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Giardia
Dec 28, 2010 21:07:46 GMT -5
Post by acodlin on Dec 28, 2010 21:07:46 GMT -5
Anyone had any experience treating Giardia? Naobi's stool sample came back.. positive for giardia *sigh* he wants to treat all of the ferrets for it. I missed his call and only got a voice mail so I'm not sure what he wants to use, but from what I see on the internet the main medication is very toxic, only kills the cysts and is only 60-70% effective.
I'm going to go to my cat/dog vet and get medication to treat them all too, I have a feeling they got it from the cats.. I have one who was a stray and had giardia before, and from what I read they can have it and not show symptoms. Plus they all share a water bowl when the ferrets are out in the rest of the house.. ugh.. the dogs are always trying to eat out of the cat box or any stray ferret poos. I can see it now, they all have it! >,<
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Giardia
Dec 28, 2010 21:11:26 GMT -5
Post by sunnyberra on Dec 28, 2010 21:11:26 GMT -5
Our dogs and cats have gotten it before - usually from foregoing their nice, clean bowls of water and drinking from yucky stagnant puddles. We always used the medication the vets gave us, and (since it's been awhile) I can't for the life of me remember what it was.
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Giardia
Dec 28, 2010 21:51:07 GMT -5
Post by miamiferret2 on Dec 28, 2010 21:51:07 GMT -5
Use Kocci Free. It is good for giardia, coccida and a few other things. I bought it online from holisticlivestock.com. it works. Be sure to follow the instructions precisely. Works on dogs and cats too.
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Giardia
Dec 28, 2010 22:01:01 GMT -5
Post by rarnold18 on Dec 28, 2010 22:01:01 GMT -5
Metronidazole (flagel) is what we've used to treat Giardia. Your going to have to disinfect all your water and food bowls and litter boxes, keep them scooped, pick up the dogs poo outside if you think they have it. I would also go as far as disinfecting your cages. You and your family can get it too so make sure that proper handwashing is kept up with. It can be caught by comming incontact with infected poo, soil, water, or food... I've never treated ferrets for it but have treated dogs. Actually my husband is on Metronidazole and Cipro right now for a bout of ascending cholangitus....
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Giardia
Dec 28, 2010 22:11:04 GMT -5
Post by acodlin on Dec 28, 2010 22:11:04 GMT -5
This is going to be impossible lol 14 ferrets 4 cats 3 dogs
I do bleach water bowls/litter boxes/ cage trays almost daily anyway.. but its impossible with as many ferrets as I have to keep every spot bleached. Not everything they sleep on is washable either (ferret condo, huge cat cube) It's snowing outside so it'll be really hard to find all dog poop. Bleh... just.. bleh.. lol
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Post by rarnold18 on Jan 3, 2011 0:43:52 GMT -5
Checking in to see how Naobi is feeling and if anyone else has shown any signs of Giardia... hoping all is well!
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 3, 2011 0:57:42 GMT -5
I have LOTS of experience with ferret giardia Sometimes panacur can help, but we've always had to resort to metronidozole for the strain we have here - which comes from our TAP WATER. Most tap water has a little giardia in it periodically. Boulder county gets quite a bit - enough to bother small animals such as ferrets. I will post more later since I need to get to sleep at a reasonable hour (fighting a sinus infection ) -jennifer
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Post by rarnold18 on Jan 3, 2011 1:01:17 GMT -5
I've heard that Neti Pots and other nasal rinse type things are really good for helping with sinus issues, though I've never tried it, I'm a bit weird about my nose and eyes, can't handle things comming near them....(can't even use nasal sprays or contacts...yes I'm weird!)
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Giardia
Jan 3, 2011 13:24:18 GMT -5
Post by acodlin on Jan 3, 2011 13:24:18 GMT -5
I go today to take Dean in, I'm 99.9% sure he has adrenal disease. So while I'm there the vet is going to give me Panacur for them and if that doesnt work he said we would move up to the next med. I'm also going to the cat/dog vet today to ask for some for those guys and everyone is getting treated and everything bleached or washed.. and apparently a bath on day 3? ugh bathing cats is NOT fun!
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Giardia
Jan 3, 2011 14:27:53 GMT -5
Post by rarnold18 on Jan 3, 2011 14:27:53 GMT -5
I agree with you, bathing cats is no fun!!! I have one, Cleo, that is a sweet closet kitty but put her near water and her name and personality changes to "CLAWS"! I've never bathed the animals on day three of treatment, I was never told that by our vets, but then again every vet is different and has different protocol that they follow.
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Giardia
Jan 3, 2011 19:54:27 GMT -5
Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 3, 2011 19:54:27 GMT -5
Giardia is weird because most animals/people have a touch of it. The immune system usually keeps in under control. It will flare up and grow out of control under the following circumstances: 1. exposure to high amounts of giardia (like when tap water contains a surge of more giardia than yor immune system can handle - or the cat gets a big dose when outside - drinking from a stream, getting it from another cat, etc.) 2. When the immune system is under stress. 3. Both 1 and 2 above.
It's virtually impossible to get rid of all giardia without killing the host.
Giardia can take a while to get under control since it can be swapped between animals. Also Antibiotics can knock down the population of giardia, but if the immune system is not dealing with the giardia, it may flare up again within a week or so.
Once all animals get the giardia under control, periodic flare-ups are always possible. I have know people who have had dogs that have been trouble by giardia for over 6 months before the dog's system could suppress the infection.
Some strains of giardia are resistant to some meds., which makes treatment even more annoying.
Grapefruit seed extract can be used to control giardia. It's non toxic, but it is so strong that, when used full strength, it can burn skin.
The metronidozole was not working on my first two ferrets I had years ago. We tried the GSE along with the metronidazole. With the GSE, we were finally able to knock the giardia hard enough so the ferrets' immune systems could keep it under contro most of the time The GSE is VERY strong tasting, and ferrets hate it even worse than the metronidazole. It's very difficult to give the GSE, so please let me know if you would like some info on using this with ferrets. The dosing must be extremely small, and the mouths must be flushed after they take themeds with the GSE. It's a serious pain to use, but if treatments are not working,it can definitely help with giardia.
-jennifer
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Giardia
Jan 4, 2011 12:50:32 GMT -5
Post by acodlin on Jan 4, 2011 12:50:32 GMT -5
What does the grapefruit seed extract do exactly? We are going to retest everyone in 30 days to see if there is any Giardia left. I'm hoping there isnt =/ my guys sure are not liking this panacur, lots of spitting and gagging!
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Giardia
Jan 4, 2011 15:25:46 GMT -5
Post by miamiferret2 on Jan 4, 2011 15:25:46 GMT -5
i don't know what the grapefruit seed extract does. i am pretty sure that the Kocci Free has grapefruit seed extract in it. it really did work. i got a bottle from holisticlivestock.com. i think one of my mom's cats got giardia from drinking the water out of the christmas tree. my mom tried medications that the vet prescribed. they did not really work. it came back. so she tried the kocci free and it worked.
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Giardia
Jan 4, 2011 23:31:29 GMT -5
Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 4, 2011 23:31:29 GMT -5
Grapefruit seed extract is an antibiotic, a anti-yeast, anti-fungal. It's kind of weird because my holistic vet says that it does not kill giardia. HOWEVER, it definitely reduced the giardia per field under the microscope. And I know people who have used it with really good results as well. Even though the GSE may not kill giardia in a laboratory test in a test tube, it DOES make a difference in the gut. Please be aware that giardia is NORMAL in the intestinal tract. And, once you get giardia, you can NEVER get rid of 100% of the organism. Your kids' immune systems will learn to keep the giardia in check once the meds. get rid of most of it. Two things: I looked at the KocciFree, which does contain GSE. (quite a bit of it). However, I'm concerned with some of the ingredients for ferret. The Pao d'arco can be pretty toxic to the kidneys and liver, and the real problem is that the it's a very unregulated substance that little is known about. How much is too much? with uncontrolled substances, the same dose in one brand (or even in the same brand, different lot) may be fine while a different brand or batch may be too much/toxic. Ferrets are so small, and I don't feel comfortable trying something new on ferrets. The brand of GSE I use is Citricidal: www.nutriteam.com/citricidal.htmI also know that berbercap works on giardia. I have never tried it on ferts. Thorne Research makes a berbercap product. I LOVE Thorne Reseach Products because they are always tested for potency/purity in their lab. They are also tested by external labs and are certified by the only country that regulates herbal/alternative meds - Australia. The thing about the berbercap is that its a single herb rather than a wild concoction with all this uncontrolled stuff stuff in it. I would ask your vet about the berbercap. If the Panacur has ALMOST wiped out the giardia good enough, your vet may recommend berbercap over metronidazole. Warning: Thorne products are not cheap. BUT, with the Berbercap, you'll have something that can be used if your kids ever get giardia flare-ups. Any traditional meds will expire quickly. When my kids got giardia flare-ups, my traditional vet recommended the GSE. It always took care of the problem quickly. I got to the point where I recognized "giardia poops" and could avoid vet trips. Here is the link to Berberap: www.healthdesigns.com/thorne-research-berbercap-60-capsules.htmlbe sure to scroll down to read about it. Also, Berbercap may be easier to give than GSE. However, the GSE has ben used on ferrets at the same time as giving metrodnidazole with no side effects. I think my first 2 boys would have literally died without it since the metronidazole was not working well enough and panacur did not work at all. Don't panic, we have a very med-resistant strain around here and my boys had very, very weak immune systems and health problems sine birth. Very sad cases, but I still think of them daily. -jennifer
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