sherik
Going Natural
Posts: 105
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Post by sherik on Jan 3, 2011 0:42:46 GMT -5
When I first started owning ferrets...... years and years ago, there was no ferret distemper and my guys all got the canine distemper every year. Never had one reaction to it. I always thought that ferrets can catch canine distemper and not feline distemper??
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Post by Jackie on Jan 3, 2011 0:50:18 GMT -5
Yes, ferrets are supposedly not susceptible to feline distemper. Some ferrets don't have reactions to vaccines. My vet also gives benadryl before a vaccination, to reduce the chances of a bad reaction.
There is no ferret distemper, just a vaccine formulated for for ferrets that provides immunity to canine distemper.
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Post by Heather on Jan 3, 2011 0:51:49 GMT -5
It is canine distemper we're discussing. Ferrets cannot get feline distemper.
**I know that you can do titers for dogs and cats...can you do them for ferrets too? And if so are they as expensive as the ones for dogs and cats? If so you can have titers done and know exactly what your ferrets immunity to distemper and then can decide whether or not to vaccinate if their immunity is low.**
Yes, you can. You can also participate in Dr Ruth's distemper titer study. I believe it's Mungo's Distemper study...(it's his name and then the study, she lost him to a reaction....you know it's bad when a vet can't even save her own ferret...think about it) My understanding that if your vet willingly participates in this study the costs are defrayed. Yes, titers are expensive, you've got to be doing this for more than cost deferments because titers are really expensive.
ciao
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Post by Jackie on Jan 3, 2011 1:03:54 GMT -5
Canine distemper can definitely be tracked into the house if you came into contact with it. If you step in infected bodily fluids and then walk inside, it's in your house. Water can also become contaminated with the virus.
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Post by Jackie on Jan 3, 2011 1:07:47 GMT -5
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Post by rarnold18 on Jan 3, 2011 1:11:55 GMT -5
I know it costs about $80 per dog at my vet, I've never done the cats titers as they are strictly indoors. I'll have to call around to see how much the titers are for ferrets. Not really looking for help with the costs, but a safer way to keep the fuzz safe...
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Post by rmzsuzuki89 on Jan 3, 2011 22:22:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies everyone. Giving me some good food for thought.
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Post by Jackie on Jan 4, 2011 9:15:17 GMT -5
Here's some info on the cost of titers in 2009 (could be different now and probably varies with areas) ferrethealth.org/archive/FHL9127It states it will be about $40 if sent to Cornell (which is where samples should be sent for the study). It also talks about appropriate titer values and their corresponding protection.
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Post by mjohn143 on Jan 4, 2011 13:56:01 GMT -5
This may sound dumb, and I think I get the idea from reading what everyone is saying, but what exactly is a titer?
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Post by Heather on Jan 4, 2011 14:35:30 GMT -5
Ok, lets try this again....crap there are times when I wonder how intellegent cyberspace is...which seems to me where a lot of my emails go No, its not a stupid question: **If you make an antibody to a foreign substance you have become "sensitized" to that substance. The "titer" of an antibody is a way of expressing the concentration of the antibody in your blood. The titer of an antibody is related to the number of times you can dilute a sample of blood and still detect the antibody.** The problem lies in that the powers that be cannot decide what the numbers actually mean. The theory is that if it is a high number then you will be protected from the pathogen...but what is the right number. According to those that study titers, the only thing that is shows is wether the body has actually raised an attack on the virus recently. So, if you have a high number the body has recently come into contact with that virus and has had to raise an immune response. The higher the number the more serious the attack on the immune system. But...what about a low number. According to the papers that I've studied, it only means that the body has not had to respond to that virus. Will it? That's the question...according to viral studies...yes. So if there is a trace titre the body will recognise the pathogen and mount an attack. It's all about that, getting a body to recognise the pathogen. The theory of vaccines is that by repeating the challenge the body will continue to recognise the threat. The problem, it becomes a system overload, and the body has seen this virus so many times it doesn't bother to even try. Mithrandir (my wolfhound) comes from vaccine free parents, but the grandsire was vaccinated for rabies and the great grandsire and up ran full vaccine loads. The granddam was vaccine free and the great granddam running full vaccine load (because she was imported). His titres came back as positive for parvo (no need to vaccinate), moderately positive for distemper (not to bother as he was now and adult and has a passive response), and trace for rabies (I may actually get him vaccinated for that as he's now going to be 3yrs old fully grown but I haven't come to that conclusion yet) Consider this Mithrandir has never been vaccinated. I don't know if that helped at all or not The problem is trying to simplifying something that is really rather complex and is often not understood even by those that use it. This offers a visual explanation www.obfocus.com/dictionary/titer.htmciao
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Post by mjohn143 on Jan 4, 2011 14:55:58 GMT -5
Still all so confusing, but yes it did help and I appreciate it! I love Mithranir btw, I am quite the LOTR fan .
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jan 4, 2011 15:18:38 GMT -5
a vets office is probably not going to tell you about distemper outbreaks. i saw a woman with a dog that had distemper at the vets office a few years ago. her dog was twitching and shaking, basically convulsing and a man just happened to ask her what was wrong with her dog... she said "distemper" and about 15 people and their pets literally cleared the waiting room. i worry because i never see people in the examination or waiting rooms cleaning with bleach and scrubbing the floor... they go in with a flimsy mop, swish swish, wipe up the pee and that's that.
which distemper vaccine was discontinued? what maker? my vet just ordered the purvax ferret distemper vaccines from merial a few weeks ago. he would not give my ferret a dog vaccine. he knows me VERY well and he would have discussed this with me prior to giving the vaccines. in florida we have alot of foxes, racoons, possums ,etc. alot of distemper in wildlife here. foxes are always running around in my neighborhood. they are notorious for carrying distemper. if you step on fox urine in the yard and bring it in your shoes into the house your animal can get distemper. it can happen.
i guess i have been very lucky. we have kept ferrets for many years. we started vaccinating them in the early 1990's. we have had them all vaccinated against distemper every year for basically all of their lives. only when they are sick or old do i stop getting the vaccines. in all these years, we have only had two ferrets have a reaction and it was very very mild. they were basically a little tired the first day and that was it. they both lived to a ripe old age. so (knock wood) i haven't had a bad experience with any distemper or rabies vaccines. i recall several years back there was a ferret vaccine that my vet did not want to use because he said that he had seen more reactions (reported by his colleagues) to that particular vaccine brand than any other. it was actually a very popular ferret vaccine that was being used. can't remember the name now. anyway, i trust his judgment. like i said before, for me the worse part about not having them vaccinated would be the vet's office! when you go to the vets office you don't even know if the room was cleaned properly. when they take your ferret to the back for an x ray you don't know whether there was a dog that was laid on the table previously for an x-ray, urinated all over the table, etc. had distemper--and you don't know that the vet tech properly cleaned that area. if they stop making the vaccines, then i guess i can quarantine my ferrets, keep them indoors and never take them outside. but i can't avoid emergency trips to the vet. i am not completely defending the vaccines. i would rather NOT do it. but what alternatives do i have? (alternatives that work). there are always risks. I had a huge tumor that i had to have operated/removed. the doctor told me that the surgery was risky and that i could die or that i could have a reaction to the anesthesia. it sucked. but what was the alternative? leave the tumor in there? i think that our dog has had mild reactions to vaccines. i say "i think" because it could all just be me overreacting. but i'm not going to stop giving him the vaccines because the distemper is far worse. every single medication out there has possible side effects. listen to the drug commercials on t.v. "this medication is for athletes foot but some side effects may include nausea, vomiting, anaphylactic shock, heart failure, kidney failure, internal bleeding, ..." Sometimes the side effects are worse than what you had to begin with. deslorelin is a chemical also. I read somewhere that it basically shuts down the pituitary gland? must be some good potent stuff to do that. i'm sure, like any medications, it can and has caused some reactions /side effects in the long term. but i'm not going to stop using those either. you know, i'm not knocking any of you and if you are against vaccinating, i respect that. but i think that a good and effective alternative needs to be found and there is none. unfortunately, i don't think that ferrets are considered big business for these drug companies. they will not go out of their way to fix the glitch.
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Post by Jackie on Jan 4, 2011 15:27:28 GMT -5
Titers also don't take into account cell mediate immunity. Cells like natural killer cells, Macrophages, and T lymphocytes also respond to an antigen. They are not detected. So a low titer doesn't mean low protection, because there are other lines of defense that help fight the virus. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell-mediated_immunity?wasRedirected=true
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