Jaycee's business of 10 goes raw!!!

[Jaycee]

Ok, so...no luck last night. I think they may have eaten some of the kibble topping, but everything else has been untouched. I cleaned out the cage and replaced the food with fresh. Angel again would only lick a little from my fingers. Everyone else took one look at the bowl and ran off in the opposite direction (laughing, I think). By the time I come home, It will have been around 21 hours of trying this. If they haven't eaten anything at that point, what should I do? They can't not eat, and I know you have said not to give them the kibble. I just don't know what to do.

[theslave]

trying ferrettone on the food? Some ferrets take to it quicker then others, if you can get a small whole prey like a mouse, then play with it with them and play tug of war etc until they bite into it. Or try exposing the guts (small cut in the belly/abdomen usually works well).

Hope this helps and good luck! - I know how it is switching over stubborn ferrets lol.

[Jaycee]

I am trying the ferret tone but I am not sure how receptive they are going to be to it. As for the mouse....I'm not quite ready for tug of war...not sure I will ever be! ick!

[Forum Administrator]

Jaycee, its now time to get the feeding syringe. I know you arent thrilled with the idea, but a.)its important to get them used to syringe feeding in case they ever get sick and b.) if they arent eating it on their own, its really the only way to get them to try the soup.

Hang in there, I know its frustrating, but you'll make it through. Add the ferretone to the mix. Have you tried warming it slightly? And keep feeding angel from your fingers. Are harley and sassy still eating from your fingers too?


Since its now 24 hours since they've eaten, its time to get them eating SOMETHING. You can give them just a tiny bit of kibble or you can give them food via syringe. Get them to eat SOMETHING, then its right back to the soup.

[Jaycee]

Well, I just got home from work, and my husband has gotten both Jax and Piper to eat the soupie on their own out of the bowl. Sassy has eaten a little bit from me out of a spoon...I think she is warming up to the idea slightly. My husband said than none of my three guys (Harley, 'Topher, or Riven) would even touch the stuff. They have their feet firmly planted and aren't budging a bit. I am getting ready to find the Three Amigos, and Angel and see if I can get them to eat. It hasn't been 24 hours just yet. I still have 3 hours to go!

[Forum Administrator]

Jaycee, another suggestion!

If you have some seriously stubborn ferrets that wont even try the soup, you can try this method. It was written by one of our members (aleronferrets) She is very helpful, you can PM her if you need assistance:

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Most ferrets are stubborn about food switching but if you stick with it, they can all be switched to whatever you'd like them to eat. I have switched ferrets of all ages and some who flat out refused to willingly try anything but brand X kibble. I don't fast to switch (although I know that works for some people too) but instead very slowly transition them to eating raw food. Works of cats too My tried and true, fail proof switching plan is as follows (crossposted from another board, permisson to crosspost providing my email contact ([e-mail]) is included).

Getting ferrets to switch to raw food is probably the biggest issue ferret owners face with the diet and is a major reason more ferrets aren't fed raw. Often owners try to switch their ferret but their ferret refuses to even try any form of raw meat. It is true that adult ferrets are quite difficult to introduce a new diet to. However, through trial and error I have created a step-by-step method to switch even the most stubborn, kibble lovin' fuzzy (or cats which are just as bad) to a raw diet.

All you need to start the transition is your ferret's regular food and some ground meat. The ground meat can be either pre-made commercial raw food or ground chicken/turkey from the grocery store.

1. Begin adding some moisture to the kibble by dripping some water over it before feeding. I like to use warm water - not too hot or cold. If your fuzzy already will eat canned food you may be able to skip to step 5 by taking away all kibble and just feeding canned.

2. Add more water to the day's kibble each day as long as your ferret is willing to eat the food. Most will eat wet kibble fairly easily and I think this is because their imprinting is more about smell than texture.

3. Once the ferret is eating the kibble with enough water to make it soggy began mashing the kibble up a little bit with a fork before feeding.

4. Slowly mash the kibble up more each feeding until the ferret is eating all of the food well mashed. The mashed kibble should look almost like canned food now.

5. Only is the ferret is eating the canned-food-looking-mashed kibble without a problem is it time for this step Now you will take just a tiny bit of the raw ground meat - maybe a pinch or two and add it to the kibble before mashing. Mash the kibble as usual and be sure the bit of raw food is well mixed with the rest.

6. As long as your ferret will eats the food with the raw meat mixed in you can double the amount of raw food added about every other day. Be sure you are mashing it up well with the rest of the food.

7. At some point there will get to be a lot of raw food in the bowl and it will no longer be hidden in with the mashed kibble. That's great as long as your ferret is consistently eating the food. Once this happens and as long as your ferret is still eating the food begin cutting back on the amount of kibble in the bowl. The kibble should be cut just as slowly as the raw is added in.

8. Cut back on the kibble until there is no kibble left in the bowl. Congrats now your fuzzies will eat raw! It should be mentioned that if at any point during this switch your ferret refuses the food go back a step or two. If your ferret decides mashed kibble is yucky go back to just adding a bit of water. I think the main issue with switching ferrets to raw is to be determined that you want to do it and that the ferrets will be switched. Don't let set backs make you give up - keep trying and they will eat raw

Now if you were using ground meat from the store to switch you will need to start thinking about what foods you are going to feed. Feeding all ground food is ok for switching but bone and organs are needed for a balanced diet. Pre made raw food (with bones, organs and meat all ground) is available but it tends to be the most expensive way to feed raw. Other options are chicken necks/wing tips, livers and hearts from any number of animals, frozen fish such as smelt, mice (live or frozen), frozen chicks or rabbit parts.

I would start with something easy and try to find chicken necks or wing tips. To switch your fuzzie to eating raw meaty bones:
1. Chop the RMB (raw meaty bone such as a chicken neck) into small parts and mix it into the ground meat your fuzzy is now eating.

2. As long as your fuzzy eats the meal as usual add the chopped RMB every day. Every other day chop the RMB into slightly larger pieces.

3. Soon you won't have to chop it up at all! Once the chopped parts are quite large try just offering the whole RMB.

In my experience once a ferret will eat raw meaty bones such as chicken necks and wing tips introducing new ones isn't hard. Other RMBs you can use would be chicken wings (all parts), chicken breasts and chicken backs. These all have some bones which ferrets can eat and some which are too large and they will leave. These shouldn't make up the bulk of the diet but can be used for variety - just remember to pick up the leftover bones before company comes An important part of raw feeding is variety so try to feed different things every couple days. My raw fed guys are fed twice a day.

Switching to mice is a bit different because they don't look like regular RMBs. With my ferrets who hesitated on mice (the older ones) I held the mouse near them and when they grabbed it to try to take it I held on. This caused the ferret to "open up" the mouse and see that it was full of meat. I wouldn't try switching right from kibble to mice unless you have a ferret who is willing to try new foods.

This method of switching works so well even on older ferrets because you are introducing the raw food in phases. To start you introduce moisture where the ferret is used to dry, second you add a different texture, after that just a hint of a different smell, then a different but now somewhat familiar smell, followed by a different but now somewhat familiar texture. Doing this tricks the ferret into accepting raw food as the norm instead of something totally weird and new.

[Jaycee]

I just finished my rounds and was able to get Angel to eat a little off the spoon, 'Topher ate from the spoon a good amount, Sassy came and ate a little bit more off the spoon....and then there is Riven. Stubborn as a mule, Riven! He arched his back and kicked out his hind legs (not gonna make me, not gonna make me!) and then....the spoon was licked clean. And the next spoon full too. Then he ate from the bowl...all by himself. But to repay me, he slung soupie all on my shirt, and rubbed his muzzel all over my pants and socks before heading out to play again. Now all of my guys have had a taste of the soupie. I have more questions. First of all, how do I know if each is eating enough? I did buy a scale last week, and I can re weigh. But then, how do I know if they have lost too much weight? Also, how long should I do the soupie before up grading the diet?

[Jaycee]

And.....do I still have to syringe feed?

[theslave]

Jun 12, 2008 14:45:59 GMT -5 Jaycee said:

First of all, how do I know if each is eating enough? I did buy a scale last week, and I can re weigh. But then, how do I know if they have lost too much weight? Also, how long should I do the soupie before up grading the diet?

Just keep weighing them every 3 days or so and make sure they are eating at least a few spoons soup a day before the switch. If they loose more then 3 ounces in a week then you know thats the time they need to get more food.

2, as long as your ferrets will progress. With my 3 I got them eating soupie for 3 days, added a few peices small peices of raw meat, left them 2 days, added more, left them 2 days, added more and kept going like that until with the amount of meat the soupie just coated it. By this stage they were getting about 2 chicken thighs lightly coated with 4 tables spoons of soupie and I gradually reduced the soup. I am still using this method with my brothers 2 and my 3 get a bit of duck soupie every 4-5 days or so.

[theslave]

Jun 12, 2008 14:54:54 GMT -5 Jaycee said:

And.....do I still have to syringe feed?

If they are eating then no, if they stop eating then you need to get something into them. I think thats what Giuliana was saying.

[Forum Administrator]

Now all of my guys have had a taste of the soupie.

Whoo hoo! Excellent!

I have more questions. First of all, how do I know if each is eating enough? I did buy a scale last week, and I can re weigh. But then, how do I know if they have lost too much weight?

Well if you only had 1-2 ferrets I would say "just moniter them and see if they are eating". But you do have SEVEN, so it is possible that you could overlook someone (on accident, of course) and one could be eating less then what would be ideal.

I would still try and moniter, make a mental note of who you see eating the soupie, also, moniter litter box output. You will see less poop (because raw is more digestable) but if you see VERY little poop (as in almost no poop) then you know that they arent eating as much as they should.

You can use the scale to weigh, but ferrets lose weight this time of year anyway, so the weightloss might be seasonal, and not necessarily diet related, make sense?

Just feel everyone everyday. If you can start to feel ribs, something is wrong.

Also, how long should I do the soupie before up grading the diet?

Quill (and baby Chaos) just had great success by simply starting to add small chunks (and I mean teeny tiny) of chicken to the soupie mix (check out her stickied thread on Chaos, and feel free to PM her to ask what she did exactly, I'm sure she'll be happy to help Just make sure all your kids are really eagerly eating the soup. I would wait 1-2 more days. Make then think that soupie is just the greatest stuff in the world! Get em real excited about it, then be sneaky and start adding pinky-fingernail sized pieces of raw chicken into the mix. They might eat around it, or they might actually eat it.

You have several ferrets, so they might not all progress at the same pace. If one of them balks and refuses to eat, take a few steps back and decrease the amount of chunks in the soupie.

If you ever get to the point where you have like 5-6 of them progressing quickly, and only 1-2 of them progressing slowly, you can always seperate the 1-2 from the 5-6 and put them in a seperate cage (if you have one) this way you can moniter their progress without "slowing down" the majority of the group. Make sense?

Oh and no, if they are eating on their own, no need to syringe feed

congrats! This is great news! Keep up the great work and keep offering that soupieQ! Like I said wait 1-2 days before you take the next step and add chunks.

[Forum Administrator]

Thanks for jumping in and answering those questions for me, theslave. Its so nice to have other people help me out with answering questions! And its nice for our newbies to get input from multiple people, I find that it helps to reassure them if more then one person is saying something.

[Jaycee]

That is a relief. I hate the thought of having to syringe feed. Did that already with Piper at the start of the year. I will probably re weigh tomorrow or saturday anyway (the scale I got is pretty cool, and I like to play with new toys! This just gives me a valid excuse!)

I will probably do the soupie for a few days and slowly add larger bits of chicken. Thanks for the help!

Also, how hard it it to switch meats. Do I have to do the same thing...beef soupie, pork soupie...or do they accept raw easier once they get started with the chicken? And (yes, yet another question) what about parisites and worms from eating raw meat. Is this an issue?

Thanks again for everyone's help!!

[theslave]

Glad to help on people questions (if nobody minds ).

[Forum Administrator]

That is a relief. I hate the thought of having to syringe feed. Did that already with Piper at the start of the year.

Yeah, syringe feeding can be stressful. Luckily all my guys LIKE being syringe fed. Its almost like feeding a baby from a bottle, only the bottle is a syringe and the forumla is raw meat. Bwahahah! I used syringe feeding to bond with my kids and they actually really liked it. Maybe during a less stressful time (ie, not during the switch) you can slowly acclimate your kids to syringe feeding and get them to see it as a POSITIVE experience (IE. I get special alone time with mommy AND I get a special treat)

I will probably re weigh tomorrow or saturday anyway (the scale I got is pretty cool, and I like to play with new toys! This just gives me a valid excuse!)

LOL you are too funny! Just bear in mind that they WILL weigh less this time of year (warm months) then they will in the winter.

I will probably do the soupie for a few days and slowly add larger bits of chicken.

That sounds like a good plan. Be sure all of them are eating willingly from the bowl before progressing on to the next stage.

Thanks for the help!

No problem, thats what we are here for!

Also, how hard it it to switch meats. Do I have to do the same thing...beef soupie, pork soupie...or do they accept raw easier once they get started with the chicken?

Once you get them used to raw its a H*LL of alot easier to get them used to other meats. The switch from kibble to raw is so tough because you are introducing new textures, smells, flavors, etc. The switch between meats just involves a SLIGHT change in texture and a slight variation in taste, so its no where near as bad. You can just Get them eating chicken thighs and one day toss em a pork chop and see what happens. Make sense? SOME of them might need a little reassurance, atleast in the beginning, but it shouldnt be as difficult as it is now.

And (yes, yet another question)

We LIKE when you ask questions. Dont ever feel bad about asking questions!

what about parisites and worms from eating raw meat. Is this an issue?

As long as your freeze your meats before feeding it will kill parasites. It will NOT kill bacteria though (it just slows it down, but as soon as the meat warms up it activates again). Now, your ferrets can handle the bacteria just fine, but you cant, so always be sanitary when handling meat.

Thanks again for everyone's help!!

No problem! We are at your service!