antibiotics and other bad stuff in meats

[nux]

i am researching the whole ferret thing as i am preparing to buy my first ferret in two weeks. insanely excited, and definitely going to go raw food. however, i have a query regarding the quality of meat:

most if not all (unless it is organic and highly expensive) meats today are heavily inundated with antibiotics, pesticides from feed etc., and while i know the 'whole food' diet is best for ferrets, are there any indicators that they are effected by the additives in commercial meats?

my son and i eat organic as much as possible but cannot afford organic meats, i can't afford it for my ferret.

what say you?

[savagedestiny]

I don't know if there have been studies done, but I like to stay away from antibiotic and hormone filled meats for myself and my animals. A great way I found to get good meats for cheap is to find out if there's a local butcher around you. Often local butchers don't use as much chemical crap as big factory farms, and tend to be cheaper to boot.

[Forum Administrator]

I agree with what was said above. I understand that many meats today are bombarded with added ingredients, but they are certainly of higher quality then what is in commercial pet food. Feeding organic would certainly be ideal, but even if you cant feed organic your pet is still better off then eating kibble (where dead, dying, diseased, and disabled) -4D animals are used as protien sources.

Another way to avoid the hormones and antibiotics is to go with a WHOLE PREY diet, instead of a raw diet. Whole prey diets consist of feeding whole rats, mice, chicks, etc to ferrets. These are usually fed frozen-thawed, but can be fed live if you wish. Most people buy their frozen prey from Rodentpro.com. They do not use hormones or antibiotics in these foods, and they are the closest thing to what a wild polecat would naturally eat. Im not saying raw is bad, or if you cant go organic dont do raw, I'm simply showing you your other options. The shipping cost on the prey might give you sticker shock, but if you place a big order, it really isnt that bad.

Oh and farmers markets often have organic meat but because its costs money to get produce and meat labeled as organic, some local farmers just dont go through the trouble. Talk to the farmers market people to see where they get their meat and how their meat is raised.

Another thing you can do is take advantage of sales. When you see organic meat on sale because its going to reach its "sell by date" (or already has) snatch that stuff up! Ferrets have a stronger digestive system then use and as long as the meat isnt rotting or obviously spoiled, they can eat meat that is a day or so past the "sell by" date. I can get as much as 40% off on organic meat by doing this.

One of our members animalsgetrevenge (private message her) buys organic for her ferrets. She might have some tips for saving $$$, but I'm not sure.

I hope some of these tips help you out.

[animalsgetrevenge]

Thats so funny... as I read this thread I was planning on adding my two cents, then I see my name and I have to!

I actually don't feed organic most of the time. The deal with organic meats is that the animal has to be fed 100% organic foods in order for the animal's meat to be considered organic... Many grocery stores (even health food stores) only offer 1-2 organic meats, if that!

I buy all my ferret food from New Seasons, Whole Foods, or Trader Joes. (FYI New Seasons is a like a local whole foods to Portland, OR) The meat I buy is always anti-biotic free, free-range, cage-free, etc. When I buy from New Seasons (which is 95% of the time) the meat comes from small, local farms.

Since I am vegan, I have thought over my reasons for feeding raw meat to my ferrets many times. I have found that even if I can't afford ORGANIC meats, at least I am buying meat that is local, anti-biotic and hormone free, cage free/free range. When you buy kibble you can automatically assume it was made with scraps from chemical filled animals that suffered excessively during their short time on earth.

I would say- go to a health food store or store that has a health section and look for meats that say anti-biotic and hormone free, cage free/free range but aren't organic. They will be at least a dollar or two less per pound than the organic meats.

I also buy meat from New Seasons that humans don't eat for discounted prices. I have bought high quality chicken necks and backs, turkey necks, pork neck, for 0.50-1.50 dollars a pound. I could probably get scraps too if I asked. Ferrets don't care about which part they are eating, as long as their diet is nutritionally balanced in the end.

I hope this helps! Good luck on your search for ferrets!

[nux]

ah, found my thread! thanks everyone!

so...i take it there have been no studies or anything specifically for ferrets about the effects of the 'commercial' diet. i assume it is the same as it is for humans!

i love new seasons!

the other suggestion i got was to keep breeder rats, but i understand ferrets need variety.

[animalsgetrevenge]

New Seasons is my best friend! Haha. If you do end up shopping there for ferret meat, make sure to ask the people behind the counter what else they have to offer that isn't on display.

You must be located in the Portland area?
I'm in Beaverton.

[mustelidmusk]

SOme of the commercial diets are organic or partially organic. (At least they claim to be!)
Stella & CHewies, Primal, Raw advantage, Nature's Variety Organic Chicken.

So, there are organic pet options that tend to be cheaper than human organic food since they use odd parts that people don't like to eat ( like necks, etc.)

-jennifer

[Forum Administrator]

Sept 23, 2008 10:42:22 GMT -5 @nux said:

ah, found my thread! thanks everyone!

so...i take it there have been no studies or anything specifically for ferrets about the effects of the 'commercial' diet. i assume it is the same as it is for humans!.

Haha, I wish! No there has not been such a study. The question is, who would fund it? Pet food companies? Certainly not, if the results proved their food was not good, then they wouldnt make much money on it! Raw feeding enthusiast? Nopers, we just dont have the money, other wise we'd do it (I'd guess) in a heartbeat!

Its pretty safe to assume that when you feed an obligate carnivore anything but JUST animal products, you arent going to get good health. So while I cant stand here with a study and show you all the things we have found are problems with kibble. I can tell you from anectotal evidence that there is a pretty strong chance that kibble contributes to:

1. Insulinoma- Even if it doesnt cause insulinoma, it certainly doesnt help them to be bombarded by the carbs in kibble.

2. Peridontal Disease and Tooth Wear- From the carbs in kibble and the abrasive motion of the kibble. "kibble cleans teeth" is BS made up by the petfood companies. This is now being realized and that statement "kibble does NOT clean teeth" can now be found in a variety of books (not even specifically holistic books) on pet care.

3. Bladdar Stones- Corn based kibbles are particularly at fault for causing these issues.

4. Dull/Dry Coat- From poor nutriton from kibble. No matter what the bag says, its still PROCESSED food. People would look at you like you had a third head if you tried to convince someone that all they needed to eat to be healthy was powerbards (but its complete and balanced! )

5. Low hydration levels- Kibble has a moisture content LESS then that of a hard wood floor! A Polecat's natural prey? Over 50% water!

6. Less muscle mass- pure, uncooked protien will ALWAYS be more "bioavailable" then the processed, cooked junk in kibble Not to mention the protein levels in kibble (even the "premium brands") are far below the protein levels in a whole prey animal (when looking at a dry matter basis with the water removed )

That is just SOME of the problems with kibble that anecdotal evidence points to. Now I know you already know that commercial food = bad, so I'm not trying to convince you of this (obviously) but I"m just throwing what ANECDOTAL evidence there is out there.

Now as for breeding rats, by all means go ahead, but you will need to add in other foods into the diet. If you bred your own mice and rats you have 65-75% of the food requirments for the diet covered already The remaing 25-35% would just be small birds (chicks, quail, duck, etc), the occasional egg (chicken, duck, quail, etc), lizards, frogs, and the occasional bug (less then 2% of total diet).