -5
I had posted these questions in the raw section hoping I would get a variety of answers but I guess not very many people feed Nature's Variety. Maybe you can answer them for me:
How many medallions (or ounces) do you feed each day? What are your ferrets ages and energy levels?
Ernie is about 5 years old, fairly healthy, a little underweight, and low energy. How many 1 ounce medallions do you think he will eat per day?
How do you feed NV? Obviously thawed, but do you mash it up, water it down, feed as is?
How many hours do you leave NV out before tossing?
What meat type do you feed? Do you rotate to different styles? How often?
How do I know Ernie will be getting enough protein since the package only shows about 13%?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 26, 2008 11:12:41 GMT -5
How many medallions (or ounces) do you feed each day? On average, my ferrets eat about 2 ounces per day per ferret (1 medallion in the morning and one in the evening). The also eat freeze-dried raw during the day & night. Right now, my two piggiest ferrets are a bit on the heavy side. In the summer, they eat about 1.5 medallions per day. My ferrets have their own room , and you can hear them thundering around upstairs frquently day and night - they do not sleep 16-20 hours per day. My girls weight in at 2- 2.75 lbs, the boys flucuate between 4-5 lbs. What are your ferrets ages and energy levels? My ferrets have high energy levels for their personality types. For example, my couch potato ferret that has always been a lumbering cuddle bear - even as a kit. I also have a completely rambunctious boy who is completely "off the charts" when it comes to bouncing off the walls, celing, floor, furniture, etc. But, when my "potato boy" gets wound up - look out! He's in charge and kicking butt - he gets the respect and can out wrestle and outrun my hyper boy at the drop of a hat! Ernie is about 5 years old, fairly healthy, a little underweight, and low energy. How many 1 ounce medallions do you think he will eat per day? A lot depends on if he has access to other food during the day. If he's getting the NV only, I would think that he eat at least 2 ounces per day - but it's hard to tell. It's just like people...some ferrets can just look at food and get fat. Some ferrets can eat a lot in one sitting....others cannot. How do you feed NV? Obviously thawed, but do you mash it up, water it down, feed as is? I mash up the NV, and depending on the flavor, I may mix in a little water (for example, the rabbit is dried that the chicken, etc.) I may mix in a egg yolk one day with a small bit of water, etc. How many hours do you leave NV out before tossing? I know people who leave it out for 12 hours (I would not recommend this with the additio of extra egg or cream.) I feed my kids meals, and they eat it all in a half hour - I can't deal with the raw caching all over the room - stinks bad enough in there since Tonto (potato-butt-head) loves to poop and pee in hiding spots - alll over the ancient, already-trashed carpeting . Yes, I scub, but over the years the room has a cqired an animally aroma, and my husband is sensitive to smells, so I have to keep things somewhat stink-free!!! What meat type do you feed? Organic chicken, lamb, rabbit, venison... Do you rotate to different styles? How often? I buy at least 3 different types of foods. Initially, O mashed 3 types together to get the brats used to different flavors - since chicken was the favorite, I used 2 chicken , 1 rabbit and 1 lamb (or 1 venison). This helped them get used to the different meat flavors. I always offer chicken and rabbit plus one other meat source. The Wysong has a lot of beef, so I don't feed the NV beef. I use mostly Wysong for freeze-dried, but I swap in STella and Chewies steaks (chicken and lamb). I no longer mash and mix up the medallions since the kids eat everything. How do I know Ernie will be getting enough protein since the package only shows about 13%? 13% protein is not what it appears to be compared to the 35%-50% you seee on kibble label. Kibble is calculated on a dry mater basis (no moisture) If you convert the NV to a dry matter basis, you'll find that the NV has approximately 40% protein, and mouse has approximatey 50% Please remember that, with a whole mouse, the fur counts as protien, but it's not available to the ferret as a nutrient source since they poop it out along with other non-digestibles. Please le me know if you have any questions. -jennifer
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 26, 2008 15:39:49 GMT -5
Ah! I had always wondered about protein in wet food vs dry food. I always wondered why "high quality" canned pet food could have such little protein in it! Why didn't I ask sooner? DUH! Thanks Jennifer, mystery solved! That makes me feel a lot better. Thank you for answering my other questions as well. This morning Ernie ate an entire medallion withing about 7 minutes all by himself. I am so proud. I might be crazy but I feel like his has gained a TINY bit of weight and a TON of energy in the past two days of feeding NV! But as I said, I might be crazy (heck, I know I'm crazy!) but I feel like I have seen a difference already! I mashed up another medallion for while I was away from home and he ate over half of it in the 4 or so hours I was gone. He likes it I think I will give him a week of just chicken NV, then start trying a few other kinds. I will definitely be looking for a freeze-dried food withing the next month but I want to give him plenty of time. Any suggestions for how to get Ernie and my other fuzzies to try free-dried? I know Ernie still likes kibble texture (he still tries to hunt for dog food bowls) if that helps.
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Sept 26, 2008 16:25:05 GMT -5
Also, which freeze dried food would you recommend most? I want something high quality, but money is a really big factor right now. I'm pretty sure I could get just about anything from my pet food store if they special order it.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 26, 2008 21:58:09 GMT -5
Actually, I know a number of ferret owners who feed the AFS cat diet, an they're very pleased with the product - I think it's cheaper. Stinkweasels is having a good sale on freezedried right now...if you order a couple of thins form Stink weasels, it may be cheaper than a special order from your store - even with shipping. Ive never tried the AFS since I can't find it locally, and I started out with the Wysong and just stuck with it since I've been ordering it online (by the case!) I've heard good things about all of those produts - I think the AFS is the only one that is noticeably cheaper in cost, an I hear it's very good stuff. I recommend either mini patties or the larger patties since you can always crumble them into sprinle abd chewing the DRY patties helps clean teeth I recommend that you look at stinkweasels.com He has the best selection of reeze-dried at one site, and he has 30% off of good prices already. I hope he's not going out of business! Check it out and lt me know if you want more input on anything. -jennfer
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