The what's, when, how's and why's of raw feeding.

[harrisi]

So I was originally "TheSlave" and the boy scout (sorry couldn't resist ) "Harrisi". Our accounts got deleted as we hadn't been on in a while, and sorry! I was having problems at home, so went to live elsewhere and it left both me and Harrisi without internet (he used my computer/laptop), but, now I am back to annoy you again! But seriously, we have been doing LOADS of research on raw feeding, so here goes:


The What's?, When's?, How's?, and Why's of raw feeding
(whole prey and otherwise)

Why?
I am sure we have all heard it - “why do you feed a raw diet?” - well lets take a look, shall we?

1. What brought raw feeding to heart was how the ferrets reacted around it - I had never seen them fighting over food before. It was (In a strange way) lovely to see them fight over something they loved, I had never seen that with kibble.

2. It is the safest, healthiest and best option out there. No matter how “complete” kibble gets, there is also tons of bad stuff in dry food - you can’t get that with fresh raw feeding.

3. Save money! Me and my friends paid £9.58 per week on ONE ferret when they are kibble, now I feed 2 for £4.32 per week.

What can I feed?
Pretty much anything! Rabbit, Rat, Guinea-Pig, Quail, Turkey, Chicken, Tripe, Cow, Lamb etc.

When do I feed raw?
EVERYDAY!
We have been told many times that what I was doing was going to slowly kill my ferrets by feeding raw everyday - ha! that’s rich considering at the time my ferrets had been living for 9 years on raw food and hers died at under the age of 7 on kibble, and she had top quality breeding lines…mine were from backyard breeders!

How do I feed it?
Simple! Raw and fresh!

But stop a minute! Its all good, yup! But make sure you have the right things planned out. You can’t go throwing in any old food when you want to. First you need to sort a staple diet, and find where you are going to get the food. Phone around butchers, abattoirs etc and see what they have left. Butchers often have beef shin, lamb heart, turkey necks, chicken necks, beef heart etc as do abattoirs, so that is a good start. But then you can buy packaged (fresh and frozen, but make sure it hasn’t been washed etc) meats from a supermarket, or phone a few local gamekeepers or even visit some farmers and try to get a few phone numbers or email addresses for them and see if they have any left over pigeon, pheasant, duck, venison etc. from a shoot.
Next you need to take a look at what you are going to feed. Different foods contain different levels of vitamins, nutrients, minerals and calories. You need to find something to suit your ferrets, how much you need to feed and all that kind of stuff. All ratings are based on nutrition, suitability, how easy they are to get, prices etc. So lets start of with some popular foods (NB: ALL of these foods should either have added bone meal or be given with bones, if the ferrets don’t eat/chew the bones then they will need the bone meal):

Chicken - without a vitamin supplement from else where chicken can actually be a very poor food stuffs despite claims that it can be fed exclusively, however it is GREAT food for minerals. Calories, protein and vitamins are relatively low, so your ferrets would need to eat at the least of 4% of they’re body weight in order to get what they need - but we still wouldn’t be comfortable just feeding it alone, but that’s just us.
6/10

Beef - Good all rounder food. Especially the hearts, they are average for calories, vitamins and minerals and its very tasty so food for sick ferrets or when you are just changing over food.
10/10

Lamb - This isn’t our favourite thing to feed, we find our ferrets get slightly bloated after a meal when we feed it, but maybe that’s just ours? Either way, its tasty, and an average all round food.
8/10

To Be Continued

(PS. Sorry for the mix beetween "we"s and "I"s. Some of it we wrote on our own and some we wrote together..or should I say wrote whilst on the phone to each other lol)

[harrisi]

Now for some of the more adventurous foods, you may have to look “further a’ field” for this kind of stuff:

Tripe - ----EDIT----

Quail, Rat, Mice and Guinea Pig - VERY rich food, sweet and tasty! Can be fed everyday however we suggest no more then 4 times weekly and again, it’s a very rich food to feed everyday without any mix. Great for ferrets that need a weight boost also and sick ferrets.
9/10

Rabbit - Great food, all round good nutrients, not expensive. Calories are not very high however so we wouldn’t suggest feeding it as an everyday food without a mix.
9/10

Venison - Again, great food. Can be easily fed exclusively along with the bones. Average protein so is good for growing kits as they can eat as much as they want! However often ferrets take a dislike to it and it can be expensive
8/10


______________
Hope some of this is of use. I will post more tomorrow or something but its 00:04 and I NEED my bed!

M xx

[sherrylynne]

Hi! Welcome back to HF. I'm glad you found your way here again . You do have some interesting info on raw, but I found I have to disagree with you on some things.
First, I didn't realize chicken was supposed to be so low in proteins, as well as vitamins. Also dark meat and the heart has taurine, which they probably need(not conclusive, but why take the chance?). The liver is also good for them, with the vitamin A, just not more than once a week.
Second, I believe rice is completely uneccessary, even as a mixer. They make no use of it whatsoever.
Third, whole prey can make up to 90% of their diet, so I'd say 6 days out of 7, not 4, sorry
Fourth, I really don't think ferrets can eat deer bones. A little bit to big for them, I'd think ! Unless I misunderstood your post(more than possible with me !
I do definitely agree that beef is good, especially the heart. As is rabbit, and venison, as well as pork!

[harrisi]

Chicken is lower in protein and vitamins then many of the foods available, but as we said if you feed enough and the ferrets eat enough it can be a good food.
I dont get what you mean about the dark meat and taurine though? They do need taurine, and most the foods mentioned has taurine in, and I have also put in about using lamb and beef heart, wich is great with taurine?
I will be adding in about using organs, but that is *still* a very touchy subject beetween all of us (we have been talking to an exotic vet also) so will be added later.
Rice dosen't give anything but protein, but it also dosen't do any harm if strained and boiled and the ferts seem to enjoy it..but as said. 90% tripe 10% rice, no more!
Deer bones can be fed, just take the meat off the legs and neck, then break it up with an axe, freeze what you dont need.
The reason we say about not feeding those patricular foods (mouse, quail, rat etc) is that it is very rich...We will be putting up the reason we said about not feeding more then 4x per week.
As for pork...the reason I never put that in was because it is often difficult to find (at least around here?) fresh, its usually washed, slated or seasoned.

[pear2apple]

Nov 6, 2008 7:04:42 GMT -5 @harrisi said:

Rice dosen't give anything but protein, but it also dosen't do any harm if strained and boiled and the ferts seem to enjoy it..but as said. 90% tripe 10% rice, no more!

As for pork...the reason I never put that in was because it is often difficult to find (at least around here?) fresh, its usually washed, slated or seasoned.

Rice may give protein, but its plant-based and therefore not useable/digestible for ferrets. So it gives nothing. Really its just a filler, thats how I see it. I would just skip the rice completely.

I wouldn't feed tripe either. What kind are you suggesting? From what I've been told there are different types and some have no value to ferrets, while others might provide a little something. Also, I hear it smells incredibly rank.

Pork is very easy to find, its not seasoned, you can buy it raw at any grocery store in my area. I have no idea what 'slated' means either.

Also, rabbit is fairly low in taurine, whether or not that is a good protein source, I am unsure, but its low in taurine and shouldn't be used as a staple. Though I know in the UK its used almost daily, perhaps there is a difference with UK and US rabbits? Not sure. But thats something to think about when feeding mostly rabbits.

I have never read anywhere that it is ok to exclusively feed chicken. I don't think anyone on here believes that either because its been pounded into us (no offense!) that variety is key to a healthy diet. Each meat provides different benefits, so feeding just chicken, you may be missing out on key elements of their diet.

I wasn't quite aware mice and rats were 'rich' foods as they can make up a pretty hefty part of the diet each day. I know people feed mice, like Sherry said, 5-6 days a week. Not to say they feed only fuzzies, I know they feed different ages for the different benefits from each. Thats again the key, variety in age, size, and nutrients from each prey animal.

[harrisi]

Thats exactly the point of rice
As for tripe, not sure what its like there, but tripe here is basically a mix of lamb, pig and cow - heart, fats and other organs, mainly heart though. Tripe dosen't smell anymore then say..pork.
"Slated" was meant to be "salted"...around here its near impossible to get fresh pork that hasn't had something crazy happen to it. Rabbit is low in taurine, hense you wouldn't feed it everyday without it being mixed, but at one time my fuzzies had rabbit everyday and then a few peices of beef, rat or quail mixed in. And yes, quail/rat/gp/mice is pretty rich, as is things like pigeon etc. It can be fed daily with a mix of "lower key" food but a ferret dosen't need loads of richness in they're diets.

[pear2apple]

Nov 6, 2008 10:09:26 GMT -5 @harrisi said:

Thats exactly the point of rice

As for tripe, not sure what its like there, but tripe here is basically a mix of lamb, pig and cow - heart, fats and other organs, mainly heart though. Tripe dosen't smell anymore then say..pork.

Theres no reason to add any 'filler' to their diet, thats the whole point of feeding raw. So if rice is just for filler, why bother? Fur could act as filler, and it does for those who feed whole prey.

Tripe in the US is beef stomache. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripe

So yes, it smells disgusting with not much value to it.

[harrisi]

Nov 6, 2008 10:20:51 GMT -5 @pear2apple said:

Nov 6, 2008 10:09:26 GMT -5 @harrisi said:

Thats exactly the point of rice

As for tripe, not sure what its like there, but tripe here is basically a mix of lamb, pig and cow - heart, fats and other organs, mainly heart though. Tripe dosen't smell anymore then say..pork.

Theres no reason to add any 'filler' to their diet, thats the whole point of feeding raw. So if rice is just for filler, why bother? Fur could act as filler, and it does for those who feed whole prey.

Tripe in the US is beef stomache. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripe

So yes, it smells disgusting with not much value to it.

I have never used rice, others have fed the ferrets rice, but I havn't but the vets have found it a sucessful meal without any "down falls" as such. And also I will have to edit to say about the tripe in the US. But its different here so how was I to know?

[pear2apple]

If you don't live in the US, its not a big deal for you not to know what it is, best to define what you are talking about so we are all on the same page.

If you have never used rice yourself, I wouldn't recommend it to other people. Feeding rice, corn, and other grains have been known to cause cancers and insulinoma in ferrets. That is DEFINITELY something I would skip when providing a healthy raw diet to ferrets. It provides absolutely nothing to their bodies, so it has no value, therefore you are feeding them waste, just something they will poop out and hopefully not get stuck anywhere along the way out.

I know exposing them to minute rice is a huge problem, if they swallow them they swell in the stomach and can cause a blockage. Now obviously, you mean long grain rice here, but why bother when they can't use plant matter? Besides the fact that its not raw! You are choosing a raw diet to give feed them according to the whole prey model and they don't stumble upon cooked rice in the wild and chew it up.

Often ferrets do love foods that are bad for them, so you can't rely on their sense of taste to know what is and isn't ok to feed. I find it surprising that your vets do not realize the relationship of rice and grains to cancers in ferrets.

[Heather]

I"m probably jumping into this a little late but here goes. Green tripe is a very good food for a carnivore. Smells like s**t...pardon my french but it's true and here's my documentation
**So how can something so disgusting, be so good? These same gastric juices & enzymes not only aid the animal in digestion, but also aid the dog in digesting & efficiently utilizing his food. The amino acids are necessary for muscular development &, the other gastric juices, I believe, are the best cleaner for their teeth!

In an analysis of a sample of green tripe by a Woodson-Tenant Lab in Atlanta, Georgia, (see end of this article for full details) it was discovered that the calcium:phosphorous ratio is 1:1, the overall pH is on the acidic side which is better for digestion, protein is 15.1, fat 11.7 & it contained the essential fatty acids, Linoleic & Linolenic, in their recommended proportions. Also discovered, was the presence of Lactic Acid Bacteria. Lactic Acid Bacteria, also known as Lactobacillus Acidophilus, is the good intestinal bacteria. It is the main ingredient in probiotics.**
I feed green tripe, some of the ferrets really get into it. It is nutrient rich and very good for them if they will eat it. Now, the white or bleached tripe has absolutely no use for them at all. That is the tripe that most people find when they first start looking, it's cooked and bleached. It has zero nutritional value and is a waste of money. Green tripe isn't available at any store except specialty pet food stores...you can also buy it canned but I"m not sure of it's value as it has to be processed to be put in the can. I get mine fresh through a coop.
I would never feed rice, it's very difficult for a carnivore to digest, but if you want to add bulk or simulate a fur type food while feeding whole meats then feed squash, or pumpkin...neither is truly utilized but it does feed the gut bacteria which is very necessary when you're dealing with an IBD or ulcer prone ferret. It does no damage if fed to a healthy ferret, so as I have a couple of sensitive tummy ferts, I feed one or the other in my raw ground mix. It also helps my 20 yr old siamese cat who eats that food too . Obviously, tripe means different things to different people in different places Where I come from it's the ground or cut up stomach of a ruminant. I can also get something that is called an offal mix, also referred to as tripe but is a mix of heart, lungs, kidney, liver and a very small amount of tripe (stomach). It doesn't smell bad...well that depends on how sensitive you nose is
Anyway, that's my input at the moment. Have fun guys
ciao

[pear2apple]

Nov 7, 2008 0:40:46 GMT -5 Heather said:

Green tripe is a very good food for a carnivore. Now, the white or bleached tripe has absolutely no use for them at all. That is the tripe that most people find when they first start looking, it's cooked and bleached. It has zero nutritional value and is a waste of money.

OK, now I see where I messed up! On FV we were talking about fish and tripe came up, and I misread and thought it said tripe was bad and had no value, in fact it says white tripe has no value!

So thank you heather for distinguishing the difference!