AngelFish's Switching Thread/Heather

[Heather]

Name: Lourdes
HF Forum Username: AngelFish

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? From this forum mainly. I've had ferrets in the past but I was doing research on appropriate foods to refresh my memory when I stumbled onto this forum.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I want to switch them fully to a raw diet. I would like to feed whole frozen prey, either primarily or as a supplement, whichever I can get them to eat. Failing a whole prey diet, I want them to at least be eating a raw carnivore diet.


3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I have MS and have had to stop working as of 6 months ago. During that time I have discovered that human processed foods are junk and do very little for our health. I switched my husband and my food to whole, mainly unprocessed, organic, meats, vegetables and some grain. In that time we lost weight, I had more energy (if you know MS, that's just amazing), my blood sugars were under control again (which became an issue due to steroid treatments), and we felt better. During that time I also started looking more closely at the ingredients in our dog and cats' food and switched them to meat based foods. The least I can do is offer our new furbabies food that is good for them too.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
Absolutely. We're already married, not pregnant, not moving any time soon, and I'm home all day almost every day so I have plenty of time to dedicate to this.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?

Sugar, age about 2-3 years. She's female, spayed. Healthy so far except for a recently discovered penchant for eating cotton. She's currently undergoing a course of antibiotics which she will be done with on 12/28. Weighs 1lb 10oz

Spice, age about 2-3 years. Male, neutered. Healthy as far as the history I know. Weighs 2lb 8oz.

Pita, Age about 3 months. Female, spayed. Healthy, still in the process of getting her initial vaccinations. Weighs 1lb 4oz.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
All 3 are getting a mix of Zupreem and 8-in-1 Ultimate and the adults are getting a small amount of Meow Mix mixed in. The adults also get a couple of drops of ferretone every few days and the kit gets a drop on occasion (mostly to convince that she likes it)

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
No, this will be my and their first attempt at natural. Spice's previous owner did say she offered him a raw egg once but he wasn't interested. No idea when that was.


8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
I had a business of 3 ferrets over 10 years ago while in high school that I had to give away to a shelter when I went away to college. I've reached the point in my life where I have decent financial resources and support to provide an absolutely awesome life to these little guys and that's what I plan to do.


9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Daily and pretty much all day.


10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
Camera's dead so I'l have to update this part.

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Heather....whoo hoo that's me ) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.



Hi
I'm Heather, and we're going to be working together for the next little while trying to convince your furbaby to change to a healthier diet
I've been feeding a raw/natural diet for a little over 10 yrs. I have a small private rescue/sanctuary, just outside of Toronto, Canada where all ferrets turned into me are switched immediately over to a raw diet that consists of ground raw/whole meats or frankenprey/ and prey diet. At present every ferret eats this full range of diets. I don't keep kibbles in the house. All my furbabies are free roaming and have access to an outdoor play area that they can access at will. At present there are 12 little fuzzbutts who call this their permanent home. They range in ages of about 1 yr to my senior citizen, Dr. Pooka Dooks who is approx. 10 yrs. My most difficult switch was a little senior who was turned in at 9 yrs of age (she by the way has been my biggest raw switch challenge, which had me at times wondering why I was doing this to her) She eventually was completely switched and putting on a beautiful dark black coat, teeth that were nicely cleaned up, and she actually has a lot of fun investigating the house (she used to do nothing but sleep when she first was turned in). She has made me aware that every ferret no matter how old, can get a new lease on life by eating a species appropriate diet. She eventually passed on at 11 yrs of age to complete organ failure....old age.
Raw soupy is my favourite switching tool and one that I've had the most success with.
You can try to get them to eat a raw soup immediately. You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:

8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat)
1/2 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder)
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
Water or broth(use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker)
Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest.

Most ferrets will willingly eat the food once they actually TASTE it, so the only struggle you *should* encounter is them not wanting to taste it. Don't be surprised if your furbabies' initial reaction is to gag, spit and look at you like, what are you trying to poison me with But don't let them get away with it The hardest part is to insist and be consistent. Please also be aware that after years of kibbles they aren't aware that what you're offering them is indeed food. Once they willingly eat from your finger and spoon, work to try and get them eating this out of a dish or plate.

Each time you make your soupy, use a little less water to make it thicker/chunkier. Replace soup with fresh soup every 4-6 hours. You can make a large batch if you like and freeze into ice cubes or cupcake trays. Then you just thaw a portion and serve. OR you can put a frozen "cube" into their bowl and let it slowly thaw.

This is a good way to slowly ease them into wet foods. I use this method to switch all my furbabies and I've personally switched approximately 30 ferrets of my own in the last few years.
I will let you read through and if you have any questions please ask.
Good luck
ciao

[angelfish]

Sounds like you have progress
You can also provide the bone with some meat that was left to them too.
Basically,....8oz of meat to 1/2 tsp of powdered egg shell, because you may have more organ meat than necessary the amount you used probably is fine. If your little ones poops are loose and tarry don't worry...it's the liver and you may have added too much this first time. It's not a big deal. I'm glad that your little ones took to it so well. My guys are not big with frozen soupy or even cold. They like it at room temp Again, not a big deal your little ones will let you know I would leave them to get accustomed to the taste of chicken for a few days. Try offering them some small chunks of meat in their soupy or even on the side to see if they will delve in and be a bit more adventuresome .
Many ferrets can tolerate meat and kibble at around the same time. I don't feed it together because the tummy upsets that might happen. Remove their kibbles about an hour before feeding their raw and you should be fine. I'm inclined to agree with you about taking their kibble away entirely. Be a bit more certain before removing it for longer periods or all together.
You may want to check the mentoring section...you have a mentor
ciao

Ha! I totally didn't know this thread was here!

The organ meat is a pet/dog mix I get from a local farmer who raises grass fed cattle, goat, sheep, chicken, etc. I was hoping to use his stuff but it doesn't come in a way that I can figure out what it is. Maybe I should just make my batches with more meat? I could have included the whole chicken this time. Hehe, we always have a few pastured chickens frozen in the fridge. Would that work? Or do you think I should pick up organ meat at the store where I can measure things out?

I was planning on feeding the soup a made for a few more days before I introduced bigger pieces of meat. Tonight's servings had a chunky bit that hasn't blended completely and nobody wanted to eat it, they just licked it clean.

During play time I've been randomly picking them up and offering a spoon with soup. They both seem enthusiastic to eat from the spoon while I'm holding them but not from the bowl. In fact, they kinda act like they don't want to get their whiskers dirty!

They're usually out for about an hour in the morning and at least that or more in the evening so I'll remove their kibble an hour or so before playtime. That should give them plenty of time between any kibble and the soupie. (That's assuming Spice doesn't make kibble appear, which he has a habit of doing.)

How much is in an ice cube? About 2 tablespoons or so? Spice and Pita split 1 cube worth during playtime and each ate about half of one after playtime. I probably should have measured the ounces, but I forgot. I'll do that tomorrow. How many ounces should they be eating? Also how long can I safely leave the soupie in their cage for? 4-6 hours with it being thawed out first? I've been giving it about 15-30 minutes and then putting it back in the fridge for one more feeding.

Gosh! So many questions! Sorry

Oh yeah. I do have one more girl that has only eaten Marshall's and various cat foods. She's currently on Meow Mix because that's all she will eat. Since she just got over an obstruction and has been rather listless, I don't want to stress her with raw until she's feeling a little better. New home, new ferbuddy, new food might all be too much for her right now. Poor thing hasn't dooked since the first night we let her out. I worry that she's depressed and misses her old owner. It doesn't help that she suddenly has all sorts of rules to follow. She wasn't litter trained and she nips socks/toes something fierce. She's getting better at those but I'm sure that's yet another stress on her.

[Heather]

Dec 29, 2010 1:44:25 GMT -5 angelfish said:

Sounds like you have progress
/i]

Ha! I totally didn't know this thread was here!

The organ meat is a pet/dog mix I get from a local farmer who raises grass fed cattle, goat, sheep, chicken, etc. I was hoping to use his stuff but it doesn't come in a way that I can figure out what it is. Maybe I should just make my batches with more meat? I could have included the whole chicken this time. Hehe, we always have a few pastured chickens frozen in the fridge. Would that work? Or do you think I should pick up organ meat at the store where I can measure things out?

##No....that's fine. What goes into his organ mixture? His mix is probably better quality than anything you can get at a grocers. Some people use one day out of the week to feed their organ meats. Considering your source, this might work for you. I feed it in small amounts throughout the week, only because I have spoiled brats and some won't eat liver . It also prevents that one day of sloppy, loose, black stools that has a tendency to happen when the fuzzs only eat organ meat (it doesn't hurt them, it's just devil to clean it off the floor :. They don't need that much about an oz or two (the size of half a chicken liver??) I feed a bit heavy on hearts but you can't OD on taurine You can feed too much liver.

I was planning on feeding the soup a made for a few more days before I introduced bigger pieces of meat. Tonight's servings had a chunky bit that hasn't blended completely and nobody wanted to eat it, they just licked it clean.

## Go for it. If you think they need longer smooth soupy time then take it. Some are more cautious, less happy with change. You know your fuzzes. If you move too fast, they will go on strike and it usually means you have to backtrack, so the time line is yours (at least for the most part )

During play time I've been randomly picking them up and offering a spoon with soup. They both seem enthusiastic to eat from the spoon while I'm holding them but not from the bowl. In fact, they kinda act like they don't want to get their whiskers dirty!

##Typical I found that sitting them on my lap at the table or on the floor was often a simple way to work it. You then just keep moving the spoon closer and closer to the bowl, until the spoon is then sitting in the bowl. Then they get the idea that they're supposed to be eating out of the bowl.....ya...dirty whiskers not a ferret's forte unless it's something really messy you can have fun in

They're usually out for about an hour in the morning and at least that or more in the evening so I'll remove their kibble an hour or so before playtime. That should give them plenty of time between any kibble and the soupie. (That's assuming Spice doesn't make kibble appear, which he has a habit of doing.)

How much is in an ice cube? About 2 tablespoons or so? ## depends on the size of the cube, I"ve got 3 different sized ice cube trays ## Spice and Pita split 1 cube worth during playtime and each ate about half of one after playtime. I probably should have measured the ounces, but I forgot. I'll do that tomorrow.
How many ounces should they be eating? ## hmmm. Sherrylynne posted that somewhere...here it is holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gen&action=display&thread=4764
Also how long can I safely leave the soupie in their cage for? 4-6 hours with it being thawed out first? I've been giving it about 15-30 minutes and then putting it back in the fridge for one more feeding.
##2 to 4 hrs but your little ones won't eat it if it's off. I know hard to tell when you're first starting out but it's true. If they're really not into it and you know you've left it out for a time, then pitch it. Ferret and cats won't eat tainted meat....they will eat their own created jerky Don't quite get that one but hey you don't argue with nature


Gosh! So many questions! Sorry
##Don't sweat it. I would far rather have tons of questions than you sitting there not getting your little ones to switch or worse not feeding them correctly and getting frustrated for a few unanswered questions. That's what this whole process is about .

Oh yeah. I do have one more girl that has only eaten Marshall's and various cat foods. She's currently on Meow Mix because that's all she will eat. Since she just got over an obstruction and has been rather listless, I don't want to stress her with raw until she's feeling a little better. New home, new ferbuddy, new food might all be too much for her right now. Poor thing hasn't dooked since the first night we let her out. I worry that she's depressed and misses her old owner. It doesn't help that she suddenly has all sorts of rules to follow. She wasn't litter trained and she nips socks/toes something fierce. She's getting better at those but I'm sure that's yet another stress on her
##I've been reading about the little one, poor wee thing. You might try switching her but do it softly. Do it as a snuggle time, offer the food on her nose but while you're snuggling her. Watch your fingers, if she's stressed she might bite, but it's a way to bond too and it might just be what she needs. Sometimes it's this type of close contact that helps them get through the whole stress of new home, new ferts, new rules, new momma. Little Mischief and Loki (both ferts suffered terrible change stress) both loved their special switching times. They wouldn't eat raw out of the bowl but they would sit on my lap, snuggle in their special blanky and eat tons. I usually rubbed a bit of rescue remedy on each ear about 10 min before I would try and feed them.

Good luck and keep me posted as to your progress and please ask any questions that you may have as well
ciao

[angelfish]

I weighed my cubes this morning. They're each about .75 ounces. Pita, my baby, had 2 during and after playtime - so about 1.5 ounces and finished off Spice's bowl when she snuck into their cage.

Spice had, I'd say, about 1 - 1.25 ounces total today.

They seem to be ok eating it directly from the bowl when I put them back in after play time. I think they just like being held and spoon fed when they're out though.

Sugar is doing *much* better today. She voluntarily came out to explore today and spent almost an hour wandering chewing and even playing!! with the Pita. She spent a lot of time grooming and it turns out she likes to chase humans. She still wants to nip my feet though. Well any feet really. Our dog was in the play room with them and she chased the dog, Rhea, (her little feet were a blur )around until I finally put Rhea up on a chair. Thank goodness the dog is small.

She wasn't nearly as nip happy with the Pita and there were even moments of sniffing each other and jumping on each other. She's obviously feeling much better so I'm hoping this trend continues. After playtime she cuddled in my lap for a couple hours while she groomed herself and semi-dozed while I stroked her head. She still has rescue remedy in her water bottle and a put a fresh dose in her water bowl. If she's still doing as well tonight, I hope to discontinue it.

If I can establish an after playtime cuddle period with her, I'm going to try and use that time to introduce her to raw.

The farmer's mix has chicken liver/heart. I thought I was be able to see the individual pieces but I think they either mush it or it gets mushed when they shove it into the package. I can measure out 1/2 an ounce of the mixture and add it to their food, maybe twice a week. I'm afraid that they may not get enough liver if I only do it once a week since I can't see what's in it. But then again, I don't want to give them too much liver either.

I noticed that Pita is pooping much less. It's lighter in color and slightly mush but still formed. Spice did have one darker stool but I'm seeing a few that are lighter in color with a birdseed like consistency. Is it possibly he has IBD? Or maybe the combination kibble and raw is not sitting well with him?

I'm looking at the farmer's list of available meats now. He also has chicken backs, feet, ground chicken backs and smoked chicken patties available in his pet food section. Do any of those sound promising? What about pork, veal, lamb, or goat organs (heart, liver, kidney)? I also have access to all those kinds of meats from him too.

[Heather]

Sounds like your little ones are jumping right into this. This is great. Sounds to me if the stools are really mushy, that you may have to up their ground egg shell. This helps firm up their stools, as will pumpkin. This will get better as they get used to raw, get less liquid in their diet (soupy can make for looser stools). One of the things to remember too, and I just thought about it, is raw poopies are more liquid than kibble poopies. Kibble draws it's moisture from the ferret, the meat actually puts moisture into the ferret, so you're going to see more sloppy poops. They will still be formed or close to being formed but nothing like those massive solid poops that you will get from kibbles. Seedy poops is usually caused by fat not being processed properly. This takes time and getting the balance right. You should see it get less and less as their bodies start making better use of the fats that are being offered. Having them still eating kibble might also be an issue but at the moment nothing can be done about that. One of the things I did with my brats was once they were eating well out of the bowl, was the only time they got kibbles was at night. Eventually, I removed it all together when they consistently were eating very well during the day and maintaining weight.
Sounds like you might have a good source for meats...avoid all smoked meats. There is no restriction on the protein source, beef, poultry, pork, venison, bison...my guys get all that, but don't feed smoked meat. That's not good for them
Great stuff. Keep it up. I will check in with you later
ciao

[angelfish]

Tonight's dinner went very well. I upped the amount I offered them to a little over 2 ounces each. Same deal, too busy playing except when I offer a spoon but once in the cage they happily slurp it from the dish. They ate about half of it.

Since I put it out about 7is I'm going to leave it in their cage until midnight before I toss it. Im glad they'll know when food has gone bad because I rely on my husband to sniff everything for me.

This afternoon, Pita completely finished off her bowl and when I check on her a few hours later to put her kibble back she had started to pull the fluffy lining of her hanging bed. I found a few bits scattered around her cage and gave her extra pumpkin this evening just in case she decided to eat that out of hunger. Silly imp. That's part of the reason I upped the amount this evening. Apparently 1.5 ounces wasn't enough for her this morning.

As for her stool. It's definitely formed, just not as hard as it was. It does make sense that it would be softer since she is consuming more liquid. I also noticed she is not drinking as much, just a little bit right after she eats. But then again, the soupy she is eating has lots of liquid so that makes sense too.

I did try giving Sugar some on my finger tonight and she licked it right off. I switched to a spoon and she kept licking. I put her down to get her closer to the bowl and she suddenly lost interest! We'll try again tomorrow morning.

I do have a question about freezing into ice cube shapes. Do you use regular ice cube trays or something else? The tray I was using snapped in half when I was trying to remove the cubes. I'm not sure what else I can use to freeze individuals servings in. Maybe those disposable Tupperware?

[Heather]

Sounds like your little ones are doing great. That's fantastic that Sugar tried the food. Looks like while her mental state is as confused and upset as it is, you will have to spoon feed her for a bit. I like how far she's come even in the last few days. Well done.
Pita's a naughty little thing tearing apart her bedding like that. The extra pumpkin will help things pass
Don't be surprised at their hunger right now, especially when you first get them going. I find that new switches eat sometimes 3 x what they will eat when they settle down to eating raw.
I don't use ice cube trays for my brats....remember I'm feeding 12 ferrets . I hand feed 2 sickies (but at the moment they're just eating watered down regular grind) and the rest eat from bowls. I do use ice cube trays to make up my sickies baby food and their electrolyte drink. I just bought them at the dollar store (that way if they break, I don't feel too bad about tossing them). I usually fill them freeze them and then put the frozen food cubes into a plastic bag and then repeat until all the stuff is used up. Maybe, you could spray with anti-stick spray to make taking the meat cubes out easier. I don't know if that would work or not but it might be worth a try. The cubes you're taking out are more solid than liquid where what I'm using the trays for is basically liquid.
You are doing fantastic by your little ones
ciao

[angelfish]

So I just picked up both bowls. Pita ate every last drop that was in there. Spice ate about 2/3 of what was left. I did however find a poop that was very watery diarrhea and seed-like. More of a yellow-ish color. It was so runny that part of it was outside the litter box about an inch or two away. I'm thinking it was Spice because there was another poo that was dry and formed which I think was Sugar's.

What could have caused that? Upset tummy from kibble and raw together? That seems a little extreme. I did add pumpkin to his food tonight. Maybe another teaspoon or two of pumpkin tomorrow too?

[angelfish]

I have no idea how to add pictures so here are some links instead. Forgive the fuzziness, I had the wrong setting on the camera.

Sugar
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-Jp3ERiC113vVah13eCpU6pOmWNiINfwwGWTYA3YsqI?feat=directlink

Pita
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1BSZkEEr4MBtHhUWLDHgyapOmWNiINfwwGWTYA3YsqI?feat=directlink
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/q28LKydvzq1S7sl2S67LPapOmWNiINfwwGWTYA3YsqI?feat=directlink

Spice
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/aV1oYptwJNtS-dqg_FDX8apOmWNiINfwwGWTYA3YsqI?feat=directlink
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ATJLyZ-gEu5Fb1x_kPD5sKpOmWNiINfwwGWTYA3YsqI?feat=directlink

Spice's Poo
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/e5gLArjh1khJxnX7AprlHqpOmWNiINfwwGWTYA3YsqI?feat=directlink
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/So0iGWebBK0lJJVLKiJhnqpOmWNiINfwwGWTYA3YsqI?feat=directlink

Now that I look at it again, the stuff in the box looks much like what he's been doing. It does have a bit of shape, not sure why the rest looks so flat.

[Heather]

That is undigested fat it's not horribly bad....it looks like someone is having trouble with the transition between diets. I would keep an eye out and see if you can actually see who's doing these mushy bombs. I would be tempted to add some more egg shell to his soupy. How much are you adding now? How much pumpkin is in his soupy at the moment? Pumpkin if given should only be about a tsp (you can use pumpkin in larger amounts for blockages, this allows things to move through smoothly). Love those little faces. You have a cute crew )
ciao

[angelfish]

That is undigested fat it's not horribly bad....it looks like someone is having trouble with the transition between diets. I would keep an eye out and see if you can actually see who's doing these mushy bombs.

I know it's Spice based on the place in the litter box. Sugar always goes in ove particular box on the far side. This morning I found another jelly like one and also one that was more formed and shaped. He seems to be acting normal though.

I would be tempted to add some more egg shell to his soupy. How much are you adding now? How much pumpkin is in his soupy at the moment? Pumpkin if given should only be about a tsp (you can use pumpkin in larger amounts for blockages, this allows things to move through smoothly).

I used 1/2 tsp in the bath but truthfully, I didn't weight the meat when I made the batch . I definitely know better now though. I do own a kitchen scale so it will be getting a lot more use. I know I used 3 cups of water to thing and I ended up with a total of about 6 cups of soupy. I used a heading tablespoon - probably an equivalent to 2 tablespoon measurements or so for the whole batch. Last night I gave Pita about a teaspoon or two worth and I had a little bit left, maybe a teaspoon, and stirred it into this food. He didn't finish the whole thing though.

Oi, he just had a big diarrhea poop, on the carpet no less. He's usually so good about the litter box. It wasn't sickly green like I associate with obstruction, it was just a light brown color, but definitely watery with no shape at all. He did eat some from the spoon but every time I turned around today, he was in the cage and had found a piece of kibble from somewhere, no idea where.

Sugar ate well today from the spoon. Definitely making progress. She even dooked some today while chasing Pita and sometimes just because I guess. :-P

It looks like Pita did eat some of that lining because I found a bit of green in her first poo this morning. The second one was normal though.

What can I do for Spice? Should I just leave the kibble out all day and wake them up this afternoon to spoon feed them and then again at dinner. Just replace the kibble for overnight? I don't think he got into anything, he's been pretty good about that.

I have a pound of ground turkey that I defrosted last night that I am going to use for their dinner. I was thinking an ounce of organ meat, 1 tsp of eggshell, and maybe 2 tablespoons of pumpkin (or do I not need to add pumpkin since they're getting eggshell?).

How on earth do you handle 12 of them??? I feel like I can barely handle 3. They're managing to keep me on my toes right now.

I did weigh them all this morning. Pita is up 2 ounces, Spice is down 3/4 (or 1/4 he wouldn't sit still) from his vet visit a week ago and Sugar is up 1/4 ounce. I must say Pita is becoming one solid little ferret. She weighs almost as much as Sugar but Sugar is soft and squishy, Pita is very much not!

[angelfish]

One more question. When I make soupie tonight, can I use the whole chicken instead of just the thighs? I was going to make an ground turkey/chicken soupie that should last me several days in the freezer since we'll be having guests all weekend. I doubt they want to see me making raw food while they're here.

I know the eggshell should be 1/2 tsp per 8oz. How much organ meat should I use? 1ounce per pound sound right? How much, if any, pumpkin. I'm horrible with recipes but I want to get this right.

Spice's poos are a little on the small side this afternoon, as in only an inch or two long. I'm wondering if he did eat something I didn't catch. Maybe laxatone is in order?

[angelfish]

Happy New Year!

With the new year, I need to figure out some new logistics. Obviously Spice and Sugar need to be introduced to raw at a much slower rate than Pita. I also don't want to deprive her of eating raw. She's also a growing kit so I've found that she needs to have raw available for a few hours after she gets done with play because she gets hungry.

Now, originally I intended to group everyone into one 2-story FN within the next few weeks/months. This is going to be a lot harder if everyone is on different diets. I can't just leave raw in the cage for Pita because I know Spice would eat it. I've already seen the results on introducing too much raw too soon. I suppose this means they'll all have to be separated until/when I get my older two eating raw without gastro problems.

I'm making up a new batch of chicken soupie from one of your recipies:

8oz of chicken thigh/drumstick
1/2 tsp of eggshell
1/2 ounce of chicken organ (my farmer's grind)
1 tbsp of pumpkin

I wonder though, can I add the whole chicken or just the thighs. I won't use the rest of the chicken myself right now. It seems a waste not to use the rest of the chicken in the soupie. What do you think?

[Heather]

You can increase the recipe by any amount. Just increase the rest of the ingredients accordingly. Just noted that amount of pumpkin, you could try decreasing that for that recipe to about a tsp. A tblp would be used to move a hairball or foreign object, it would probably give them loose stools. I make my ground mix about every 2 weeks and mix up 10 lbs at a time. The only difference is I use ground bone in my mix instead of egg shell.
I wouldn't think that it pushes plans of combining your crew by too much...maybe a week or two. Just make sure that every time that you feed your little ones that they've been without their kibbles for at least an hour, preferably a bit more. The reason for this is that kibbles digests slower than raw. So if you feed raw right after kibbles then the raw ferments behind the kibble (which fills the digestive track like a plug because it doesn't digest) causing a bacteria load that is difficult for your little ones to handle, especially if they're not use to handling that type of bacteria.
Keep me posted on how you plan to slowly introduce your little ones. I would think that setting up an actual schedule with daily observations might work to your advantage. It would also help anyone who is also reading this thread on how to feed furkids who have upset difficulties in the transitions
ciao

[angelfish]

Oops, that was supposed to be tsp, npt tbsp The vet suggested I introduce 1 tsp of raw a day and see how they do. That's currently my plan. I don't intend to try and start them again for another week or so so that I can finish the antibiotics and given them a day or two after that.

I'm planning on 1 tsp a day for 4-6 days, keeping tabs on their response and up it by a tsp ever 2-3 days. If they have any reaction, I will back off on it. Hopefully they're bodies can learn to adjust to the higher levels of protein at that rate and I won't be seeing anymore seedy poo.

Pita, however, has been doing exceptionally well on the raw so I plan to reintroduce her to soupie and only give her kibble at night. I think she'll be eating whole pieces reliably within a week or two, at which point I will remove her kibble entirely.