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Post by Chelsea on Nov 4, 2008 10:26:45 GMT -5
Im sort of new to ferrets, but not to natural diets. My dog Bailey eats an all raw diet, and I absolutly love the benifits and will never feed him "dog food" again. I posted all about how I got my new ferret in the intro section. If you havent seen that, to make the story short we found him outside, he was skinny. Ive had him for almost 2 weeks now, hes eating cheap ferret food (thats all they had at the store, cheap food is better than no food). But hopfully thats going to change. Ive been feeding my dog raw for a long time and I know alot about it. But I know pretty much nothing about a natural diet for ferrets, thats why Im here Do you think its to soon to try switching him to a natural diet. Should I wait until he "settles in" some more? He doesnt seem to have any interest in killing/chasing/playing with things (like crickets and superworms on the floor -reptile food-) he wouldnt even eat a piece of cooked chicken i tried to give him(I think in his old home he was fed crap food, because thats all he'll eat) I bought him treats and he wouldnt eat them, and I got ferret tone and he wouldnt touch it. I kinda forced some into his mouth and now he loves it. I put some on a treat and once he ate it, he loves those to. Then i tried some better quality treats and even with the ferret tone, he refused. So heres some questions I have, thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. High quality ferret food is pretty expencive, and its the same for dog food. What ive found with dogs is that feeding raw, is cheaper than buying high quality kibble. Is it the same with ferrets? Ive been reading a little bit and heard that people raise/breed mice for them to eat, does that make things cheaper? (Im an animal lover, I would never myself kill an animal, but I wouldnt have a problem feeding live to my ferret. It seems more "natural") What different types of meat do they need?(chicken, beef...mice?) Which is better, feeding just raw meat (like I do with my dog) or live whole prey? Does feeding live prey make them aggresive/biters? Like, would he try to eat my cats? How exactly do you feed live prey? (Is it messy, do they actually eat all of it?) How much would 1 ferret eat in a day/week? How much of a variety do they need? (So like if I bred mice for him, how much of his diet could be mice) How do you switch from kibble, do you try live prey first, just raw meat, pre killed whole prey? What if he refuses? Is there are meats that they shouldnt have? How many times a day do they need to eat? Can I feed a combo of both natural and kibble, for days when I dont have the time to prepare raw? I think thats all the questions I have for now... sorry its kind of alot lol.
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Post by razzlette on Nov 4, 2008 10:51:35 GMT -5
So here's some questions I have, thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. High quality ferret food is pretty expensive, and its the same for dog food. What Ive found with dogs is that feeding raw, is cheaper than buying high quality kibble. Is it the same with ferrets? Yep it sure is.
Ive been reading a little bit and heard that people raise/breed mice for them to eat, does that make things cheaper? (I'm an animal lover, I would never myself kill an animal, but I wouldn't have a problem feeding live to my ferret. It seems more "natural") I'm sure it would be cheaper.
What different types of meat do they need?(chicken, beef...mice?) I'm still some what new at this my self but as far as I know they can eat any kind of meet. They do need some bone in meat to help clean teeth.
Which is better, feeding just raw meat (like I do with my dog) or live whole prey? I feed raw but you can do whole or a mix of both. The whole has more benefits than the raw.
Does feeding live prey make them aggressive/biters? Like, would he try to eat my cats? I don't think it would make them more aggressive.
How exactly do you feed live prey? (Is it messy, do they actually eat all of it?) I don't know this one I don't feed live.
How much would 1 ferret eat in a day/week? I feed my 2 about 4oz of meat twice a day. Mine are still young so they may eat more as they get older.
How much of a variety do they need? (So like if I bred mice for him, how much of his diet could be mice) That I don't know. Mine get chicken wings, thighs, pork, livers, Natures Variety venison and lamb, and we just started turkey. That is all in one week.
How do you switch from kibble, do you try live prey first, just raw meat, pre killed whole prey? What if he refuses? When I got mine they were babies so I just gave them some raw chicken breast and they just ate it. So I'm not much help on that.
Is there are meats that they shouldn't have? As far as I know they can have anything we can eat.
How many times a day do they need to eat? We went from 3 times a day down to 2 times (morning and night) I hope to get them to 1 time a day.
Can I feed a combo of both natural and kibble, for days when I don't have the time to prepare raw? I think there is a time limit between raw and kibble because kibble takes less time to digest than raw. (don't take my word on it I may be off)
I think that's all the questions I have for now... sorry its kind of a lot lol. People here are great. They will answer any questions.
Take care ~Stacy
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Post by pear2apple on Nov 4, 2008 12:04:21 GMT -5
Do you think its to soon to try switching him to a natural diet. Should I wait until he settles some more? If you just got him this week, I would slowly ease him into new things, certainly don't just switch out the old food and give him something totally foreign.
He doesnt seem to have any interest in killing/chasing/playing with things Entirely possible he just is scared, still adjusting, and doesn't know what to do yet. Give it time!
I kinda forced some into his mouth and now he loves it. I put some on a treat and once he ate it, he loves those to. Good he likes the Ferretone, that will come in handy with trying to switch him to raw.
High quality ferret food is pretty expencive, and its the same for dog food. What ive found with dogs is that feeding raw, is cheaper than buying high quality kibble. Is it the same with ferrets? Yes, high quality ferret food can be pricey. However, I think raw/whole prey can be cheaper if you buy correctly. Purchase meats on sale, breed your own mice, or use your shipping wisely.
I feed live mice, but I don't breed them so its like a monthly treat. They love it.
What different types of meat do they need?(chicken, beef...mice?) Just about any meat, they do need bones though for teeth cleaning and calcium. You want to feed bones from animals about the size of chickens, nothing bigger or it cut be a problem. Chicken, pork, beef, turkey, lamb, rabbit, mice, rats, chicks, venison, pheasant, quail, etc. So many choices!
Which is better, feeding just raw meat (like I do with my dog) or live whole prey? Both. Live whole prey, or dead/frozen whole prey and raw all provide different benefits.
Does feeding live prey make them aggresive/biters? Like, would he try to eat my cats? Negative, in some it actually helps lessen the biters. Worked for me! How exactly do you feed live prey? (Is it messy, do they actually eat all of it?) I feed in the bath tub. Helps for cleanup and keeps them from stashing.
How much would 1 ferret eat in a day/week? All depends. More people will help with that.
How much of a variety do they need? (So like if I bred mice for him, how much of his diet could be mice) A good variety of 3-4 types of prey, and then a few types of boneless raw meats as well. Plus the organs.
Is there are meats that they shouldnt have? Not really, just bones that are too big for them to eat: beef, anything bigger than a chicken. Turkey necks are ok. Or anything spiced/flavored.
How many times a day do they need to eat? With kibble, leave out all day, with prey I think its a few times, and raw a few times, not too sure though. I don't really count.
Can I feed a combo of both natural and kibble, for days when I dont have the time to prepare raw? Yes, its preferred you feed only raw per meal, or only kibble per meal, not a mix of raw and kibble at the same time. But during the course of a day its ok.
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Post by bigsis7 on Nov 4, 2008 12:21:30 GMT -5
Alright I'll try to answer your questions the best I can. High quality ferret food is pretty expencive, and its the same for dog food. What ive found with dogs is that feeding raw, is cheaper than buying high quality kibble. Is it the same with ferrets? I have found that usually it is that way, depending on what kinds of meat you buy. Ive been reading a little bit and heard that people raise/breed mice for them to eat, does that make things cheaper? (Im an animal lover, I would never myself kill an animal, but I wouldnt have a problem feeding live to my ferret. It seems more "natural") It is a lot more natural. I think in some ways it would be cheaper, but as the mouse colony gets bigger, so do the costs. What different types of meat do they need?(chicken, beef...mice?) They need at least 3 different kinds of meats. Chicken, beef, turkey, pork, duck, cornish game hen, etc. are good raw meats. With whole prey mice, rats, hamsters, gerbils, rabbits, etc. work too. Which is better, feeding just raw meat (like I do with my dog) or live whole prey? Whole prey is better, cause that is what we are modeling when we feed raw meat. The whole prey doesn't necessarily have to be live. It can also be frozen/thawed. Does feeding live prey make them aggresive/biters? Like, would he try to eat my cats? Raw and whole prey can actually help biting problems. And he won't try to eat your cats. How exactly do you feed live prey? (Is it messy, do they actually eat all of it?) With the whole prey it can get a bit messy, but usually once they're used to it they eat the whole thing. How much would 1 ferret eat in a day/week? Well usually my ferret eats enough meat to be a whole chicken leg in one day. I don't know the exact weight, but that's usually how much he eats. With whole prey, I'm not sure how much ferrets would go through. How much of a variety do they need? (So like if I bred mice for him, how much of his diet could be mice) Mice could be 1/3 of his diet. Ferrets need at least 3 different kinds of meats. They also need to be different ages. How do you switch from kibble, do you try live prey first, just raw meat, pre killed whole prey? What if he refuses? I would start with raw meat and work up. A good way to start out with raw would to be cutting the meat in small kibble sized pieces and cover them in crushed kibble. Or you could blend together meat and pour it over the kibble. Is there are meats that they shouldnt have? I don't think so. Just make sure the meat doesn't have any chemicals or other stuff on it. How many times a day do they need to eat? Most ferrets only need to eat 1-2 times a day, but I have a ferret that need food in his cage all day or else he starts eating bedding and poop. This is not the case with most ferrets though. Can I feed a combo of both natural and kibble, for days when I dont have the time to prepare raw? You could, but after you get your ferret on raw it won't be very hard to prepare. Hope this helps!
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Post by Heather on Nov 4, 2008 15:30:35 GMT -5
You've got some really good answers, so I'm not going to clog things up. I do rescue and I've had ferrets come in, in worse shape than you've mentioned. As food starts to become a mainstay and the nutritional needs are met you will see a physical and mental change in your furbaby. This can take weeks, months and sometimes it will hit you a year after the fact. They don't easily forget this type of abuse. Anyone here will help you switch your furbaby to a natural diet. Is it cheaper....depends. I personally think it's cheaper than feeding top quality kibbles, maybe not up front but in the long run. My guys get ground raw, whole meat and prey. I've just started raising my own mice, and I have a friend who has snakes and that's how I get my rats. I'm thinking of maybe investing in some other prey types but I'm going to wait and see with the mice. Changing malnourished ferrets over. I do it right away. I don't mess around. Whatever richer food you feed is going to upset their stomach....so if you're going to deal with an upset stomach, you might as well deal with something they're going to at least absorb, even if it's only partially. Just be prepared. Have pumpkin on hand (not pie filling but you feed raw to your dog so you will know this), have either pedialyte or some nutrient rich broth on hand (boiled chicken broth is the best for this, I have a recipe for a natural electrolyte replacement if you need it), if you know how to administer it (I can also help you with this) you can also use slippery elm, it helps settle the stomach, it is also nutritionally dense as well. You've got a good list of what different meats to feed. How far you take it is up to you Even feeding ground rmb (raw meat and bones) is better than the crap he was being fed, but whole meat (frankenprey) is better than ground and then of course prey is the ultimate, if it's done correctly. You mentioned in your intro that you checked your ferrets teeth and you gaged the transparency of the teeth to be about half. According to my chart, that means that your ferret is about 6 or 7 yrs old. This is of course not foolproof but it works reasonably. One third clarity means that the ferret is about 3 or 4 yrs old. This may or may not mean anything about how difficult your little guy will be to switch. Shazam and Houdini (turned in to me on Halloween a few years ago, both 7 yrs old) were so emaciated that my son refused to pick them up for fear of breaking them. Shazam couldn't stand...neither had been fed in over a week I started to switch them onto a higher quality kibbles and they had the squirts sooo bad....but they were running with my guys and they started eating raw. That cleared up their tummy problems and then they started putting on the weight. They were such cute little guys but you didn't get between them and food. As far as they were concerned they were never going to be hungry again As I mentioned in my intro to you, if you want some one on one help to get your guy onto a more natural diet, check out the mentoring section. Even if you don't want to commit that much read some of the beginner information. There's a lot of info there. Then start pinging us with questions, like you've done here. We'll all answer You may get too much information some times but you will always get something I've probably missed some of your questions but the other 2 have answered your questions ... question per question and have done a really good job at it. I hope I will be seeing you and your little guy around. Good luck and thank you for rescuing him and being a friend when he needs it ciao
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Post by charmantpapillon on Nov 4, 2008 19:17:05 GMT -5
So heres some questions I have, thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. High quality ferret food is pretty expencive, and its the same for dog food. What ive found with dogs is that feeding raw, is cheaper than buying high quality kibble. Is it the same with ferrets? Yes it is cheaper. Ive been reading a little bit and heard that people raise/breed mice for them to eat, does that make things cheaper? (Im an animal lover, I would never myself kill an animal, but I wouldnt have a problem feeding live to my ferret. It seems more "natural") Yes if you want to feed a whole prey diet raising rats mice or other prey types is cheaper. What different types of meat do they need?(chicken, beef...mice?) They need at least THREE different animals such as chicken beef and mice. if you want to feed all whole prey try mice, rats, and hamsters or dwarf hamsters. If you want a combo fed a few mice a week supplementing with raw meaty bones such as wings legs thighs ect dont foget to get them organs and offal without the connective tissue and bones they have looser poopies and without the organs such as livers gizzards and hearts they wont get the proper nutrients they need. Which is better, feeding just raw meat (like I do with my dog) or live whole prey? There really isnt a difference i feed a combination of both. some feed all raw and some feed all whole. whole wuld probably be best because its what their wild relatives eat. but you can imitate that with a raw diet. Does feeding live prey make them aggresive/biters? Like, would he try to eat my cats? While feeding raw does make them more energetic it has not been known to make them more agressive. hes too small to hunt your cat and besides a cat is not a prey animal. if you have rodents however since originally ferrets were bred to cntrol the rodent population they will probably thing of your rodents as food. How exactly do you feed live prey? (Is it messy, do they actually eat all of it?) Well i know a lot o people use the bathtub to kill the mice. then whatever mess is left can be run down the drain but my little guy is a very neat killer and mice cant get through the 1/2 inch mesh on his homemade cage so i just let him kill his mice in his cage after hes done he eats his fill and deposits the rest in his food bowl for later consumption. but all ferrets differ but from what i've read its not a verry messy process the ferret catches the mouse on the back of the neck and shakes until the neck breaks and its over. How much would 1 ferret eat in a day/week? this also depents on the ferret but i think on average its about 2-4 ounces a meal. How much of a variety do they need? (So like if I bred mice for him, how much of his diet could be mice) Well if you're going to feed all whole prey you'd need three different animals say mice, rats, and dwarf hamsters (you dont have to feed these but these are the easiest to breed) How do you switch from kibble, do you try live prey first, just raw meat, pre killed whole prey? What if he refuses? This depends on the ferret here are multiple ways to switch a ferret sounds like yor boy is pretty picky. If he refuses back up figure out what he didnt like and try again. Try another method or slow down on the method you are using. Is there are meats that they shouldnt have? He can eat any meat we can. stick with human grade. i buy whats on sale at the grocery store. If you're going to feed raw you need Raw meaty bones 3 times a week (i keep them available all week so that his poos stay nice and neat) My feeding schedule is monday/wednesday/friday drumsticks and thighs with the bone as much as he will eat. tuesday/saterday is muscle meat day so he gets a couple of wings for bones with pork or beef or whatever was on sale. then thursday is organ day he gets gizzards and A live a few hearts if i can get my hands on them and possibly a neck. Saturday is gizzards hearts and a drumstick. Every few weeks he gets 3-4 mice and will eat about 1 1/2 mice per meal. How many times a day do they need to eat? whenever they are hungry they eat more at dusk and dawn than any other time so i leave food out for an hour in the morning before school for a half hour in the middle of the day and then two hours at night. that way he never goes more than 4 hours without food being offered to him and since im not leavng the meat out all day whatever he doesnt eat goes into a ziplock and into the fridge so it saves you money. Can I feed a combo of both natural and kibble, for days when I dont have the time to prepare raw? What i do is when i bring his meat home from the grocery store is separate it out into meal sized baggies (to save money i never throw a ziplock bagge out unless it has a hole in it) and freeze them. i keep 2 to 3 in the fridge thawed and when i'm down to 1 bag i throw 2 - 3 in the sink and when they are half thawed throw them in the fridge with the other bags of food that way i never run out of thawed food and therefore never have to be dependent on kibble. I think thats all the questions I have for now... sorry its kind of alot lol. Never be sorry for asking a question around here we're always glad to help and i hope this helped you =)
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Post by Chelsea on Nov 5, 2008 7:03:17 GMT -5
Wow thank everyone for the great replys. Everyone on here sure seems to know what their talking about . My only problem with switching to a natural diet for him is, money and my parents. It took me a while to convince my dad(<the one I technically live with) to let me get the ferret. But since my collection of animals is going to be going down soon, he said okay. ( Im rehoming at least 4 of my 6 reptiles. Im keeping the nocturnal ones because im around in the evening and night, but not in the day for the diurnal ones, and once its lights out for reptiles they cant eat because they need to bask. I just dont feel that im around enough in the day to give them enough attention) The ferret doesnt seem to care when im around, as long as he gets to come out and play. I get back form school at like 3. Then usually at like 3:30 I walk with Bailey to the park, and when we get back we do agility/obedience work. Then usually at around 5ish I feed him(raw). Everything has changed because it gets dark & cold so early now. Then at like 6 I go up and let mr ferret (I just call him mr ferret for now because he doesnt have a name yet) and I let him out of his cage and he usually stays out until 8 ish. (Once he understands what a litter box is for, hes going to be cage free in his own ferret proofed room. ) Im only 16 and I dont have time for a job, so the problem is the cost of raw feeding. My parents buy Baileys food already, so I dont think they would buy for the ferret too. My mom doesnt like the idea of "natural feeding". I think its just more she doesnt understand it, even though she knows thats what I feed Bailey. Im going to to convince them to let me, but my best bet would probably be to try and breed my own mice/rats/hamsters so it wouldnt cost as much. He would let me keep them in the garage.. would they survive in there with no heat? Im going to talk to them first and see what they think about the idea... -chelsea
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Post by charmantpapillon on Nov 5, 2008 7:09:20 GMT -5
Stick with dwarf hamsters they are easier to breed and live in colonys unlike full sisze hamsters where you cant keep the females and males together cause the females will kill the males and i dont know about other rodents but i know if its too cold mice wont breed as much or have as big of litters. they can survive withut the heat they just wont have the 14+ litters of pups.
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Post by pear2apple on Nov 5, 2008 9:45:08 GMT -5
Natural feeding for your dog is similar to your ferret. If she's ok feeding raw meats to your dog, it shouldn't be that different for your ferret. Also, you don't have to feed all whole prey if that is too much for her. You can feed mostly whole prey and then also feed raw/rmbs and thats a really good diet.
Like most of us said, if you buy meats on sale and in bulk it will be cheaper than feeding kibble. Plus, kibble equals more unused ingredients, more poop (sometimes really stinky), and its just over priced!
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Post by Chelsea on Nov 5, 2008 16:03:05 GMT -5
I know, but its sort of complicated. Shes "okay" with me feeding Bailey raw, but she would never do it if he was her dog. It took me months to convinve her to let me do it. She has 5 cats, and even though she agrees the raw diet is great for them, she wont feed it to them. I think she just sees "regular" food as the "normal" easy way. She didnt like it when I fed Bailey raw at first, but she got used to it so maybe she will with the ferret too.
Im going to try and bring it up this weekend and see how that goes. If they agree to let me try it, that mentor section looks like it would really help me with "the switch" when the time comes. Also another thing I just noticed, I think he might be younger than what I origionaly said in my intro. His teeth were pretty nasty, and it looked like they were more tinted than they are. After i brushed them a couple times it turns out alot of the "tint" was just tarter, and the translucency isnt quite halfway up. Im going to try to get some pics of him tonight and an upclose of his teeth if he'll let me.
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Post by charmantpapillon on Nov 5, 2008 16:07:53 GMT -5
Great good luck with the mom we have another user who has been trying to convince her mother anf father for the last month atleast to let her feed raw or whole prey to her two ferts. Parents are tough.
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Post by bigsis7 on Nov 5, 2008 16:14:58 GMT -5
I guess I sorta had it easy with convincing my parents. My dad is huge on nutrition, so it was really easy to convince him. My mom was like whatever. Well let us know how it goes!! And definently check out the mentor program if your parents say yes!
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Post by spiritualtramp on Nov 6, 2008 13:05:27 GMT -5
If your parents are allowing raw feeding for the dog, making the point to feed your ferret raw shouldn't even be much of a contest, especially because you can easily train him to eat in the cage which will ease up on the mess factor. I think explaining to them the health benefits responsibly, and bringing up that you can use much of the same schedule and foods that you are already offering to your dog will help. I also think that explaining all of the resources and help you have through this site and others will assure that you are doing the right thing for this specific animal, and that you have mentors every step of the way.
Good luck talking with your parents and please do keep asking questions!
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