Freeze Dried or Kibble Options

[mjohn143]

Ok, so just to let everyone know, I did ask my mentor this, but I know she is REALLY busy with moving and a new job, so I fig I would ask here too until she can get back to me.

A little background:

Yes I know kibble is really bad, but I have had the HARDEST time with my little Badger (so appropriately named haha) switching to raw. Idk, maybe I am just not doing a good job, but she is just really hard to work with. She is very emotional and I really don't know anything about her except she was returned to the pet store (they said at 2 but she may have been older). Anyway I have had a hard time finding toys she enjoys, treats, anything. Anyway I have had her just under 2 years. She was my second ferret, so it was just her and Beatrice for a long time. Anyway, she was doing all right switching to at least a ground chicken soup mix, but when Beatrice died, she just totally reversed. She would immediately throw up anything I gave it and it was such a battle, so my mentor and I decided holding off on switching her would be in her best interest. Well she is doing better emotionally it seems since adding 2 new girls to the family, but she is still on kibble (ZuPreem). It is really frustrating to me bc I have noticed the others, who are all on raw, will still sneak her kibble during the day (bc I feed them morning and night). I just do not want any bad habits starting, but I also don't want to keep them separated bc I know she enjoys everyone's company and I don't want her to think she is being punished. So... I would like to at least try some eith high quality kibble or preferably freeze dried raw or commericial idk. I think something similar to kibble would be better to start with. I just want to know where I could get it and how it works out. I was looking at Wysong, but OMG those prices are ridicuous! Unless I am just looking at something wrong, but for one it is $16 for a 7.5 oz bag! I mean how long does that last?? It just seems ridiculous! Anyway I would just like some suggestions bc I want the kibble out of the house so at least if the others sneak it, it is healthier. I just don't know what to do with Badger and I really need help!!

[Jackie]

Sorry to hear your little Badger is having such a hard time.

As for freeze-dried, my girls love the stuff. They prefer it dry, but I usually feed it wet so it doesn't dehydrate them. Wysong really is that expensive (unless I'm reading it wrong as well). I feed Stella & Chewy's (it's around $22-30 a lb, comes with 32 patties). I know Casey's Hidden Pantry carries it for relavtively cheap. Another good brand is AFS, which is usually a bit cheaper. Freeze dried goes quick in my house. They can eat up to 3 patties a day. I think Jennifer had some success with Wysong's Epigen starch free kibble (I believe they sent me an email yesterday with new flavors, venison and I think a fish one). I believe the epigen has a really low fat content, so you'd have to supplement that.

Here's Jennifer's post on Epigen
holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gen&action=print&thread=5370


The freeze dried is great because you can leave it in the cage all day. I've had great success with it and ferrets seem to really take to it easy.

Good luck with your little fur-girl!

[mjohn143]

Ok, so what kind do you get exactly? Do u have a link? I just wanna brose around bc I really cant afford that wising brand.

[Jackie]

Here's the link to Casey's pantry.

www.caseyshiddenpantry.com/food.html

I feed Stella and Chewys chicken, duck duck goose, and lamb. They don't really like lamb, but they love chicken and duck. She also has a sample pack with Wysong, Stella and chewys, AFS, and Ziwipeak so you can see how she likes each.

[sherrylynne]

Don't forget- rehydrated, there's actually a decent amount in there And, it might just be the way to get her going on the raw again. Mixing in a bit with her kibbles, dry, then slowly adding moisture to it, til it's a mush.
Or, getting her used to it, and using that as a base to mix pureed raw into.

[mustelidmusk]

I actually recommend people switch their ferrets to freeze dried raw rather than using the soup-switch method. I find that most ferrets switch to meat faster using a freeze-dried raw diet than a soup transition. It's also less stressful and easier on digestion in most cases I've worked with (But I did tend to get the stubborn and the IBD ferts for switching when I had time to mentor in the early days. )

Here are some tricks:

start with kibble and spinkle a LITTLE bit of finely crumbled freeze-dried raw into the kibble. If they are picking out the kibble, do the following:
1. lightly crush the kibble to make the kibble pieces smaller.
This will make it more difficult for the brats to pick out the kibble.

2. slowly increase the amount of crumbled freeze-dried that's added to the kibble, and gradualy increase the size of the crumbles untill their are bits of freeze-dried that are about the same size as the kibble.

3. If you encounter resistence, make your ferrets' meal a couple of days in advance (storing both the kibble and the freeze-dried TOGETHR in a zip-lock bag or tightly covered container> this will make it more difficult for the ferrets to tell the difference between the kibble and the freeze-dried raw.

Once the ferrets are on all freeze-dried raw, you can begin to add a very small amount of water to the freeze-dried raw.

You can also begin to a SMALL amount of ground fresh raw meat to a SMALLER than normal meal. During the day, leave out a SMALL amount of freeze-dried raw (snacking only).
AT night, add some of the ground meat so a smaller meal again.
leave out some freeze-dried snacks. You can increase the amount of water to make it to seem like fresh meat (don't make soup since you'll have to work back to removing water later.)

Gradually increase the size of the meals using raw fresh meat only. Also reduce the size of the snacks until they are eliminated during the evening.

Remember, most ferts are hungriest in the morning, so feeding that smaller meal at night and eliminating the nighttime snacks will prep them for a larger meal in the morning when they will tend to be less picky as well.

One thing to remember - do NOT buy the Nature's Variety freeze-dried raw. It contains large/whole pumkin seeds with shell (dangerous/blocakage potential) for ferrets. It's weird because th Nature's Variety Frozen raw does not have this problem.

-jennifer

[mjohn143]

Thank you for all that info!

Jennifer, since you have so much experience w freeze-dried, is there a certain one that you would recommend?

[mjohn143]

to add, i know what you mean about having to work backwards to remove water. megaweasel will not eat just meat chunks without a fight, it has to be chunky soup, bc we used soup method to switch him, so maybe this will help him too. although i dont really want him to go back to kibble at all... idk do you have suggestions for ones that like the soup consistency? i mean he eats chunks, but only when its watery too. he wont just eat a chicken wing.

[sherrylynne]

The kind Jennifer had recommended to me with my switch was Wysong's Archetypal 1 Ferret. Yes, she was my mentor because of my VERY stubborn Boris

[mustelidmusk]

Boris was my favorite switch.....he was sooooo good at torturing his mommy I always looked forward to my daily update on Boris' antics ... (Sorry SherryLynne, I know my amusement was at your expense, but Boris was just too funny )

I've been using the Wysong archetypal I for a long time, and I also feed the STella and Chewy's as well. I switched my ids on Wysong since I don't think S & C was invented at the time.

A lot of people like he AFS, which is cheaper. I an pick up the S& C locally, so I don't bother with AFS since it will be more expensive by the time I ship it.

SO, here are some options....

* Wysong Archtypal I - new formula since the beginning of this year. I'll post about the changes in a new thread so more people will find it.
If you get old stock, the food is beef and chicken.
If you get new tick, the food is chiken only.

* Stella And Chewy's - lots of options
Beef
Chicken
Lamb
Duck/goose
The benefit of the stella & chewy's for switching is that it's SUPER EASY to switch from freeze dried to frozen raw since you can start your kids on their freeze-dried and then start mixing some of the freeze dried with the S & C frozen food, with is the SAME recipe as the freeze-dried.

Most people have found it easier to introduce different types of meat and develop flexibility with acceptance of new meats using freeze-dried foods. I.e., to get their ferrets to eat lamb, start with a little S&C freeze-dried lamb crumbled in with fresh chicken. At the same time, mix some freeze-dried lamb in with freeze-dried chicken. As always, slowly increase the lamb content.

There are also freeze-dried organ meats that are more readily accepted than the fresh organs. the same approach can be used to introduce the organ meats.

The other advantage of starting with freeze-dried raw is that it has less bacteria, and it produces better poops than fresh raw.

Of course, it's always good to get your ferrets eating soup in addition to all this other stuff since you want to get your ferrets to be flexible eaters. Soup is used as a treat, and I do not feed a bunch of it - just a little.

If you think about trying to back water content out of soup, you end up with a cold, sticky mush of wet kibble - BLAH. That stuff is NASTY!!!

The only drawback to freeze-dried for switching is the cost.
But the range of flexibility with freeze-dried is really good for picky brats and brats with sensitive tummies. A lot of people think the freeze-drie will be more expensive, but when they start throwing out meat on a daily basis, they find it's NOT the expensive way to go if you have Picky babies.

-jennifer

[miamiferret2]

My ferret has been eating wysong freeze dried since I brought him home as a kit. But I had to make it soupy at first. Now he eats soupies once a day and I leave a mix of dry Stella and chewies and wysong arch 1. From Stella and chewies I mix a variety of meat chunks in his bowl (dandy lamb, duck/goose, beef). Day two of trying to get him to eat raw minced chicken. So far it is not happening!
I was leaving out grain free kibble but he would never eat it so I stopped giving it to him recently. The freeze dried is expensive but lasts a long time and doesn't go bad quickly. You can leave it out all day.

[mjohn143]

Thanks for the info, I will try some stuff out and see how it goes.

Badger and Boris seem like they would make a good pair...the only difference is Badger isn't funny... I mean she is just dramatic and 'poor pitiful me!'. I sure love my little lady, but I wish she would know what is best for her!

[miamiferret2]

If she remains stubborn and won't give up kibble, these are brands that I think are the best:
Orijen cat/kitten (it is grain free and probably the best kibble cat food out there read their "white paper" on the orijen site).
Evo ferret or cat formula (natura products was recently purchased by procter and gamble so watch the ingredients list), petcurean go! (grain-free chicken turkey and duck formula). There is also wellness core (comparable to evo but more fishy) , serengheti cat from timberwolf organics, and some people swear by blue buffalo wilderness grain free for cats. I use all of the above minus blue wilderness. Those little blue kibble pieces made me nervous. I give him a kibble soup (gruel) as a treat once a day. I mix the wellness core, serengheti cat, evo, orijen, and petcurean go kibbles in equal parts in a zip lock.(My mom has 8 cats so I usually split whatever kibble I have with her since I'm using so little of each bc he eats freeze dried raw). I put some of the kibble mix in a tiny tupperware container and I put water in it. When the kibble is mushy, I scoop it into a bowl and mash it up good w/ back of a spoon until a puree. Then I add warm water until it is like a really thick gravy. Then I add liquid taurine and 4-5 drops of linatone. I also make him a soupies out of freeze dried raw but the kibble soupies is his favorite. I guess everyone has their own soupies recipe. I have revived many a ferret with that kibble soup! Lol.
And if you at least soften the kibble with water then her teeth won't be damaged from the kibble. But I do rec that you brush her teeth a few times a week.

[weloveourweasels]

If I could afford to feed only freeze dried then I would buy a variety of products from AFS and Stella and Chewys. Since Ferrets need lots of variety you can't buy say for example AFS Beef Niblets and only feed them that all the time. AFS only makes product in chicken or beef (unfortunately) so you would need to add it something from somewhere else as well. For example duck duck goose and or lamb from stella and chewys. As long as you rotate feeding them 3 different protein sources they will be good. They more the better of course because each type of animal has different nutrients.

Best prices for AFS are at Caseys Hidden Pantry that I know of. www.caseyshiddenpantry.com/

I tend to shop around for the stella and chewys because there is always a good deal going on somewhere. I just type in the brand and flavor into google then hit the shopping tab and sort from cheapest to highest price then visit the web site and see if it is a good deal with shipping.

I contemplating giving mine back a little bit of kibbles for the ease of it. I like way the petcurean go! grain-free chicken turkey and duck formula sounds but I decided as long as freeze dried exists there is no reason for me to ever feed my babies kibbles again.