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Post by pear2apple on Aug 5, 2008 22:31:21 GMT -5
OK, so Apple has been doing well since his big sickness 2 weeks ago. He is done with his meds, and he's eating, drinking, playing, pooping. Well his poops have never fully gotten better. Like they are almost always a little seedy but never runny or loose or liquid. Nice brown/tan color. Kiwi's poops are always small but frequent. I can usually find her easily because she has stopped using the litter box in the bathroom, and will go right next to it. They are small, dark brown, they don't smell at all. She is eating partial new foods lately though, so perhaps? Not really sure though. During one full day, there is a decent amount of poop in their litter box. Which btw, they only poop in ONE spot. Same corner every time. So its kinda hard to tell what is underneath there, and lately there have been flies (its so embarrassing to tell you guys that). I'm going to start emptying it twice a day instead of just once, with Apple it only needed done once. But still, its pretty gross sometimes. So, maybe this is Kiwi's or maybe this is Apple's. I don't know. Either way, what the heck is that stuff??? I feed Red Meat bites, mainly to Kiwi, and Apple always gets his Nature's Variety lamb and rabbit mix with some KMR and a little tiny bit of salmon cat food (yes its real salmon) mixed in. Now Kiwi I have been trying to get to try the raw, its taking awhile, but every day she eats a bit more. She is also getting too much Ferrevite because I need her to sit still while I clean her cut. So, ummm? Pumpkin in order for this? Is that like a real life seed? Or something else entirely? Does it look like something one of them ate? I don't know what that could be.
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Post by josiesmom on Aug 6, 2008 0:44:28 GMT -5
The seediness is related to not digesting fats properly. This may mean the ferrets aren't producing enough bile.
It also might just mean they don't have their gut bacteria reestablished yet.
The translucent greenish stuff actually looks like it is a tissue of some sort- I want to say lettuce - any chance of lettuce being obtained by them? It could also be an intestinal lining shedding. Have you seen this with every deposit? Intestinal linings do shed periodically, usually we don't see them because they shed in pieces, not still intact larger sheets. But if your ferrets have recently been sick and the gut bacteria have been upset or there has been a large die off of the gut bacteria, the toxins from this die off can cause the basal cell membrane ( a single cell thick layer of membrane lining the entire gut) to shed. The shedding membrane would explain why it is being seen at the end of the deposit and not the beginning- as the excretia moves through the tract it pulls the shed membrane with it.
What is KMR?
The red you are seeing could be from the red bites being fed, but since I've never fed that, I don't know for certain. there does seem to be a LOT of mucous in the deposits - which again may suggest improper gut bacteria levels.
The light colored stuff could easily be poorly digested salmon.
What I would do is to gather all their food items being fed and soak them in about a tablespoonful of water. Then "dissect the food items. You may find some amazing things in your predigested dissection.
Gather a poop, add some water and dissect this too.
What this will show you is what is actually getting digested and what isn't because what comes out and is still recognizable obviously hasn't been digested.
Pumpkin at this point would NOT be advisable because it would again strip the gut bacteria. The pumpkin is Libby's mashed pumpkin with NO spices! NOT pumpkin seeds!
I would offer the ferrets some licks of plain yogurt, maybe about a 1/4 teaspoon every day for a week to see if that helps reestablish some gut bacteria. Or if you can get your hands on some carnivore specific probiotics to add to their food that might help too. Any meds he got would have seriously upset his gut bacteria and they'll be out of whack for a while.
The extra ferretvite will offer extra sugar into her system, this too will have an effect on her gut flora.
Hope this helps, Kim
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Post by weloveourweasels on Aug 6, 2008 2:20:28 GMT -5
Good question about the random green because with mine the whole poop is never green either just randomly green. The dark red stuff looks exactly like ferrevite to me.
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 6, 2008 6:53:38 GMT -5
The dark red stuff looks exactly like ferrevite to me. I think you're right. She's been getting it extra since she's so squirmy. Up close it looks more of a dark reddish brown color, exactly like Ferrevite.
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 6, 2008 7:01:30 GMT -5
The translucent greenish stuff actually looks like it is a tissue of some sort- I want to say lettuce - any chance of lettuce being obtained by them? It could also be an intestinal lining shedding. Have you seen this with every deposit? Intestinal linings do shed periodically, usually we don't see them because they shed in pieces, not still intact larger sheets. But if your ferrets have recently been sick and the gut bacteria have been upset or there has been a large die off of the gut bacteria, the toxins from this die off can cause the basal cell membrane ( a single cell thick layer of membrane lining the entire gut) to shed. The shedding membrane would explain why it is being seen at the end of the deposit and not the beginning- as the excretia moves through the tract it pulls the shed membrane with it. What is KMR? I don't have any lettuce in the house, so no to that. Perhaps it is because he is not reestablished with his good bacteria yet? I will get some plain yogurt for them both. I'm not sure what kind of carnivore probiotics you might be referring to. KMR=kitten replacer milk, I've been trying to give some to Kiwi because she is so thin, 1lb 6oz or so. She's just a little thing, I can feel her rib cage and all her bones actually. Apple has recently been sick, so I am guessing this is his poop. And perhaps the yogurt will help things. there does seem to be a LOT of mucous in the deposits - which again may suggest improper gut bacteria levels. What I would do is to gather all their food items being fed and soak them in about a tablespoonful of water. Then "dissect the food items. You may find some amazing things in your predigested dissection. Gather a poop, add some water and dissect this too. Pumpkin at this point would NOT be advisable because it would again strip the gut bacteria. The pumpkin is Libby's mashed pumpkin with NO spices! NOT pumpkin seeds! I'll try dissecting the food, good idea with the NV for sure. Thats the only green one I have found. Maybe this is just a fluke. I was thinking pumpkin because I assumed those pods looked like something was stuck in there. But your idea sounds more possible. I only use the mashed pumpkin, without spices, not the seeds! Thanks for your help Kim!
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 6, 2008 9:09:06 GMT -5
Ferrets with IBD will often have poops that are a little "off". Unfortunately, IBD can damage the intestine over time, and nutrient absorption can decline over time. Also, with IBD, poop quality may never be ideal. (With raw diet, poop quality will never be ideal!) The greenish is the bile poop - it tends to be at the end of the stool because it's less digested. The green pod may ingested fur, which compacts in the gut, so it sometimes looks like a flat object. The light stuff is probably cat food, the red is not all that red, and there tend to be 2 types of red in poops - bright/frank blood (fresh), which comes from the intestine, and dark, black tarry stool, which comes from the stomach (it's digested blood in high concentration) Please note that meats that contain more blood can produce a dark tarry tool as well. You ferrts poop's look like enither of these. Also, the combination of dry/kibble and raw will result in a stool that has a mixed consistency. Probiotics may help, especially if fed between meals. Considering where you're at in the switch, and considering that Apple has IBD and has gone thrugh a few rounds of metronidazole, I don't think these poops are all that terrible. If they remain like this all the time, you may want to work on sme dietary experientaton. But as log a Apple is not losing weight, remainsacibve and has a healthy coat, I wouldn't worry about a couple of wierd stools here and there. And one more thing that maes the potty box seem more gross (at least to me) is that the litte girls pee on their poops, which I wasn't used to when I got my first girls, so the wetter poops just seem a lttle wetter I think you'll want to get Apple away from all kibble, if possible.. The cabs can also be a source of allergy, plus the don't help with absorption of nutrients. Sometimes a small amount of fiber, such s a bit of pumpkn can produce a more consistent tool, but, I'd skip it for now and just keep an eye on how things are "going" (OK, bad pun!! Ijust couldn't resist!) -jennifer
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 6, 2008 9:32:21 GMT -5
Thank you. I knew I could count on you to give a response! I think you're right, it must be his IBD and I assume it will always be this way. Apple rarely eats the Red Meat bites unless he doesn't have the raw.
Like today, my A/C went out last night, so I took them over to a friend's apartment across the street and they are eating the kibble today. Otherwise, Apple almost always eats only the NV, with a little kibble on the side. Its Kiwi who is playing it tough!
That said, I'm going to go update Apple's thread soon, and send you a PM.
Thanks guys! I thought that green looked so weird!!
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 6, 2008 16:20:36 GMT -5
I know what the pods are! And I have no idea how Apple got ahold of this!
So I feed salmon oil from gel capsules, I just happened to be playing with Kiwi on the floor when I heard this chewing coming from Apple in his feeding den. Odd, there shouldn't be ANY food in there! I peak in and there's Apple munching away with this yellow thingy next to him. I pick it up and its 3/4 of a gel capsule! The salmon oil is gone because I mix it with their NV. He'd been chewing on it, about 1/4 of it was gone. And now pooped out I guess! But those pieces looked just like the texture of the capsules!
Weird part is, how did he get to my garbage in the kitchen where I throw these capsules away at? He can't jump over my divider into my kitchen, so I have no idea where he got it from. But it still smelled of salmon so he must have been chewing on it to get to that flavor since he likes it! And I put some on their NV yesterday morning! I'm just happy I found it and he only ate a little! Ohhhh Apple!
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Post by josiesmom on Aug 6, 2008 19:25:50 GMT -5
You only THINK he cannot get over the divider! Didn't you know ferrets are skilled at telepathic kinetics? The capsules are likely cellulose - which would explain that "lettuce" appearance.
Glad you figured that out!
Now you'll have to add some height to your divider!
CHeers, Kim
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