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Post by bk1226 on Sept 3, 2008 16:26:57 GMT -5
My ferret Herbie has always been a deep sleeper. Most of the time, he wakes up and jumps out of bed before I even get downstairs to their cage. But, sometimes, he sleeps so deeply I think he's dead. I have had quite a few frightening experiences where I can pick him up and shake him (gently of course but enough that it should wake him up), poke him, talk to him, and even pry his mouth open and stick my finger in his mouth ane he won't wake up. He even seems to be breathing very shallow and I usually freak out and think he's not breathing. By now it happens enough that I know he's not dead but even knowing that he can still convince me sometimes. I'm only talking about a less than a minute time period but it still seems unhealthy and it freaks me out. Once he wakes up, he is immediately wide awake and full of energy, not at all lethargic. He did this the past 2 days in a row though and it's normally just maybe once every month or two. I've heard this can be a blood sugar issue. I'm also in the process of switching him to raw so I don't know if that could be affecting it?
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Post by suds on Sept 3, 2008 17:41:41 GMT -5
there was thread started last mont bye Kim in this very subject , I havent had it happen to me yet but Hershy is a very sound sleeper but wakes as soon as go to lift her .. as far as it being from a blood suger issue II can not comment on but I never seen it mentioned about deep sleeping but if doubt you can always have the vet check him with blood test's . here is the thread holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=talking&action=display&thread=1157
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Post by Heather on Sept 3, 2008 23:36:59 GMT -5
Ahhh the ferret's dead sleep...every ferrant's worst nightmare as it usually has them looking really silly when the charming little fuzzbutt jumps up and acts like nothing happened. And....so it did absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. I find that some of mine do this frequently others, I rarely have the priviledge to catch in the deep sleep. If you're concerned about his sleep habits (namely they've changed dramatically) then perhaps a trip to the vet for some bloodwork might be in order. ciao
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Post by bk1226 on Sept 4, 2008 21:55:17 GMT -5
He hasn't done it since those 2 days in a row and seems fine. So if this a regular thing for him (happens once a month) then it's normal? I couldn't find anything about the sleep issue on that link above.
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Post by Forum Administrator on Sept 4, 2008 22:16:03 GMT -5
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Post by suds on Sept 5, 2008 16:11:06 GMT -5
oops thanks Giuli
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Post by josiesmom on Sept 5, 2008 21:07:48 GMT -5
HOw old is Herbie? Is he in that three to four year old range when insulinoma typically begins to show up? The S-N-D moment can be terrifying. Insulinoma "seizures" or "crashes" are completely different. The seizures aren't what you'd think of as the jittery, shaking, trembling spastic tremors often expereienced when people go into seizures. the ferret typically will "zone out" they'll lay there and be completely spaced out, usually with eyes wide open often drooling profusely, sometimes looking like they are stretching as they lay on their side. Sometimes they'll be sitting still and just completely tuned out, unfocused. Often quite cool to the touch. A dab of karo syrup on the gums can bring them out of it.
But keep in mind that pretty much any time something sweet is dabbed on a sleeping ferret's gums, they'll snap to - so this alone isn't the clincher. Its more that an insulinoma crash becomes more regular and will get worse very quickly if not addressed medically. WHile an S-N-D moment passes and isn't repeated for some time (depending on the sleeping patterns of your ferret).
But an S-N-D moment the ferret is completely sound asleep and no amount of normal jostling seems to awaken them, then as noted before they wake up and look at you as if to say, "So? What do you want NOw?"
ANy time you have doubts - don't hesitate to get the ferret to a vet! IF Herbie IS in the three to four year range he is due for a blood test anyway. Regular blood tests are advisable because catching insulinoma early can offer your ferret better quality of life than ignoring the problem.
Keep us posted!
Cheers, Kim
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Post by Heather on Sept 5, 2008 22:46:31 GMT -5
I agree and disagree. A seizure that is commonly recognised as primary incidance in insulinoma quite often offers itself as a zoning out which is indeed correct. Ferrets can and do suffer grand mal seizures as well. Zena's manifested itself as rigid body with severe twitching to the point that her head was literally on backward and was thumping off the floor. Her head banging on the floor was what had allerted us to her difficulties. Ferrets do indeed suffer the same degree of seizuring as other creatures, from the mild to the full out, rigid body, eyes rolled back, full body twitching, contortioning of the limbs, pedalling of the legs and may even be accompanied by a horrible scream. The symptoms are the same in almost any mammal and are horrible and terrifying to those that have to witness them. Zena was originally being treated for insulinoma, unfortunately, she also had a brain tumour which didn't allow for us to be able to control her blood sugar and caused severe seizures. She only survived about 2 weeks after the first seizure, when I found her in the middle of the hallway, unable to get her body to unbend after another horrible seizure. That was when my vet and I decided that the most humane solution was to allow her the freedom to go to the bridge. So ferrets do indeed suffer the classic full convulsion seizures just like humans ciao
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Post by bk1226 on Sept 6, 2008 0:04:08 GMT -5
Herbie is 3. The first time he ever did this he was almost a year old. Since then it has happened maybe 10 times. The first time I "knew" he was dead and actually did try prying open his mouth getting ready to give him mouth-to-nose "CPR" and everything before he woke up! I was even crying. The next time I was freaked out too, but since then it's only happened a couple times that I was still worried, as I knew he did it occasionally. I just never knew that was normal for some ferrets and thought maybe there was something wrong with him. He has had 2 near-death random illnesses over the past 3 years (not related to the sleeping thing) and the most recent one he is just now recovering from about 2 months ago. The vet did all sorts of bloodwork and x-rays and everything at this time and there was nothing wrong with him. They specifically checked his blood sugar to check for insulinoma and rechecked it again a couple weeks later just to be sure and it was fine. So I guess if this is always something that's been an issue then it's nothing to be worried about? I never knew other ferrets did that so I am very relieved to know that. My vet had said it wasn't anything to be worried about but didn't mention it happened with other ferrets and I got the impression she didn't really believe that he was really that dead-looking and thought I was exaggerating or something. He had fluid pouring out of his ears (dripping down his head) once when he was super sick and she said "ferrets get some waxy build up in their ears occasionally" when I called her. I have a new vet now. When he does this "SND" thing, I can do almost anything to him and he doesn't wake up and his breathing is very shallow and all that but it's only when he's been sleeping in his cage and then he always wakes up, shakes his head, and looks at me with the "why are you staring at me like that mom?" look before squirming out of my hands and bouncing away.
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