|
Post by Heather on Nov 5, 2009 1:23:49 GMT -5
What if you tried to do a total raw. Make it as a separate meal altogether. You've got them eating the soupy with the raw pieces. What if you just made up a raw soupy. Just the ferts for now. Let's keep feeding the meaty chunks in with canned to the kitties. The thing is if you're going to feed raw, it's got to move on. Part of our problem is we're stuck between a rock and a hard place and your furbabies (ferrets anyway) are starting to have digestive issues because of it. We need to convince them that they're going to eat this food. I've copied this recipe across. I've used it to switch over 30 of my own ferts. It's labour intensive (the switch, not the recipe) to begin with but once it's done...you're switched. If you want you can go totally commercial and your little ones eat ground raw food. At that point you can then proceed to add whole meats at your leisure. Read it over, let me know if this is the direction you want to go.
You can try to get them to eat a raw soup immediately. You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:
8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat) 1 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder) 1 raw chicken heart 1/2 raw chicken liver Water (use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker)
Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest. If they absolutely refuse to try the soupy, suck some of it up into the syringe. ciao
|
|
|
Post by faunafreak on Nov 11, 2009 13:49:00 GMT -5
Ok, still working with the raw soupie, but I also have an update on Morphia. in the last week or so, she's been vomiting much more than usual. I asked Skye if he'd been feeding Skit raw on a regular basis (since I know that Morphia likes to steal from Skit's bowl), but he said no (which is an entirely different problem altogether). Most of what I've cleaned up appears to be strictly kibble, but yesterday she puked about 20 minutes after she'd stolen some of Skit's chicken. It definitely didn't look like kibble. I'm seriously considering taking her in to the vet if this keeps up. The problem is, if she's reacting to the chicken in the kibble now, what do I do then. Most of the canned cat food I come across has chicken in it, or fish. Even the turkey is usually mixed with chicken. The rabbit and duck I get is dog food, and I don't know if that will cause a deficiency for her. I've run out of raw non-chicken meats, so I'm going to go get some of that and see if she's as interested in it as she is the chicken (fingers crossed), and if so, whether she can keep it down better (fingers AND toes crossed).
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Nov 12, 2009 2:39:57 GMT -5
If Morphia's starting to vomit a lot again, you may want to take her in for a blood draw and work up just to make sure that she hasn't got another health issue boiling up One of the reasons why I switched to raw was so that I could actually feed the protein source of "my" choice and not some mixture of crap that they had decided to put together. This allows them to use any or all of those proteins, it also allows them to change their recipe without having to get it cleared by the regulatory boards That's why sometimes your kitty can eat a certain food and then can't at another time The problem is that she may be reacting to how they're processing the chicken in the kibbles, not the chicken itself. I know a lot of furkids (cats, dogs and ferrets) who cannot eat a certain protein source as kibble but can eat the real deal without any problems. Dog food is too low a protein source for cats (at least usually)that's why dogs often get a serious case of runny poops when they get into the cat foods The even more serious problem is that there are huge mineral difficiencies, one of the largest being the lack or the insignificant amount of taurine in dog foods. Cats and ferrets develop serious health issues (heart problems and blindness) if there isn't enough taurine in their diet. That's why some people on the list supplement taurine even when they're feeding raw. Good luck, hope things work out for her and it turns out to be nothing more than a hair ball ciao
|
|
|
Post by faunafreak on Nov 17, 2009 21:00:22 GMT -5
I'm taking Keller - or at least a fecal sample - in to the vet tomorrow. For the past day or so, I've noticed dark green liquid in the ferrets' favorite poop areas. I've also noticed that neither Llullu or Keller are coming out as often as usual, and when I made soup (the cooked kind) tonight, I had to find Keller and bring him to the soup. He only stayed for a moment before disappearing again, and he's usually the biggest eater. His coat is unkempt, and he appears dehydrated (the skin remains tented after I pinch it or when I scruff him). I mixed up a 50/50 solution of water and unflavored pedialyte and forced a little down him with a dropper, and gave him a bit of freshly prepared soup in the same manner. After I put him down, he ran off to poop, and I followed him. He whimpered the entire time, and was VERY prolapsed after (it almost looked like his anus turned inside out). I'm very worried about ECE.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Nov 18, 2009 0:09:40 GMT -5
Has Keller been in contact with other ferrets?? I would think it odd that he's come in contact with it or is coming down with it at this time. Poor Keller, it sounds to me that he is indeed very ill. I would take him in to the vet's along with a stool sample (though I find that the brats usually are very cooperative about pooping "on" a vet. I would be asking for a blood workup at this point, to see where things stood with your little one. I will light a healing candle for Keller, I hope that you find that it's nothing serious, good luck ciao
|
|
|
Post by faunafreak on Nov 19, 2009 22:26:27 GMT -5
All 3 ferrets were at the shelter for boarding 3 weeks ago, and I know they were initially put in with two new ferrets (both under a year - one just 2-3 months old), but both of those ferrets were at the WCC for a few days before being sent to the shelter, and the vets don't send the ferrets on until they've been determined healthy and adoptable.
A fecal from Keller showed that he does indeed have a GI infection (the Dr. is 95% sure that it's ECE, based on the symptoms), but in addition to that, his kidneys weren't functioning properly. Dr. Grant said that normally, dehydration causes the kidneys to suck all the water out, producing a thick urine, but the urine was completely normal. He spent the night at the vet so they could keep an eye on him and administer fluids intravenously. When Dr. Grant called this afternoon, she said that Keller was MUCH better, extremely active and such. He must have worn himself out, because when I got home, he was out. He didn't want to wake up, and seemed a little unsteady when he did. I woke him up to give him some Carnivore Care, which he (fortunately enough) lapped up without any issue. However, he wanted nothing to do with the Pedialyte/water - to the point of biting the syringe. The doctor has him on Flagyl, Carafate, Ponazril, Panacur, and Carnivore Care (also a 50/50 Pedialyte/Water blend).
What really surprised me was that when I got the breakdown of his diagnosis, he has not only ECE but Coccidia. I had a fecal done on Llullu at the same time, and hers was perfectly normal - no Clostridium (yay!), no virus, no Coccidia. I asked about the lack of viral infection in one ferret - especially since they all went to the shelter, and they stay in the same cage here - but not the other, and she said that if Ushba and Llullu had ever been exposed to the virus before, they would likely have some resistance to it. Also, with Keller being older and having kidney issues, his immune system would be more compromised as well. I did some reading, and found that Coccidia is a pretty common parasite in most animals, especially young or immuno-compromised ones. But should I be treating ALL of my animals (cats included) for the Coccidia, just in case? I'll be calling about that tomorrow. In the meantime, I'll be disinfecting my house.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Nov 20, 2009 13:52:38 GMT -5
That's really unfortunate. I'm sorry to hear that Keller is that ill. As far as treating coccidia.....I've heard conflicting information...try ferrethealth and post your question there. I"ve heard that everyone should be treated, and I've heard that just the infected ferret should be treated. I do know that it is a difficult infection to irradicate and has a tendency to go into hiding and reappear when the body is stressed again. I've also heard that coccidia is a hard bug to catch up with (meaning that even a negative may well be a positive ) The fact that Keller's kidneys are failing might actually set him up for a lot of the problems you're seeing. My Loki bear is the same way. As sick as he was a few weeks ago his urine was almost clear and right now (he's being treated for kidney failure) it is clear and a lot of it. As Loki is 8 or 9 yrs old we are giving supportive care only, no extreme measures will be taken to prolong his life. He will be kept comfortable and have his ulcers treated as they come up (because the failing kidneys but stress on the body as a whole, ulcers become more chronic than a one shot deal) Good luck and keep me posted. A healing candle is lit for Keller, give him a hug and tell him to get better from me ciao
|
|
|
Post by faunafreak on Nov 24, 2009 14:18:21 GMT -5
Keller is feeling much better - yesterday I saw him eating some solid food. Hopefully It won't be too much of an issue to get him back to raw (I've discontinued the raw food until I know that everyone's healthy). I actually started treating the other two the day after Keller came home. Ushba began displaying symptoms, and when the vet called to check up on Keller she mentioned that she had planned on talking to my husband about treating all three of them, but was in the middle of an appointment when he arrived. Ushba and Llullu aren't getting everything that Keller is (they're only on the Ponazuril). Llullu hasn't been acting abnormally. She's eating and drinking on her own, and her poops look fine. She and Keller are getting the Carnivore Care as a soup, but I'm not making htem drink any more than they want at a sitting. At the moment, I've got all three separated (Ushba's on one level of the FN and Llullu's on another, while Keller is in a separate cage), but I'm thinking of disinfecting the FN cage and putting Llullu and Keller in there, and moving Ushba to the separate cage once I've disinfected it.
Ushba is the one I'm concerned about now. He's acting ok - aside from sleeping a lot - but he hasn't been eating or drinking that I've seen. I've got him on the Pedialyte/water mix and Carnivore Care, but I have to syringe feed him. Even worse, I noticed earlier today that he's lost a tooth (one of the small ones between the upper canines), and the tooth next to it is extremely loose. Is this related - maybe because he's not eating? I'm wondering if I should get some fluids and SubQ him
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Nov 24, 2009 15:19:46 GMT -5
I would be a little concerned as to why Ushba is loosing his teeth?? He may not want to eat and drink because his mouth is sore. I know that Napoleon, stoic though he was, probably suffered considerably with his back molar. I only found it because his mouth smelled terrible and I was thinking a piece of meat had got caught in between the teeth. Once the vet pulled the tooth, he was back to his old self. I would get your vet to look at his mouth and make sure there isn't a gum infection that is aggravating the issue. A ferret eating less, sleeping more is a ferret in trouble. Unfortunately, ferret illnesses seem to come in clumps. I believe (no proof) that a ferret's immune system (particularly farm ferrets) is so compromised that when one thing goes wrong it creates a domino effect and it usually opens up and reveals underlying issues that have been either simmering or been lying dormant in the background. I'm glad to hear that Keller and Llullu are on the mend that's always a positive note. Keep me posted as to how your little ones are doing. Give Ushba a big hug for me and tell him to get better. ciao
|
|
|
Post by faunafreak on Dec 1, 2009 15:13:05 GMT -5
Just updating: The vet was already closed for Thanksgiving, so I called Jane, who cares for the shelter's hospice ferrets. She was more than happy to bring over some fluids, and Ushba was given SubQ's both Wednesday (11/25) and Friday. The tooth was loose enough for me to pull out with some tweezers, and Jane also gave me some antibacterial oral fluid. That, along with the Ponazuril, should keep the area from getting infected. By Thursday night, he was eating and drinking on his own, and now all ferrets are doing well (poor Llullu didn't get sick at all, she just ended up getting medicated and kept in a cage for 5 days as a precaution). They're still getting the special soup recipe (2 cubes of their usual soup, 1 tbsp of Carnivore Care, and a spoonful of a/d canned food all mixed with hot water: Jane suggested adding the usual soup and the a/d to the mix to encourage the ferts' appetites) until Ushba and Keller are completely better. The cats will be starting on Albon today, and I'm trying to disinfect the house as best as I can.
I've heard 2 different ways to disinfect - a 15% bleach solution, or a 10% ammonia solution. Any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Dec 2, 2009 1:23:34 GMT -5
I'm glad that you were able to deal with that tooth yourself. Nice work. The best cleaning solution ever.....a spray bottle of vinegar/water and a separate bottle of hydrogen peroxide. Spray one, wipe then spray the other and wipe. Seemingly, it's better than either amonia or bleach. You can look it up the internet. I believe there was a discussion about it in the health section on this forum. Good luck, I hope your little ones start feeling better soon ciao
|
|
|
Post by faunafreak on Dec 8, 2009 18:27:35 GMT -5
Well, everyone seems to be feeling better, and I used your suggestion to wipe down their cage, shelves, litter boxes and food dishes. Tomorrow I'll be doing the spare cage and toys. All laundry (human and fuzzy) is being washed with a little bleach. They've only got two days left of meds, and then will be staying with a co-worker for a few days while Skye and I go to his mom's graduation. I'm not taking them to the shelter, since a) I don't know if they're still shedding any virus or coccidia, and b) I don't know where else they could have gotten sick in the first place. The girl they're staying with hasn't had ferrets since she moved to Florida, and doesn't plan on getting any more for a while. This way I can make sure not to get any other ferts sick. When we get back, we're going to start with the raw again. Keller's been eating a little bit already, but I want to try that raw soup of yours for the other (cats and ferts). I'd like to do more than just chicken - especially with Morphia's stomach - but money's been tight, so we'll just have to do what we can. Thanks for your help and patience
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Dec 9, 2009 1:13:14 GMT -5
No problem. We'll be all set to go when you get back Enjoy yourself. ciao
|
|