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Post by bk1226 on Aug 17, 2008 14:30:14 GMT -5
I'm new here & I just posted a thread about switching to raw. Until then my ferrets are on kibble.
My fur baby Herbie (3 yo male) recently got really sick & almost died. The vets did numerous tests and tried tons of medication and the final "guess" was IBD and that he had a stomach ulcer. They did bloodwork, x-rays, & glucose tests. They tried 2 antibiotics, prednisone, omiprazole, carafate twice, sub q fluids, different foods, force feeding, etc. He's been fine for about a month now. The pred definitely helped and he just finished weaning off of it. He was also still on omiprazole, & carafate. I tried reducing those and have just weaned him off, which the vet said wasn't a good idea but only because they never figured out what was wrong with him & he happened to be on those when he got better. I reduced everything slowly and saw no change so I took him off of those. He acts just as good as he used to before he got sick now and he's back to his normal weight. His poop is still a little more runny than it used to be, although it seems better w/o all the meds. He still has that seedy looking stuff, which I believe is because he's not fully digesting his food. My guess would be all the trauma & meds have his system all screwed up. This is also the 2nd time he's had the same symptoms & almost died (last time was over a year ago and then completely fine until this thing) but last time they just gave him carafate & an antibiotic and he was fine. I would just like some ideas on traditional meds vs. natural supplements and if anyone has any ideas for supplements that would be good for him that would be great. His sister shares a cage with him and she's never been sick.
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Post by suds on Aug 17, 2008 20:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 17, 2008 22:30:19 GMT -5
What kind of symptoms did Herbie have? Just bird seedy poop? Anything else? Apple has IBD and is allergic to chicken. If you think Herbie is IBD then take all chicken out of his diet. Slowly of course. Apple used to be eating Evo Ferret and I have since taken him completely off of that. So far, so good, its only been 1 month. I am in the process of bringing more raw/freeze-dried/dehydrated meats to his diet. Again, no chicken whatsoever. Its extremely hard to find ANY kibble without chicken in it, and even harder to find any without grains, which might also be contributing. You can check out my thread about Apple's diet holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=newbie&action=display&thread=427 Where I am trying to track all his new foods that I will be using instead of the kibbles. Also, if he does have IBD chances are his poops will never be normal. Every week Apple has a weird poop or 2. There's no getting away from it because his intestines are probably always going to be a little irritated. However, I try to supplement with a Prozyme so that he can more easily digest the meats. Or Papaya Extract will also help. My mentor, Mustelidmusk has helped a lot when it comes to how to feed my IBD ferret. You could PM her and she'll give you some good info. Also, theres a question of whether adding Biotin to a ferret's diet might help with seedy poop. This is on another forum. What does anyone think about that idea? |
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Post by bk1226 on Aug 17, 2008 23:11:43 GMT -5
When he was actually sick, he slowly appeared to be eating a little less and maybe looked a little thinner, then he just randomly stopped eating altogether, wouldn't drink water, was losing a lot of weight, lethargic, & diarrhea. He went to the vet & got meds and was maintaining on syringe feeding then he started spitting that out too and I thought he was going to die. When he was the sickest, he suddenly felt like he was filled up with liquid (it was really gross, he felt like a water balloon when I shook him.) They had given him sub q fluids but it was way different than what it normally feels like after he's gotten fluids. I was sure he would die and I took pictures of him and everything  But then when they put him on pred, within a couple days he was eating a little bit on his own. I supplemented with syringe feeding for maybe 2 weeks and he is now completely back to normal like nothing ever happened. Weird. This happened a year ago too but not as severe. Other than that he's been fine. I just never really found out what made him sick or what cured it so I'm scared it will happen again. |
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 18, 2008 7:05:32 GMT -5
I can see why you would be scared! That is really freaky! I don't know why he would be "full of liquid" like you described.
Apple was lethargic, wasn't eating but he was drinking, wasn't playing, was pooping liquid almost constantly, was sleeping always and it was always in front of the A/C vent so I thought he was hot even though in my small apartment with the A/C set to 75, it was cold in there. Meds made him better but his poops will never be normal.
So now I'm not sure if I think your guy has IBD, there are several forms of it, maybe he just has a rare one. But isn't Pred for cancers? Stomach cancer perhaps?
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Post by bk1226 on Aug 18, 2008 18:01:57 GMT -5
Prednisone can be used for different reasons. It is an immunosuppresant and often used for cancer or auto-immune diseases but also has other uses. The vet did not think it was cancer due to all bloodwork being completely normal. Yeah, the whole thing definitely freaked me out. I am pretty sure the main reason they gave Herbie pred was because one of the side effects of pred is that it stimulates the appetite. It also decreases swelling and pain and he appeared to be in pain. The vet suggested it may be IBD but wasn't sure, however this is the 2nd time he's had this but in between he's been absolutely fine. I don't think IBD comes and goes by itself without an underlying cause.
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 18, 2008 19:00:31 GMT -5
Apple's IBD attacks come from a few causes, see if any of these fit your situation.
Change of diet. Switched Apple directly to raw chicken and his poops were bright orange and never cleared. He didn't get as sick this first time, but was eating mostly chicken for a few weeks, and his poops were never close to being normal or consistent.
Second time was bringing a new ferret in the house. He got really stressed and this is when the major weird runny poops started, he stopped eating, he stopped playing, all he did was sleep. And then he threw up, 3 times in one day.
Stress is probably the biggest factor and next up is a food allergy, most notably chicken. Try pulling all chicken from his diet. If your kibble contains chicken, find something else. Evo red meat bites (small) are working perfect for me. Theres always the other raw choices, something commercial like Nature's Variety raw frozen diets are great and unless its chicken, it doesn't contain chicken.
Try to keep his life stress free and not bring anything really new into his life suddenly. Or if you are moving, adopt the changes slowly with him. Or be ready for an episode with meat baby food and KMR on hand. Be ready with a tummy coater if he throws up. Keep things simple.
If you're changing his diet, do it slowly. It can take him longer to adjust to new foods. Anxiety over throwing up will most likely be the culprit and keep him from eating. Good luck! Hopefully someone else might have more help for what he has. These are just my experiences!
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Post by bk1226 on Aug 18, 2008 22:10:58 GMT -5
Thank you for your help. Just to answer your questions, he has always been on the same food since I've had him. I'm recently switching to some higher quality food but when he had gotten sick nothing had changed. The first time I was on vacation and the person feeding him was scared of him so they just threw food in every day but didn't interact with him, so I'm pretty sure stress was a big factor in that one. But nothing different the second time. And yes, I learned my lesson in thinking they'd be ok with someone who didn't like ferrets if it was just for a week.  |
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Post by Heather on Aug 19, 2008 0:20:58 GMT -5
I knew I would find you again IBD is quite often triggered by stress. It would be stress that you or I might not even notice. It can be physical or mental. Something as easy as a change in your schedule. Which may not seem to have anything to do directly with your little fellow. There is no real diagnosis for IBD except to do a biopsy. Most vets guess and treat. My little Mischief was treated naturally. He lived to be about 9 yrs old. My Aremis is being treated with pred. He is about 8, we've been treating this for about 9 months now. There is no cure, which I'm sure you are aware of. You can only treat the symptoms as they appear and hopefully catch an attack before it becomes severe. Which is better? I haven't come to a defined conclusion yet. We've been unable to wean Aremis off the pred. As soon as we get to the low end of the pred...the symptoms come back. The one thing the vet does say about this is that both boys have lived reasonably comfortable vs kibble fed ferrets that she has treated for the same disease. I mentioned this in a previous post to you in another section. Don't necessarily treat chicken like a non food. Little Mischief stomached chicken fine, as does Aremis. What you have to be careful of is the amount of hard fat that you introduce to the diet. What I did feed Mischief during an attack was rabbit. He loved it and it seemed to agree with his system. What you do have to realize if you do choose to feed rabbit is that there isn't enough taurine in the meat for a ferret to eat safely for a long term diet. It will do as long as you supplement taurine (hearts will do) with it. I do agree that an introduction of a new ferret can cause an attack as can the loss of one. Even changing the cage around can cause an attack. What started Little Mischief was being turned into an overcroweded rescue situation. He suffered shelter shock and things went really bad for him. By the time I got him, I almost lost him. The shelter hadn't even been aware that he was sick. We brought him around and things were going well until his new little furfriend passed on from a botched adrenal surgery. He once again stopped eating and curled up refusing food and water. Strangely enough it was taking him out and letting him pick out a new kit that turned this attack around. He remained in very good health for about a year. He then had another attack that required him to once again be sub-q'd. This happened 2 more times in the 21/2 yrs that he lived with me. He eventually passed on from lymphomas. The one thing to remember is don't blame yourself for his attacks, you may not even be a factor. The other is you will have to deal with it again if it's IBD, it's just part of living with a ferret. I do honestly believe that they have fewer attacks, and recover quicker on raw. JMO of course. Good luck ciao |
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 19, 2008 9:46:01 GMT -5
Heather, you mentioned not including so much raw fat. Don't know what you mean. I feed NV raw meals and I don't add extra fats to that. I don't know how his meals are so fatty, but I do constantly get the seedy poops. I took the chicken out mostly because that seemed to spring on the first attack in the first place. And since its just high stress. How do I alter his food more than what I am already doing?
I'm switching his diet, no kibbles to mostly the NV, raw, and dehydrated meats. What else can I do?
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