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Post by faunafreak on Apr 26, 2009 15:36:44 GMT -5
I'm SO sorry that I've been offline for over 3 days - I'm still not used to the new work schedule, and I've had to go from work to rehearsal for 3 of the last 4 nights. I was going to get on last night, but passed out after taking a bath. Anyway, in addition to the turkey that I gave Skit when I was making the ferrets' soup, I also let her try some rabbit, quail (bone-in - and she ate it ALL) goat, lamb - essentially a small cut of everything I was putting into the ferret soup except the pork. I wasn't comfortable giving her raw pork until I remembered (earlier this afternoon) that the commercial ground contains pork, so I guess it isn't a problem. She ate everything I offered. Also, when everything was cooked and I started blending (today, unfortunately - I really have been exhausted), I went ahead and gave the ferts soup from the first round (my blender's too small to get everything at once). I didn't put any raw in, because I wanted to see if they'd be interested. And they were - they didn't even need more than a lick of my finger before they dived in (except Llullu, but I think that's because they haven't been getting as much attention now that I'm working full time, and she gets depressed if someone doesn't spend enough time with her. She loved it as long as I was giving it to her personally ). So I guess they didn't care for the makeshift batch of soup I made. I'm going to have to put a cube of it in with this batch whenever they get their soup so I can get rid of the stuff. Hopefully, now that I've got the *right* soup, I can start putting the raw in bit by bit until they're getting chunks (fingers crossed). I'm out of the canned salmon dog food, so I'm about to open up the can of turkey (I got one can each of salmon, turkey, and beef). If the cats like it as much as the salmon, what do you think of putting tiny chunks of meat in the middle of a canned food ball? P.S. - In the time it's taken to write this note, the ferrets have all but finished off their soup - and there was at least 2x as much as they'd been getting of the last batch. They definitely liked it!
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Post by Heather on Apr 26, 2009 23:15:06 GMT -5
Great...sounds like your crew has figured out what they like, and you've found the right combination. Ok, lets work with it and see how it goes. Give it a try in can't hurt....you go with what works...that's always been the way. Oh, on a secondary note...if I don't answer you right away...I'm not ignoring you ....I have pneumonia and its knocking the stuffing out of me. Talk at you later ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 27, 2009 22:55:16 GMT -5
Well, although everyone else dug in, Oatmeal did NOT want the soup today - maybe he'd just eaten or something. I don't want to put pumpkin in every day, but he definitely likes that *sigh* Skit seems to prefer smaller (but not tiny, fortunately) chunks - I gave her some pieces, and one was a large chunk with a good-sized bone. She'd gnaw on it, then take it out of the bowl and leave it. She also didn't seem to like eating too many pieces at one sitting - which was taken care of when I let the ferrets out for their nightly house romp. It didn't take Keller long to find the bowl of meat and polish it off (though I am going to have to do an inspection before I go to bed to make sure he didn't stash anything - the first thing he did was pull all the remaining pieces out of the bowl ) I tried rolling a tiny chunk of meat in Anna and Morphia's canned turkey (which they really liked) - Morphia ate hers, but when I checked Anna, she'd eaten most of the canned without eating the chunk . It was gone later, but any one of the 3 cats could have eaten it. At least Morphia ate hers, though (I know she did because she was in my room earlier, and I took her bowl in there. The meat was gone when I came back for it). So, overall, progress - except with b*tthead Oatmeal
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Post by Heather on Apr 28, 2009 1:01:44 GMT -5
There's always one Oatmeal you little sh** your momma's trying to make a good life for you Let him have his pumpkin, it won't hurt him. He's not eating prey, so he could use the extra fiber anyway. Great news about Morphia. No vomiting? They will get less picky about the size of the chunks once they become more comfortable eating their foods. All in all not a bad day. Good work. Keep it up and I will check in on you tomorrow ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 29, 2009 1:17:07 GMT -5
Put in a much smaller amount of pumpkin than I normally do (1/2 tsp instead of 2), and everyone ate some. I had to get Oatmeal started, but at least he ate it. Anna ate her meat chunk with the canned turkey I gave her, and Skit ate the chunks of meat that she got (with Keller's help). Didn't have any more ground meat thawed out, so I put tiny chunks of turkey into the soup. I think Keller ate them, but not the others . Starting to get a few pudding poos again.
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 29, 2009 19:38:59 GMT -5
I put 4 bits of meat in the soup earlier today - only 2 are left (though I suspect Keller). Unfortunately, Keller may not be eating quite as much meat as I thought - I found 3 piles of meat behind my couch about 20 minutes ago The chunks were rather large, though, so maybe Skye didn't cut them up before he gave them to Skit, and then Keller stashed them. Also, I picked up 4 live mice from a pet store while I was out, and while it took a second for the ferrets to realize what was going on (I woke them up ), they all got really excited. Oatmeal killed most of them, I think - he'd kill one, then go take someone else's away from them and kill it, then . . . . I'm going to have to find a bigger bin, though - Ushba grabbed his kill (whether he actually got to kill it or not remains a mystery), climbed out of the tub, and ran off. Skit just found it a few minutes ago, so that saves me a search. I think Oatmeal actually ate one! He was gnawing on it, but he kept hacking like he had a hairball or something. Then he climbed out of the tub (definitely need a bigger container) and dragged his mouse under the couch, where I could hear him chewing - and coughing. The cough worries me. Keller looked like he was going to eat one, but I'm not sure he did - I saw him a few minutes after he got out of the tub, and he was gagging. Oh, Keller just ran in with a dead mouse and is eating on it (much to Skit's consternation - I guess she wants one that isn't already gnawed), and the one Skit was playing with earlier is still out here. So I guess Oatmeal didn't eat it after all. At least he tried though, right? Hmm, Keller wandered away from the mouse - and just grabbed the one Skit was playing with earlier. But you said it takes them a bit of time to finish off a whole mouse, right? They weren't very big - not even hopper size, more like dwarf mice or something. I've already taken the other 2 mice and put them in the freezer (I don't think Skye will be thrilled to come home and find eviscerated mice in the tub )
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Post by Heather on Apr 30, 2009 0:33:25 GMT -5
Sounds to me like you had a very successful hunt . Good work. It takes them awhile to get the hang of eating prey too. One of the problems...what the coughing may be is that they don't quite clear the piece that they're chewing, and they swallow. Unfortunately, the piece of meat that they're chewing is still attached to the carcass, they gag, pull back removing the piece from their throat and go at it again. They soon learn that the meat has to be cleared so they can swallow it. I like that Oatmeal was indeed in the frey and chewing and possibly eating. That's a huge step for him, even if he didn't truly eat any large amount . I had the guys do a kill today, I found Attila eating a mouse a good half hour later and Odin enjoying a hind quarter that had been stashed in the litter box. Now, Lady "B" and Loki usually kill and eat their first mouse right there but it takes Lady "B" a good 10 min or longer to polish it off, depending if she's already eaten this morning. Loki the brat, will eat the heads and leave me the carcass and go after the next mouse. He likes heads. My son was making some complaint this afternoon about the mice stashed beside the pizza pops Good work, a successful experiment on your part. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 30, 2009 22:19:15 GMT -5
Thanks! I just pulled the mice remnants from the cage - one (I think) spine with some trimmings and the hind end of another. I read your post earlier, but forgot that you mentioned a ferret going back for a mouse bit in the litter box (which, incidentally, is where I found the mouse hiney tonight), and pulled both bits out and tossed them. No one gave me any problems with soup tonight - Oatmeal didn't even need me to start him up! Llullu was more interested in playing and exploring (they're not getting as much house time now that I'm working - I hope this isn't affecting them too adversely), but after I brought her back to the bowl, she settled to eating. They only left a bit of porridge (slightly less than a tablespoon), so after letting them play some more, I scooped the rest of the soup onto a spoon and grabbed each ferret (except Keller - I think he'll be fine as soon as I can get the others off of kibble) for a one-on-one snack. Llullu and Ushba were pretty good - in fact, Ushba got a bit of raw turkey in his mouth and chewed on it a bit (but didn't want the rest of it - oh well). Oatmeal wasn't really interested in eating the porridge - he kept trying to take the spoon away from me - so I watered it down a little bit. Oatmeal ate a little after that, and I was able to get Ushba and Llullu to each take a tiny bit more, but ultimately ended up leaving a little bit of porridge (with a sliver of raw turkey) in the cage with them. I also cut up 9 small pieces of turkey and left them on a plate in the cage for the night. We'll see how many pieces are left in the morning.
I took the meat that Keller stashed and seared it to try and get some of the germs off of it, then gave it to Skit today. She ate some of it - and of course, Keller ate the 2 pieces that were left when he came across them tonight. Unfortunately, they were cut for SKIT, not Keller, so he had a bit of difficulty with the first piece. I kept an eye on him, since he looked like he was a breath away from choking on the meat. But he didn't choke, and he didn't put it down. Skye was shocked when he realized that Keller had actually managed to eat the entire chunk of meat without having to pull it out of his mouth or be rescued. Then he went back for the other piece! Like I said, if I can get the others to switch, I don't really have any worries about Keller
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Post by Heather on May 1, 2009 12:30:58 GMT -5
I think you're right about Keller, the rest of the business just needs to catch up with him That's great....your guys are moving along. Fantastic about Oatmeal, sounds like he's got the idea. Lets have an update as to what you're putting in to your soupy or porridge and we'll see where we take this next step. It sounds like your little troupe is ready to move again. I will check in on you tonight. If I don't respond right away, I sometimes get hung up because I have satelite and if it's raining it won't pick up and I can't get hold of anyone. I will be in touch as soon as it stops raining . ciao
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Post by faunafreak on May 3, 2009 22:18:42 GMT -5
well, in addition to the pumpkin, I'm adding a few slivers of raw meat to the soup after I heat it up. Ushba wants to run off and stash whenever he gets a mouthful of meat, so I have to hold him until he drops or chews the meat (he drops it half the time. I haven't seen Oatmeal eating any of the meat, and Llullu isn't sure about it - she'll chew on it, them spit it out and go back to the soup. So I'm not sure whether or not they're ready for me to give them larger chunks. The 2 nights that I put meat in the cage, the meat was gone after 24 hours, and the plate had been pushed onto a lower level of the cage. Anna - who I hoped was eating her meat chunks wrapped in canned Wellness food - is eating the canned turkey and leaving/spitting out the chunk. Morphia is eating all of hers, so I think I'm about to graduate her to a bit larger piece than what she's getting. Skit whines for whatever she can get, and Keller eats what he finds available. And it's all cool with the satellite - I feel bad that I haven't been making a nightly report like I was when I first started
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Post by Heather on May 3, 2009 23:49:16 GMT -5
Will Oatmeal eat any of the meat chunks if you pop one in his mouth? Even if it's just a sliver. Your soupy is made up of ground raw meat or cooked meats? I know you were using haretoday if I remember correctly...right? What meat are the guys eating this week? Morphia's moving right along. What a good kitty . Try her on slightly larger chunks or use less of the canned and see how that goes. No tummy upsets? Make Anna's chunks smaller, sounds like she's being finicky.... Take it back a step for her. I will check in with you tomorrow and see how things are doing. Don't worry about not checking in quite as often as you were. We're still covering the bases and it may take a little longer but we will get there . ciao
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Post by faunafreak on May 4, 2009 13:39:33 GMT -5
Soup ingredients - turkey, rabbit, quail, goat, lamb, pork. I cut most of the meat from the bone (froze the bones w/meat for feeding), cook the meat in a crock-pot, then blend everything together - meat and water. I serve about 2 spoonfuls of meat mixed with a little tap water and heated for about 30 sec in the microwave. Then I add a little pumpkin and slivers of whatever raw meat I have thawed. I had some cubes of the last batch of soup (the one made with hare-today which they really didn't care for) that I added to this batch so they wouldn't be wasted. I'll see if Oatmeal will eat a sliver when I give them their soup tonight, as well as readjusted both Morphia's and Anna's ratios of canned-to-raw and see what happens
I'm out of the hare-today, so I'm using the RMB from my soup ingredients. Last week was turkey and either lamb or goat (I didn't mark it - will remember for next time) . I've got quail and what I think is rabbit thawing now. Unfortunately, I don't have any organ meats right now. Most of what's sold tends to be chicken or beef - and the beef is generally just heart and liver (maybe kidney, too). Nobody wants anything to do with the chicken gizzards I bought a few weeks ago, and since I didn't get any duck this time, no organs from that, either.
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Post by Heather on May 5, 2009 1:01:40 GMT -5
Are your guys eating any raw bone? If they don't like haretoday at this point there doesn't appear to be a reason why you should spend that kind of money to waste the food. You may, especially once they start eating raw meat without soupy, yet be able to make use of the haretoday company to get your guys variety....though you have a good mix of meats there. You don't have to use the same organ meats as the meat that you're feeding. It's very difficult to match beef to beef liver and heart and chicken to the same (these are easier) but once you start feeding pork, quail, rabbit sometimes those are harder to come by. Looks like everyone is doing well, start moving forward with adding more raw meat to their soupy and seeing if they will eat that. Keep the sizes about the same, and see if you can entice Oatmeal to eat this. Good luck. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on May 5, 2009 22:37:31 GMT -5
Oatmeal wasn't interested in eating the piece of meat I fished out of the soup for him; he kept trying to get around it and back to the soup. Skit's not been eating the RMB and they've been going to waste (the ones Keller doesn't eat), so I tried giving her quail today to see if it was the size of the bones that was the problem. She started gnawing on the first piece I gave her, then gave up on it. Tonight I used a butcher knife to cut up and crush some of the bones - she seems much more interested in eating that. I also put some of the cut-up bone-in meat in the ferret soup (still pretty small pieces, though). Morphia ate her (larger) bit of meat in the canned food, but when I came home from rehearsal tonight I found what appeared to be a small amount of vomit in front of the bathroom. Tomorrow I'll give it to her when I have at least an hour to stick around and keep an eye on her. Same with Anna, since I saw her eating the canned food I gave her, but didn't check whether or not she left the smaller piece of meat. As I'm typing, Keller has discovered the RMB I'd cut up for Skit and is eating on them. Poor Skit - he even took the one she was playing with.
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Post by Heather on May 6, 2009 0:16:24 GMT -5
Maybe taking a hammer to Skit's rmb's might be an idea for him. It appears that he's overwhelmed by the bones. Unfortunately, getting them to eat bone is one of the most difficult and essential parts of raw feeding . It's one of the reasons that I advocate people getting a commercial ground or buying a meat grinder that will grind bones so that even if they can't get their guys to eat whole bones, that they will be eating them ground. You may still get it to happen, it just takes a little longer. You may have to back step a little for Morphia....she may be willing but her tummy hasn't quite caught up to her level of eating yet. It may very well happen, it's just that she's not used to digesting that much all at once. Samurai never did graduate to chunked meats, but he eats all different types of ground and usually keeps it down. You're never going to stop the vomiting completely but you will be able to make it a rare occurance and all cats vomit sometimes. Sounds like Keller is enjoying your attempts at getting your guys to eat meat It seems that he's having fun stealing everyone else's meals . Oatmeal is just going to be persistence, he has his ideas on what he's supposed to be eating and he's got big plans for himself...your ideas aren't included . Perhaps, getting him to eat one piece of meat...just a sliver and then letting him get to his soupy....next time getting him to eat just one and letting him get away with that one piece for a bit. You're doing really well with these guys, they're not an easy switch and you're trying to do cats too. I will check in with you tomorrow and see how things are going and if you were able to convince Oatmeal that meat is really something to eat. You got him to eventually accept the soupy, now it's just getting him to eat the meat. It's the same with Skit. It will come ciao
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