|
Post by Heather on Jan 13, 2011 1:21:16 GMT -5
Name: HF Forum Username:
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?
I learned of it a few years ago when I was a member over at Ferret Village.
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I am looking to switch my ferrets fully to a raw diet, with whole prey every now and then.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
I know that it is the best for my ferrets, and for them I only want the best! I want them to live long, healthy lives.
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
I am willing to make the commitment. My fuzzies mean everything to me. I would do anything for them. I have two of the pickiest girls in the world, and will do what it takes to get them eating natural.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?
Salem, female, 7 years old and healthy. Gwendolyn, female, 3 years old and healthy. Evelyn, female, 2 years old and healthy. Bomber, male, 2 years old and healthy.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
We feed a 50/50 kibble mix of Blue Wilderness Duck and Taste of the Wild. They get salmon oil often, and I try to give raw meats as treats. I also like giving meat jerky treats, and every now and then we do live mice, which they love!
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
No, but I have tried to supplement it into their diet. But it's been difficult with two picky girls.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
My name is Morgan, I'm 23, and have owned ferrets for about 7 years. Bomber and Evelyn have taken to raw meats very well, but Salem and Gwendolyn have proven to be very picky and it has been a struggle getting them to try new things.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
I have daily access.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Sunnyberra) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Jan 13, 2011 2:20:18 GMT -5
Hi, I'm Annie (known on here as sunny or sunnyberra ), and I'll be helping you switch your guys to a raw/natural diet. I'm a new mentor, so we're going to have more experienced mentors dropping in and checking on us from time to time, as well. I'm 24, and a graduate student in school psychology/clinical psychology here in the wonderful state of Virginia. I've been a proud ferrent for a little over 5 years, now, and have been feeding raw to my fuzzies for three of those years. I currently have four ferrets: Pixie, who's a bit over 5 years, now; and then the other three are all two: Yogi, Sian, and Hiko. I first decided to switch after doing a bit of independent research after Pixie and her brother, Yew, turned two. That was the age I was dreading as a new ferrent - it seemed so scary, as I read more and more about the illnesses that seemed to start cropping up around that age. I decided then to do everything I could to lessen my guys' risk. One of those things was getting them off of kibble and onto a more natural diet. There are quite a few methods used for switching. For my guys, I decided to disallow kibble. Instead, I offered kibble coated boneless chicken chunks and I would supplement feed meals of baby food every few hours after the initial fasting period (Yew also got soup, made from pureed chicken meat, baby food and olive oil, because he liked it, whereas Pixie didn't). After a bit of hair pulling, they were both switched completely by the end of a week, and they never looked back. Sadly, Yew's since passed away, and I eventually introduced Yogi (first) and Sian (second) as kits, and both were eating meat chunks the same night I got them. Hiko is my newest, a two year old rescue who had been used to eating sugary treats (gummi bears) and sugary kibble. I treated him the same as the others - gave him kibble-dusted meat chunks, and he started eating them that first night. By his second evening with me, he was completely on raw. By the end of the week, he was eating bone-in. Now, he's a proud raw-eating pro, who occasionally enjoys a frozen/thawed quail or two. So, it's possible. It might seem tedious or nerve-wracking, but we'll get your guys there, with a method that works for you *and* for them! It's great that Evelyn and Bomber like raw meats, but I see your other two girls are more finicky. Do you mind telling me how you tried to get them to taste the treats? And I see you give salmon oil, too (I've just recently got some, myself, and have yet to see if my guys like it!), so I take it even Salem and Gwendolyn like that? How about treats like baby food and such? I'm just trying to get a sense of what could work as incentives for your little ones.
|
|
trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
|
Post by trippyferret on Jan 13, 2011 16:06:37 GMT -5
Hello Annie! Thanks for taking me and my kids on! Salmon oil is a HUGE hit with all of my fuzzies. It's like crack for them. I have used it to entice Salem and Gwen to eat very very small pieces of chicken, but haven't been able to get farther than that. Bomber and Evie do eat most raw meats, which I am thankful for. I started giving Evelyn raw meats from when I got her as a kit, so she took to it right away. She's the one who will eat pretty much anything I put in front of her. Bomber was raised by Julie from GFX on raw soups and mice, and he has taken to most things I've put in front of him. Sometimes it takes a little enticement(chopping into small pieces or cutting some meat off the bone). Gwen and Salem... oh boy. These two have been difficult. Gwen is 3 and Salem is 7. They're quite imprinted on kibble! However, I have been able to get them to eat just about any kibble provided I slowly mix it into the old. So I'm using that to my advantage. I read a thread where someone recommended you start by gradually wetting the kibble more and more, and once they are used to eating it wet, start gradually adding a little ground meat and then you move up to chunks and then bigger chunks and so on and so forth. Right now we're at the point where they are eating the kibble mostly wet, and probably tomorrow I'm going to wet it completely. So far, some of the things I've tried: Scruff and stuff: works somewhat with Gwen, but Salem puts up a fight. Soups: Gwen and Salem won't touch. I put in very little meat and mostly meat baby food. But they know the difference. Can't even get Salem to eat it mixed with Pingford's porridge. But she will eat it by itself or with pumpkin. Ground chicken: This went really well when covered with salmon oil. Meat with kibble dust "breading": Gwen and Salem actually nibbled a few bites! Not much, but it was something. Fasting: Salem, being older, does not take well to fasting and it gave her diarrhea, so I only take food away 3 hours max. Whole prey: We've only done mice, which we usually do live, and they do wonderfully. They eat everything but the intestines.
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Jan 13, 2011 16:34:17 GMT -5
Well, they are picky little things, LOL! And you're right, Salem being older, I'd only fast for as long as you're comfortable with, as long as you get a *bit* of time between kibble and what you're trying to introduce, every time you offer it. If they are showing a bit of a stomach issue, giving them a bit of pumpkin a day (1/2 tsp, similar) will help soothe the tummy and firm up the poos. Also, I think probiotics are great for switching (I use Benebac, 1/2 gram myself).
It's great that you're getting the textures in there, that should help their minds get out of the rut and start seeing new things as potentially edible. I'd advise you consistently offer them what they will eat (the baby food, kibble dusted ground chicken, etc) even if it's just a little bit at a time they actually get. This will help them remember foods they HAVE eaten before, LOL, and that's half the battle with these guys. Another great thing is them watching the others eat: being around it, smelling it, that will do wonders for getting them interested.
If they like baby food, I'd maybe start by mixing in a bit of just babyfood with the moistened kibble, as well, so they get a stronger taste of "meat" in there and get used to it, as well. Just remember that moist kibble spoils quickly, so you're going to have to replace it often if it isn't eaten.
|
|
trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
|
Post by trippyferret on Jan 13, 2011 23:22:57 GMT -5
Ah yes, I'm quite familiar with pumpkin! I always use it during hairball season, or if they get a case of diarrhea or I think they might have ate something they shouldn't! Would plain yogurt work the same as Benebac? I think I've heard of people using that before. I don't have too many problems with poop lately though. In fact, they seem more solid since I started wetting their kibble(weird!). As for them watching the others eat, it doesn't work with these girls. They could care less! Gwen might take a nibble just to see what it is, then decide it's gross and wanders off to do other ferrety things. Salem shows no interest at all. I forgot to mention that Salem seems to like chicken heart. I chopped it up very fine last week and she seemed to enjoy it(with salmon oil, of course!). Or at least, she ate more of it than the finely chopped chicken breast. So that's something, I think! I might go back to the salmon oil or ground kibble coating route. I'm worried about their kibble spoiling while I go to school and work.
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Jan 14, 2011 0:29:00 GMT -5
I have heard of using plain yogurt to restore intestinal flora, but I'll double check on that for you (it was talked about here on the comm; even had what serving size, I think).
Generally speaking I find that ferrets are kind of "eh" about others eating, but my guys always get a sharpened interest when they've been without "their" food for a couple/few hours and their friends are filling bellies and then I can swoop in, handfeed, and be a hero. I didn't know if that'd pique interest in your guys (it was worth a shot!).
And hey, even mouthing it and spitting it out is better than nothing. Pixie didn't eat raw food until (in one of the million scruff and stuff sessions) she out of the blue decided chicken breast was delicious and scarfed all of it down (off my fingers, of course), so you never know!
Hearts are great foods for her to chew on, as they're wonderfully high in taurine. So great choice on her part (and it's funny, that's the first thing Hiko chewed on when I brought him home)!
Loose stools are generally a sign of food passing too quickly (just like seedy stools or green stools are). Possibly, the reason that's slowing down a bit is because moistening it means that it isn't so hard to try to digest and they can process a bit more of it.
Keep on with offering oil enchanced/kibble dusted bits of whatever they like. That's a method I'd definitely stay with, since they seem to take that best. I think right now actually getting them to eat *something* is going to be best instead of trying a wide range of iffy things. Just remember (and this will be key), always wait a couple/few kibble-less hours before putting down the raw food.
And yeah - moistened food is iffy and can be hard to work with if you're not home constantly. Generally, it's only good for a few hours at room temperature before it starts to go sour. Usually the smell warns the animal off, and they won't eat it, but sometimes they do, and that's not an illness anyone wants to deal with. If it becomes a problem, you might have to resort to leaving hard kibble in there with them while there switching.
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Jan 14, 2011 0:50:04 GMT -5
... and Heather is amazing. I talked with her about the yogurt thing, and while she said you could, you have to make absolutely certain that it is plain, organic and has no sugars, additives, things like that. She suggested a few things: kefir, which seems to be both similar to yogurt and fundamentally different (LOL). I don't know much about it but here's this link: www.kefir.net/Heather herself prefers pumpkin and slippery elm bark for any upsets during transitions. So there's a few thoughts With the way we are trying it, there shouldn't be a major issue right now. Generally it can be when a ferret's already a bit sensitive (and I don't know if your girls are), so if you give pumpkin occasionally you should be covered!
|
|
trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
|
Post by trippyferret on Jan 14, 2011 11:36:41 GMT -5
So this morning we had ground turkey for breakfast. It seemed to go over pretty well. Salem seemed to eat it(most of it was licking the salmon oil off, lol). Gwen, well, she is a pain in the butt. I had to scruff and stuff. Even though I knew she was hungry. And of course, Bomber and Evie stuffed their faces. Salem seems to be more on the right track than Gwen does. It used to be the other way around. At least I got a little in their bellies this morning. I will try again tonight. I would've gave them ground chicken, but since the ice storm we had down here, stores haven't restocked their shelves yet and all I could find ground was turkey. I'm thinking I need to invest in a meat grinder.
|
|
trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
|
Post by trippyferret on Jan 14, 2011 11:39:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Jan 14, 2011 15:30:51 GMT -5
That's great! And it's normal for ferrets to flip flop around, so no worries there. When Gwen seemed hungry, did you put her in your lap ( generally have their hind legs on my thigh and their two front legs resting on a free hand) and try handfeeding (outside of the scruff and stuff session)?
Taking a step back and reevaluating, though, I know you've tried soups, but have those soups actually included their kibble in it? Sometimes you have better luck with that when they're finicky (and it's easier to get the ferret to taste it, as well, just by rubbing it over their mouths).
I know Heather has a recipe she uses with her switches and if Gwen continues being reticent about eating the raw, I could get that for you if interested.
About the grinder - I'm thinking it's not going to be able to handle bone. I don't grind my own, but from the discussions I found that you need a heavy duty machine to handle it, and those tend to be expensive. You can try it and see, though, if you wanted. Or you could ask around the forum here (I know some grind their own, so they'd be able to help you).
|
|
trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
|
Post by trippyferret on Jan 14, 2011 15:39:11 GMT -5
No, I've never really included ferret kibble in their soups. I use meat baby food as a base, then I'll add things like raw egg, Pingford's Porridge, or pumpkin. I would like to see Heather's recipe! In a few hours we're going to try ground turkey again. I just took away the crunchies about 30 mins ago. The big kids are getting chicken wings for dinner. Evie loves those, but Bomber hasn't had one before. It sucks most grinders don't do bone. Maybe I could do powdered egg shell? I just bought a mortar and pestle last month. How much eggshell could I add to a meal of ground meat?
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Jan 14, 2011 16:00:14 GMT -5
It was actually Sherrylynne's switching thread with Vkp23, my bad, and it was: 8 oz of chicken meat couple hearts 2 oz of liver 1/2 tsp powdered eggshell (that's generally the rule - for every cup of meat add 1/2 tsp ) You can add in a bit of pumpkin here if you'd like (since this is the overlap I was talking about that *could* create some upset), but to add in their food, you can soak some kibble in boiling water (per Sherrylynne's suggestion), set it aside, puree the above raw ingredients together and then add in the softened kibble and puree again. After you dish out the first meal, you can freeze the remainder in baggies or ice trays Then, when unthawing again, you can add a bit of water, if the mix is too thick in the beginning.
|
|
trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
|
Post by trippyferret on Jan 14, 2011 18:08:44 GMT -5
Thank you! I will have to try that. I will try and pick up the ingredients when I get off work tomorrow. So we've had good success tonight! Salem and Gwen were finger-fed a decent amount of ground turkey tonight! Wouldn't eat it off the plate, but still wonderful! So proud of my girls. Evie and Bomber were lazy about the wing I gave them. They ate the thin part, but did not progress to the meatier, bonier part. Instead, they wanted Salem and Gwen's ground. Dang lazy ferrets!
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Jan 14, 2011 19:01:30 GMT -5
Ferrets are lazy, if given even half a chance. You can (if you want) take a hammer to the wings to break up the bone a bit for them, and/or make slits in the flesh to get them a better grip (it takes a bit before a ferret builds up the jaw strength and the know-how on how to turn heads, use the right teeth). But congratulations! Your guys are getting the hang of it, I'm so happy for you *and* for them
|
|
trippyferret
Gnawing on bones
The Weasels of Warcraft be goin' natural!
Posts: 78
|
Post by trippyferret on Jan 15, 2011 9:24:13 GMT -5
Just letting you know, I'm usually out all day on Saturdays and Sundays for work, but I will try and get you an update this evening/tonight!
|
|