Vkp23's Switching Thread/sherrylynne

[Heather]

Name:Virginia

HF Forum Username:vkp23

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?

Funny enough from YouTube. I came across a vid of someone feeding a live mouse to a ferret and thought it was cool and decided then that was what I wanted to do.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.

I would like to do whole prey (frozen-thawed) for the most part. I raise chickens so I'd like to be able to use that to my advantage. Either with raw eggs, half incubated embryos, or chicks. I also, have found an affordable place to get frozen mice and rats etc. I would also be interested in giving my ferret some good "clean" fun with a live mouse treat every now and then. I could also do any other meats I can buy at a store (beef chicken etc) as well as when we butcher broiler chickens for our selves. I would have the "giblets" and wings and what not left over.

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?

I originally just found it interesting, then the more I looked into it the more I saw that not only is it better for the ferret but also better for us humans. For the humans I find it entertaining (strange I know) and great for the smell of the ferret and also can be very affordable considering I can actually raise some of the "food" myself. Better for the ferret because it's better for digestion and a healthy ferret is a happy one. Plus just eating what she would in the wild seems to me would make her a happier girl. Give her more to do. Better for her teeth etc.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?

Yes! I understand that this will take a while with my girl cause she's already proving to be a picky eater. I have tried to give her raw egg before and raw ground beef and she was NOT into it at all! And as far as the egg/chick thing goes any way, I need some time before I will have those things available. We have had a predator eating our chickens and until we get that taken care of we are in trouble because we have gone from about 80 to about 10 chickens and they are so stressed right now the hens are not laying. Come spring when we get our taxes we will be fixing the pen/yard to be safer and will be ordering more chicks to replenish our stock.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?

We currently have one little female. Her name is Miko. She is about 6 months old. No health problems. We are looking into adopting another one (or two if the fees are not that high and I can convince the hubby lol) Though again I may have to wait for tax time. We do file our taxes as soon as his W2 is available so we should have it by mid to late Jan.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)

right now she eats Marshall ferret diet. She wont touch anything else.

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?

Not really. I tried to give her something twice before and she wasn't interested.

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

My name is Virginia (as stated above) I live in Ga. I'm 27 years old. I have been married for 8 years (as of March 31 2011) to a wonderful man named Thomas. We only dated 2 months before we married. When we had been married for a little over a year we found I was pregnant with our first child. We now have 2 little girls (Lizzy-5 and Marlee-2) We raise chickens and are big time animal lovers. Our oldest wanted a pet and taking who are kids are into consideration I went on a crusade to find what would be the best pet for our kids and family. After weeks of research, I settled on ferrets. I got Miko from a pet store (I wanted to adopt but couldn't find a rescue) and she's been a joy to have since. She's great with the kids and just a ball of fun. I have since found a ferret rescue close by and have called to get info although they have yet to call me back.

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?

Every day.

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).

Got it!!

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (sherrylynne) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[sherrylynne]

Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch
First, a little about me. I'm 51, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 6yrs, to 17(only one would eat raw, unfortunately :. I also have 9 ferrets. Boris and Vincent came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead. I got her when she was 2. She's now 5, and adrenal. She's on lupron, and I've decided against surgery for her.
After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus and Athena, both two years old at that time. Also both adrenal, and on lupron.
After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's becoming a sweetie . Then, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of.Suki is the last one, I swear! She was a little 8 month old darling the pet store was having a hard time selling, so were getting ready to send her back!
While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. Although Boris would still be a kibble head if I let him.
The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet.
With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. Suki was another kibble head, but caging her in the daytime with Miss Emily showed her how to eat raw.
That's me and mine in a nutshell

The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma.
So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat
Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even my three year old's teeth are amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed!
And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay!
I'm looking forward to helping your little ones get on a much healthier diet, and having fun while we're at it ;D

[vkp23]

WOW! I TOTALLY didn't notice this till just now! Though I guess it's not TOO late after you posted. My situation has changed slightly. (If you read my thread in "find a ferret" that is titled "What's up with the shelters?" that will get you up to date more.) I brought home two adoption baby's today. They seem they were kept in horrid conditions. (Not by the shelter, they were only there over night) They are VERY thin. The boy has loose poo too. I was told that can/is normal for the amount of stress they've been under from where they came from (poor conditions) to the two days of travel they went through. They came from around Auburn Alabama to Athens Georgia through a chain of pass offs. They are eating and drinking fine. They are SO sweet too. Their names are Timmy and Zip. Though I'm thinking of modifying Zip's name to something like Zippy or Zipper. Zip is too short! LOL They seem they are picky as well and the owners didn't give foods they liked. The shelter lady gave me a TON of dif variety of foods. They seem to both like Marshall's along with Miko, which leads me to believe the owner in some way tried to give them high quality food but they didn't take to it well and only ate it to keep from dyeing and she didn't seem to care or really know what she was doing. I don't feel comfortable starting them on the switch til they get some weight on. Miko's weight is fine. What do you think? Also, I'm in slight of a pickle too. We have snow storms going on right now and our car is not built to handle the snow and our drive way is not friendly when snowed and Iced in. (we live in the boonies) Plus we are expected to have iced roads and we may end up losing power. So for getting out to get the stuff to start on the switch may take a few days because I may not even be able to leave the house. BUT in the mean time I'll have a TON of questions about how to go about this. (Unless I loose power! ) My first questions are
#1 What is the best soup to make?
#2 since they are seeming to be picky eaters, (and the other two are thin) is it wise to take their food away for a couple hours before trying to give them the soup?
#3 How do I give the soup? Spoon feed it? Just put it in a bowl in the cage?
What else do I need to know about switching? I'm new to this and starting from scratch so any and all help and advice is needed!

[sherrylynne]

Not a problem! That's why we're here
First, soup. About 8 oz chicken meat- any kind, a couple hearts, a liver(around 2oz), about 1/2 tsp powdered eggshell(since the new guys stool is still really iffy, I think I'd be adding in a tbsp of pumpkin as well), puree it all together, and freeze in ice cube trays, then baggie the cubes. For now, just take out one cube at a time, unless someone takes to it really well. Normal serving would be around 1-2 oz per female, 2-3 oz per male. They won't eat that quite yet, though
You can try offering it, see what they do. Odds are they'll turn their noses up at it. At that point, grab your chosen ferret, put them on your lap, and dab some on the ends of their noses so they have to lick it off. You might have to scruff to do this.
You'll likely have to do this several times over the course of a few days. If they seem to be licking it off ok, offer some on your finger. If they take that, then use a spoon.
And don't be surprised by any reaction you get! You will quite likely see spitting, retching, twisting, etc. Anything to get away from the "poison" you are trying to force them to eat
Persevere- they'll get over it!
As for your two new ones, I'd still take the kibble out for about 2 hours before hand. You don't want upset tummies from mixing the raw following the kibble. They digest at two different rates of speed, and it's not uncommon to cause digestive upsets for some ferrets. Give the kibble back when they go back into the cage.
It's actually quite normal with a switch to remove the kibble the night before, and attempt to give the soup in the morning. But I wouldn't with these two just yet. A couple hours should do fine.
Let me know how they do!

[vkp23]

And how do I find hearts? I know how to find the livers but no luck finding hearts. Also I read bits of the thread about bone and saw some one (I think you) said something about turkey neck bones being an exception. What do you mean? Like they shouldn't have the bone from a turkey neck? Or they just can't chew through the whole thing only part of it? And I think some one mentioned about how they shouldn't be eating bone from beef or pork but can chew on it? I'm confused. LOL I knew they couldn't eat the weight bearing bones but I was looking at some meat at the store (getting ideas and prices) and I came across some beef that was hocks or spine or something like that. I was thinking that the meat would be fine and if nothing else the bone there would be something nice for them to entertain them selves with and may could lick the marrow out. Is that not ok? Also beef tongue looked really cheap but really gross! LOL Does it count as a muscle or an organ? I guess the organ is the hardest thing for me to find. I'm going to look up if we have any butchers around here, but it isn't often to have any around here. In the 17 years I've lived here I don't think I've EVER heard of one being in Athens. But I'm going to yellow book it anyway.

[sherrylynne]

For the heart, you can use heart of any animal. Chicken is usually the mildest flavoured is all. For any of it, you might have to talk to the butcher, or even the meat manager at your local grocery. I order it in by the 10lb case(turkey hearts) from a raw feeding pet store.
Once they are on an entire raw diet, you'll want to be feeding heart at least once a week. If you can't find heart, you can use taurine supplements. These you can frequently pick up at a health food store, or some pharmacies will stock it in the supplement section.
With bone, yes, they can eat turkey necks, but will have to build up jaw strength for it. Mine only leave the hardest middle part. As for weight bearing bone, they can certainly tear the meat away from it. They should be fine with that. Bones they can eat are from animals chicken sized or smaller. Turkey necks are an exception, as are most tail bones.
Tongue is muscle meat. Organ meat are things like liver, spleen, lung, brain, pancreas, etc. Basically any part of the body that secretes fluids.
I think that cover's all of them And don't worry- keep asking away

[vkp23]

HOT DANG! Turns out we DO have a butcher here. Actually a few of them! I'll have to update more later.

[vkp23]

OK well an update. I'm still snowed in, and almost everything is closed even if I could get out, so no luck on getting out to any stores yet. OR getting to call any butcher stores. So I noticed that the little female rescue was eating but I wasn't happy with how much. She wasn't eating much at all. I'm worried about her getting some weight on and I don't know what food she likes. The shelter lady gave me TONS of zip loc bags of every kind of ferret food you can think of so I could provide a variety of foods to her. Since she wasn't eating much I though of adopting the soupies idea with it. I took small amounts of every food she gave me and put it in the blender. I blended it till it was a powder. I figured using a little of everything may would blend the flavors she liked and she would eat it. Any way. I took a heaping tablespoon of the powder and put it in a bowl and added water til it was soup like. IT WAS A HIT! I picked her up and held out the spoon to her and she just ate it all up. And the little rescue boy loved it too. While I was on the floor holding her and giving her the spoon of food he had his head deep in the bowl going to town. He had it all over his face! Miko was loving it too! So I was wondering. Since I want to get some weight on them and need to start the switch soon I was thinking. If mixing everything together works to get her to eat, and the other two love it too, can I switch all of them to this kibble soup as like a primary diet you know switching it out a couple times a day and taking the actual kibble out. That way they get used to soupie food. And then once they are used to soupie food and every one is eating good, make the raw soup too and slowly mix more and more raw soup and less and less kibble soup to get them used to the raw soup? That way they don't risk losing any more weight? Do you think that would work well?? I'm just so worried about her getting to skinny. She's already SO thin. Timmy is eating really well and even though his ribs are still sticking out and you can feel every bone in his back (not like he'd become a rolly polly in only two days) you can DEF tell he's going to do fine and gain weight. After the kibble soup he went to sleep and I rubbed on his belly and you could feel how full it was. Like he had been STARVED before and just pigged out. I'm I'm really scared she's too thin. She is the same size as Miko but SO much more thinner and lighter. Theres nothing to her. What do you think?

[sherrylynne]

I don't see why it wouldn't work! I used a "normal" cooked soup(which contained kibbles along with cooked meat) for switching mine .
The only thing I'd be careful of is leaving the kibble out of cage for too long a period of time with these guys. Still just take it out a couple hours in advance, feed the soupies, and put the bowl of kibble back in the cage when they go in. And for right now, give them as much as they'll eat.
When you CAN get out, do you have any large pet stores nearby? If so, try to pick up some kitten replacer milk powder. Mix in about a tsp of the powder with the soup for the added nutrients.
And just to let you know, if you pour boiling water on the kibble, it will soften by the time it's cooled, making it easier to puree

[vkp23]

I'm starting to get more relaxed about Zip. Her and Timmy are still really thin and you can feel way more bones on them then you should, BUT, they both are keeping full bellies now. YAY!! you can pet on their bellies and tell they are eating well. I'll get some weight on them yet dang it! I HAD noticed something strange about Timmy though. though it may not be all that strange and is just him. Any way, he going to the bathroom a lot. Like every 30 min or so when he's awake. when he goes, it isn't much poo or pee. It's just a little smidgen of poo and about a dropper of pee. I heard that trouble urinating is a sign of something (can't remember what) but I don't really know what trouble peeing in a ferret looks like. Is this what it looks like? Could it just be this is the way his body rolls? I'm not really noticing anything else on him. No excessive itching, no loss of hair, energy is fine. What do you think? Also, I am hoping to be able to get out of the house this week end. the roads have cleared up quite a bit, and now my husband is hijacking my car to go to work. So this week end we are filing our taxes, getting some shopping done and going to make a call or visit to that butcher shop.

[sherrylynne]

Adrenal is what causes urinary issues in males. But it's also possible it's just his body adjusting to having more food and fluid in it than he is accustomed to. If it is the latter, he should slow down in about 3 weeks or so.
With an enlarged prostate, you would likely see him straining to pee. I've not experienced this myself with my adrenal male(yet), so can't be certain. But this is what I've read.
Have you ever had a bladder infection? How you feel like you have to go, and strain to do so? Same idea, but without the infection.

[vkp23]

OH yeah I'm familiar with what a bladder infection is like. He doesn't to me seem to be actually straining to go. He lifts his tail and it does that little sake just like when Miko and Zip go. But it's not like he's sitting there for a long time looking like his eyes are gonna pop out from straining. they DID have a hard time of it though so it could be an adjustment period. They came from a neglectful home and had to take a long trip from one place to the other being passed off from person to person til they got to the shelter. They stayed the night at the shelter and I picked them up the next day. So I figured it was mostly stress related and though they are really starting to relax and play more, are awake more and eating more, I was thinking it would be a couple weeks til they really settled in. I'll keep an eye out on him and make sure he's doing well. Their immune system must be doing well any way because when I brought them home the pads of the feet and bellies were red. To me it looked like urine burns. Their bellies and feet are a nice pinkish white now like they should be. Poor babies, I don't even want to know how they were kept cause looks to me they were kept locked in a dirty cage 24/7. That first couple nights they slap freaked out when they were put in their cage for bed. It was like they thought they would NEVER be let out again. They've learned better now and don't give us a fuss at bed time.

[vkp23]

I just did some research, and I think he may actually have crystals in his urine. (The symptoms seem more like that than adrenal disease.) Which can be treated with antibiotics. The article on petMD I read said it is cause by feeding poor quality cat or dog foods NO surprise there. In the morning I'm going to call the animal hospital and explain to them whats going on and ask if I can bring in a urine sample for them to test.

[sherrylynne]

That's a good idea. But if they haven't seen him before, I'd be surprised if they can legally give you a prescription. I know the vet's here aren't allowed to.
Poor little mites. Odds are you're right about the dirty cage conditions. And if they were freaking at going back in, then yes, they weren't likely allowed out.
Good luck with them, and let me know what the vet says.

[vkp23]

Oh yes I will. He has an appointment in the morning. The lady I spoke with said it sounded like crystals or a UTI and not so much adrenal disease. And yeah I was figuring they would want to actually see him. I wasn't counting on just taking a sample in. LOL. One can hope though right? LOL. At any rate we'll get him taken care of. I'll let you know what they say tomorrow.