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Post by josiesmom on Sept 9, 2008 23:07:22 GMT -5
So far the timeline has been: May started breeding mice in a couple habitrail cages and a rubbermaid tub. June, Crystal annihilated 4 pregnant females and liberated several panicked mice ( which were eventually recovered in the kitchen via use of a live trap). July, purchased plastic deep drawers to use as breeding bins. Colony prospered. August, switched from drawers to simple plastic bins with modified lids since the mice were chewing through the drawer tops. Crystal again managed to scale the 4 foot dresser, annihilate four pregnant females, my sweet breeding male and two other young males. September, now with rearranged bins and continued litters being born the original handful of mice I started with three months ago, this summer, have now grown to: 19 bins with: 32 females due to whelp (should yield over 300 pups) throughout September until October 5th! 23 females that are either newly weaned, juveniles or resting "open" and will be bred in the next few weeks. 9 females that have whelped this past week 76 pups so far! 3 breeding males 14 weaned feeder males! So it looks like I'll be able to soon supply my ferrets with home grown mouse morsels! I have 6 ferrets, 5 of which will happily eat adult mice. To offer mice as a large part of their prey model diet, means I need to supply them with at least 50 mice per week. I SHOULD be able to do this with the colony at the size it is now. And if things continue, I'll even be able to freeze some for later use! to summarize: 60 female mice will produce enough offspring to feed 5 hungry ferrets for the better part of a week each month! (at least that's what I am planning - time will tell if this pans out)! Considering that Crystal's killing sprees set me back twice, it really hasn't taken that long for the colony to get to a decent size. I've got three females per bin and am trying very hard to keep the same three females together through breeding, whelping, weaning and rebreeding. Only 4 bins have 2 females - these are my oldest females and just will not tolerate a threesome! When these expire I'll ONLY use three females per bin. I am finding that at three females per bin they all will whelp within days of each other and all will help rear the pups. There is ALWAYS at least one doe on the pup pile, so the pups seem to grow quite fast. Whereas with just two, often the pups are left alone when the does go to eat or groom or just have some alone time and the pups in twosome bins don't get as large as the pups in threesome bins as fast. All in all its been fairly successful. Cheers, Kim
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Post by Forum Administrator on Sept 10, 2008 0:07:11 GMT -5
This is really interesting Kim! Thanks for the update. I loved reading it.
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Post by Heather on Sept 10, 2008 0:08:05 GMT -5
Congratulations Kim! That's a lot of mice Curious, you mention that 3 is better than 2, would 4 work better or is that too many females for the size of containers you have? I'm guessing that you move your breeding males through your various containers, do you allow them to reside with any said box of females or do they have a residence of their own? Do you allow them to stay in with females with kits? I noticed one of the sites that you or someone else gave as a reference, one leaves the males in 24/7 the other does not. Do the males predate the kits at all? I was also wondering, do you leave cleaning out the cages just after the kits are born? If so, how long? I couldn't find any reference as to whether mice mommas don't like anyone messing with their little ones to begin with. I'm planning to raise a few mice to feed my guys (I couldn't even begin to feed on a reg basis but I"m hoping to offer them as treats and stimulation). My prey meals are predominantly rats which allows 2 or 3 ferrets to feast comfortably per rat. Thanks ciao
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Post by josiesmom on Sept 21, 2008 21:50:43 GMT -5
Yes, three is the max of females per bin; four with pups would just get too crowded. The bins are Sterlite clear plastic 22 qt.
No, I don't move the males - I WAS going to do it that way, but read how the males create "territorial" boundaries as do the females. Some females resent the males coming into their territory and will give him heck for doing so! This chastising can make the males subservient to the females and they won't breed!
Moving males to another bin means they have to mark the new territory. Leaving them in their own bins means the territory is already marked so they don't make more smelly bins! Also moving the females into the male's bins brings them into heat quickly and they submit to the males more quickly and with hardly any squabbling. I watch the breeding bins for activity, and allow them 8 to 10 days for breeding then I introduce new females. I'll swap three waiting to breed females with three bred females - so that means I don't have to create a new bin.
Since the males aren't near the pups, I don't have to worry about them killing the pups. Since all three females are bred and usually whelp within days of each other they don't cannibalize the pups. Also since I offer the mice a high protein diet, they don't cannibalize the pups.
My mice get the raw bones the ferrets don't eat for added protein and minerals and tooth health. My next endeavor is to start a cricket colony and I'm researching other worm colonies too (superworms, wax worms etc). Mice love crickets and superworms and some of my ferrets do too!
With my new job I get to bring home lots of discarded paper, which I then shred and this is being used for the mice. I've also been using a small amount of wood chips in their bins too. They like to rearrange the chips and paper shreds and these two products help keep down the odor.
I clean the bins on sort of a "rotational" basis- since the mice only use one area as a potty area I'll scoop this soiled bedding out, push other bedding into the potty area and then put fresh bedding into the bin for the mice to sort through. This has been fairly easy and keeps the smell down.
The bins are clear so I can see the soiled areas easily, surprisingly enough the mice all chose to use the rear of the bins as nesting areas and one of the front two corners as potty areas. So a quick look at the front corners tells me which bin needs freshening.
I have freshened bins with brand new litters and this has not presented any problem for the does. Since I am not messing with the actual nest area and only taking out the smelly potty area they don't fret. I talk to them as I clean the bins and since they've seen me do it before they know what is happening. Most places I've read recommend waiting at least three days to a week before messing with new litters. But I think its all in how you approach the cleaning and how you interact with the mice already. Move slow and steady, keep your voice soft and don't mess with the actual nest.
Hope this helps! Cheers, Kim
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Post by Heather on Sept 21, 2008 22:43:54 GMT -5
Well, I was finally able to find a store that actually had something more than male mice. Seems that even mouse breeding is a monopoly of large industry I picked up 4 females and 1 male this week and they're hanging out in a 10 gal fish tank for now. It seems to be working out ok and there doesn't seem to be any squabbling. I plan to pick up another set in a week or two and will continue to do this as I get supplies and see how things go. Thank you for your information and your experiences, it was greatly appreciated. The only problem that I can see is that the mice that I've managed to get were bred strictly for dinner and have never been handled...they're very skittish and bite you every time you go to handle them...I don't want to turn them into pets but I think I may have to be very careful when cleaning out their cage and when it comes to them having their little ones. I may have to give them some distance for the first couple of days. I will wait and see. Thanks again:) ciao
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Post by Heather on Sept 21, 2008 22:46:26 GMT -5
Oh...I meant to ask you...how are you finding the tubs working out. I read that you had problems with the drawers and I was interested in the bins that you're using. I'm considering using the bins as they're easier to stack up and it will also keep the cat from having his way with my mice ciao
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Post by josiesmom on Sept 28, 2008 13:29:34 GMT -5
Hi Heather,
The bins are working fairly well. Keep in mind that I invert the lids. Putting them on upside down allows room for the water bottle hanger that I drilled holes for in the lip of the bin. And still allows the bins to be stacked.
A few energetic mice in bins without wheels have managed to climb out of the food pouring hole, but because the lids are inverted, this creates a lip that the mice perceive as the end of the world- and don't venture off of! (So far anyway) So while they may manage to go on an excursion - they still don't get free.
I do label the bins with the number and color of the mice so that if one or two go visiting, I can return them to their proper bin.
Skittish mice are to be expected from ones that aren't handled much. Biting can be discouraged if you offer the mice a handhold when picking them up.
Yes, I do use their tails as handles - but once I get a hold of a tail, I don't just jerk them off their feet. I'll roll my hand so their hind feet can rest against my hand. For the ones that want to turn on my hand, I'll drag to the side of the bin and let them use the bin as support before a breif midair transfer to the male's bin.
But for the most part when I have my hands in their bins for cleaning they are either seeking a hiding spot at the other end of the bin, or some will be curious and investigate my hand. I just let them do their thing.
I did have an odd occurrence this week. A bin with three whelped females, and only ten pups that had been born Sept 3rd, had an infanticide! I found 8 killed pups! I don't know exactly why or who did it - were the two remaining juveniles the culprits and trying to eliminate competition for food or space? Or did one of the adults do it? I've marked the group and if it's the females that decide to kill again - they'll get early dinner invitations. The juveniles are already slated as food.
Cheers, Kim
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Post by Heather on Sept 28, 2008 22:44:03 GMT -5
Thanks for the update and answers it's greatly appreciated. It will be interesting to see when I might get some baby mice ciao
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horseyliz
Going Natural
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 144
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Post by horseyliz on Sept 29, 2008 18:10:09 GMT -5
how do u catch a mouse in your hose that is part of your breeding colony? i do not want t ohurt him , just capute him before he becomes dinner.
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Post by Heather on Sept 30, 2008 0:03:15 GMT -5
You could try and trap him/her in a live trap. ciao
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horseyliz
Going Natural
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 144
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Post by horseyliz on Sept 30, 2008 17:59:50 GMT -5
oh k, where do u get a small mouse trap from?
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Post by Heather on Sept 30, 2008 22:56:39 GMT -5
Hardware store, walmart, any place like that ciao
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horseyliz
Going Natural
Raw and Whole Prey Feeder
Posts: 144
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Post by horseyliz on Oct 1, 2008 19:45:20 GMT -5
will try to locate a trap and find my poor little mouse. hopefully he has found something to eatand has not beed eated himself.
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