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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 20, 2011 22:26:07 GMT -5
It seems that the more convinced the ferrent is the easier the ferret will take to it. At least that was the way Pixie was - when I waffled over it, she just ran all over me and refused to eat, but once I really knew I was doing the right thing and just went at it, she caved! And pretty easily, too Ferts are smart. Stubborn, but smart, and your girls are finally getting their tastebuds on track. I'm so happy for all of you, and I'm grateful to be able to help you out! Like you said, give it two days and then try adding in some diced meat, leaving the kibble amount alone. If they still enjoy it, I'd try the diced bits AND reducing the kibble. For Evie and Bomber, are they getting just the wing tip (minus the thicker drummette portion)? Those are generally more suitable for ferts (although my guys don't shy from the drummette, but I take it the Tetrad is more adventurous with bone than most). Also, do you have cornish game hens/rock hens at your grocery? If so, those are great for ferrets (especially newbies), since the bones (of the whole thing) are smaller. Playing with meat chunk sizes can also help build the jaw strength, so if they're having a boneless meal, cutting the meat into one-inch size pieces are great (if they're at the stage where they'll eat them). If not, start smaller, and build up to the that. Hearts are great, and if you can already get those in, then do it, LOL! Hiko, when I first got him, snatched a duck heart straight out of Sian's mouth, although he'd never had raw before. He couldn't actually *eat* it right then, but he gave it his best shot and gnawed it like crazy. They seem to be partial to those, no matter the diet, apparently. I definitely thought it was hilarious/amazing.
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trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
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Post by trippyferret on Jan 21, 2011 9:36:39 GMT -5
Ok, so since I've got Salem and Gwenner eating their soups consistently, I was thinking about forgoing leaving any kibble out during the day now. I was also thinking I can start putting the big kids fully on raw, and just separate them when they're eating. Would you feed the soups twice a day just like you do with raw? Also, if I'm going to put the big kids fully on raw, I need to start really thinking about a menu plan for them. They had gizzards this morning, and loved them! Ate almost all of them. This is the menu plan I had saved, but it will probably need some tweaks depending on what I can find in my area. Sherry helped me out with this a while back. I am having a hard time finding chicken necks, so I think I will need to change that to something else. Hearts I may have to supplement with taurine sometimes because there are so few in a pack of gizzards. I'm stopping by Save-a-Lot later today to see if I can find anything suitable to use for organs apart from liver. Salem's at the vet right now having her teeth done, so I am waiting for the call when she's ready to be picked up. Sun -chicken livers/other organs -chicken necks Mon -turkey necks -chicken hearts Tues -chicken wings -beef chunks Wed -turkey neck -chicken gizzards Thurs -chicken necks -pork chunks Fri -chicken thighs -turkey neck Sat -soup -chicken necks or wings They will be getting other random meats like mice, lamb, duck, whatever I can find every now and then. I will have to check about the cornish game hens. I'm not sure how I would cut one up. And you're right about the wings, they don't eat that big chunky drummette type bone. Maybe I can cut that part off and give it to my dogs.
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trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
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Post by trippyferret on Jan 21, 2011 11:40:13 GMT -5
So Salem is home, and did not have a dental. The vet felt uncomfortable putting a ferret her age under. She is taking clyndamycin now for a small infection. Guess I will just have to wait for the raw to do the cleaning for me!
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 21, 2011 16:38:05 GMT -5
If you feel ready to pick up the kibble, then definitely go ahead! I don't know quite the portions the girls are getting soup wise, but females have a 2-3 oz (average) requirement a day. This is of course differs with the amount of liquid comprising the diet, but generally 2-3 time a day with generous portions should be plenty fine for the older girls (the higher protein will stabilize their blood glucose, so they won't need to eat as often to be healthy).
For a feeding schedule, I do it by the number of meals:
14 meals - 8/9 bone meals - 2 heart meals (in your case this might just be one meal) - 1 organ meal (any organ; portion size = that of a chicken liver) - 3/2 "other" muscle meat (add another meat meal if you can't get two heart meals in, making it 4/3, depending)
Your schedule as it stands now is pretty decent. You have 4 staple protein sources (chicken, turkey, beef and pork), plus the other variety you'll throw in when you can.
However, I'd up the bone meals by 1 or 2 (by my count you have 7). And since you have a hard time getting hearts, you could do maybe one meal of actual heart and add another meal into the muscle meat category (darker meats have higher taurine. For the best levels, it needs to be as fresh as possible and minimally processed).
And feel free to supplement taurine, especially if hearts are scarce, because it can be an iffy thing regulating it through other meats like that (levels can be unreliable). Either way, it definitely won't hurt!
And best wishes to Salem - I hope everything clears up well!
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trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
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Post by trippyferret on Jan 21, 2011 17:26:18 GMT -5
Ok, I tweaked the schedule a bit. I swapped the chicken necks for legs and moved a few things around. Also I picked ground meat because it would be easier to mix a taurine supplement in. I am having trouble figuring out where I should put the other taurine-supplemented meal. One 500mg tablet crushes up to be quite a bit of powder, and I don't see taurine-coated meat chunks going over too well. Unless I could perhaps change pork chunks to ground pork or something like that. What do you think? Sun -chicken livers/other organs -chicken wings Mon -turkey necks -chicken hearts or ground meat with taurine supplement Tues -chicken legs -beef chunks Wed -turkey necks -chicken gizzards Thurs -chicken thighs -pork chunks Fri -chicken wings -turkey necks Sat -Chicken thighs -chicken legs or wings I'm also having problems finding organs other than livers. I checked Walmart and Save-a-Lot and they had nothing. So next I have to check Kroger and Piggly Wiggly. What all is considered an organ meat exactly? Oh, and no worries, I feed the fuzzies as much as they want in one sitting, so I'm not worried about starving them.
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 21, 2011 17:42:59 GMT -5
Some organs are: livers, kidneys, pancreas and brain. You can change pork chunks to ground, but remember texture is just as important as variety, too, so having different textures is important. I know some people feed soup/gravy daily (not counting it as a meal), maybe you could do something like that, instead, and add in the supplement? It doesn't have to be a lot, of course, just enough to get the supplement mixed in and then eaten And chicken legs can definitely pose a problem, bone-wise - they are generally too big and dense for a ferret to successfully eat . Cut up chicken backs are great, as are wing tips (and gamehens! Walmart has them for about $1.29 - that's where I get them, LOL. These things are great [and count as ANOTHER source!] size wise for ferts). The only other problem I see (and this is more of a warning than a problem, as ferrets differ) is that both Friday and Saturday are two bone meal days. Having that back to back can cause a constipation issue. If that does become an issue, here's another (general) schedule: Mon - bone -heart/muscle Tues - bone - muscle Weds - bone - bone Thurs bone in hearts/muscle meat Fri - bone in - muscle meat Sat bone muscle Sun bone bone This isn't something you have to adopt, it's only an example if a problem arises or maybe I misread your schedule, b/c I don't see two days of bone meals now :\ If I made mistake, just ignore this ^, sorry!
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trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
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Post by trippyferret on Jan 21, 2011 18:03:00 GMT -5
That helped a lot! The soupies idea works PERFECT for me. I can mix it in some meat baby food no problem. How do you feel about me doing that daily with about 250 MG taurine? Ok, here we go, third time I think will be the charm. Sun -chicken livers/other organs -chicken wings
Mon -turkey necks -chicken hearts or muscle meat
Tues -chicken backs -beef chunks
Wed -turkey necks -chicken gizzards
Thurs -chicken wings -turkey necks
Fri -chicken thighs -pork chunks
Sat -Chicken thighs -chicken backs or wings
And then of course, if I can find RCGH as cheap as you've got, for sure I will alternate that in.
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 21, 2011 18:35:33 GMT -5
I think my schedule confused things, since I misread yours (AND I didn't slot in organ meals [since I give ground bone in with organ, I don't have a separate organ meal in the week, so that was my fault!], thinking you had Friday as a double bone day and Saturday as a double bone day when in fact you were in the clear so just replace the Friday's chicken meat with a bone meal and you're done! I AM SO SORRY (apparently I like making you type and retype thing *is evil*) :C I just got done from a day of doing gifted assessments at a local school so I'm a bit And the soup daily sounds great!
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trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
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Post by trippyferret on Jan 21, 2011 18:52:43 GMT -5
Lucky for me, I know how to copy and paste. For Friday, you said I need to replace chicken meat with a bone-in, but I already had a bone-in chicken thigh for that day. So I'm confused. lol. Maybe you meant the pork chunks? I have no idea.
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 21, 2011 19:01:26 GMT -5
Okay, no. My fault again - when I see "chicken thighs" I immediately think boneless (probably b/c that's the only chicken thigh I buy, LOL). So all the chicken thighs are bone in?
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 21, 2011 19:02:56 GMT -5
Okay, we're at eight, then, and your schedule (the last one you posted) looks pretty good to me sorry about all the confusion!
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trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
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Post by trippyferret on Jan 21, 2011 19:15:13 GMT -5
Ok, I think they're bone in. I don't know. It didn't say otherwise on the package. I'll need to de-freeze them to check. If not, I'll find something else bone-in. Any ideas?
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 21, 2011 19:17:59 GMT -5
you can use pork *riblets* (and it'd get a bit more pork in the schedule as well), and I don't know what stores around you carry, but generally, you're best bet is to keep the weight bearing bones to a minimum (things like the legs, etc), although the very ends do contain a lot of nutrients, because ferts can't/won't eat them.
I know that's vague, but in terms of commercial chains you aren't going to get much variety in the bone (beyond chicken, cgh, riblets, and turkey necks/wing tips), at least not that I've seen. If you have specialty/butcher shops or ethnic markets, you can look there for stuff like rabbit and the like.
I also feed some fish (tilapia and salmon mostly, although I have tried others), and I know some ferrents here feed sardines and smelt (?) so that's always an option, as well. Some ferts can be picky about it, but my guys love 'em!
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 21, 2011 19:32:04 GMT -5
and generally, the thighs will say "boneless," so it's probably a good bet that they are bone in. Also, the size is a giveaway - if they're boneless the package is pretty small and flat.
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trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
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Post by trippyferret on Jan 22, 2011 18:00:40 GMT -5
Pork tips sound good to me! I think I'll swap out one of the turkey neck meals to pork tips. The big kids had pork chunks for breakfast and loved them. Tonight they're getting the thighs(and yes, they do indeed have bone! yay!). They have been doing great, I think it helps a lot that they are hungry, and have eaten everything I've put in front of them so far. I'm not sure how they will do with liver tomorrow, but I know they will eat it pureed so if I have to I will do that. I've always heard they can't eat much fish, so I've never bothered with it really. I have occasionally given Evie cooked shrimp when my hubby buys the shrimp platters, and she really likes that. Tonight the soup eaters are going to get some small chunks mixed in, so let's hope that goes well! I have a feeling that it will. I have another question. How far apart do you do feedings? I've been doing them 12 hours apart, at 9 am and 9 pm. And the soup eaters get an extra meal in the middle of the day. Plus I give everyone a small snack in the afternoon which is the baby food with the taurine supplement.
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