Jacksmomma's Switching Thread/Heather & Mustelidmu

[Heather]

Name: Heather
HF Forum Username: Jacksmomma

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? browsing online for the "best" food to feed my little man

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I want to switch to an all natural whole prey/ BARF diet

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
Jack recently went through some pretty serious surgery to remove several bladder stones. I really had no warning that he was sick until it was time for emergency surgery. Although his stones have come back from analysis as being cystein stones (and the real cause of this is somewhat unknown and may be genetic) I think it's time for a complete overhaul of what he's been eating.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?

This is commitment that i HAVE to make. I dont want jack to go through another episode of stones.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?

I only have the one ferret, Jack. He was abandoned last year at the shelter i volunteer at and since he was left during nighttime hours (when dumping is illegal) no one knows too much about this little guys past. The shelter was strictly cats and dogs and no one knew what to do with a ferret. So i took him in and my vet estimated he was ~1 yr which makes him 2 now. At 2 lb 8 oz i think he's a little on the skinny side but my vet thinks his weight is perfect for him

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
Jack came home and i started him on Marshalls ferret and any chance he got, he ran downstairs and stole my cat's Halo catfood. I checked the ingredients and crude analysis between the two products and halo actually seemed like a better product (now i know better). He's been eating that for the last year. All along he has been loving-on ferretone skin and coat supplement. I recently have been trying to get him to eat soup and the past few days he has actually been taking it. I just boil up chicken thighs until the bones are pretty soft and then blend them together with the "broth," some EVO ferret kibble and some ferretone. He also has a bag of Wysong Primal Ferret food *(freeze dried raw) that he wont touch

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? I have not.

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?

Every day

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).


Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentors (Heather....whoo hoo that's me ) and (Mustilidmusk, Jennifer) will introduce themselves you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Note that you have 2 mentors as we're hoping that by combining forces that we can find enough information to assist you to safely switch your little one and hopefully prevent any further issues with these horrible stones. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentors) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentors and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentors is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[Heather]

Hi
I'm Heather, and we're going to be working together for the next little while trying to convince your furbaby to change to a healthier diet
I've been feeding a raw/natural diet for a little over 10 yrs. I have a small private rescue/sanctuary, just outside of Toronto, Canada where all ferrets turned into me are switched immediately over to a raw diet that consists of ground raw/whole meats or frankenprey/ and prey diet. At present every ferret eats this full range of diets. I don't keep kibbles in the house. All my furbabies are free roaming and have access to an outdoor play area that they can access at will. At present there are 12 little fuzzbutts who call this their permanent home. They range in ages of about 1 yr to my senior citizen, Dr. Pooka Dooks who is about 10 yrs. My most difficult switch was a little senior who was turned in at 9 yrs of age (she by the way has been my biggest raw switch challenge, which had me at times wondering why I was doing this to her) She eventually was completely switched and putting on a beautiful dark black coat, teeth that were nicely cleaned up, and she actually has a lot of fun investigating the house (she used to do nothing but sleep when she first was turned in). She has made me aware that every ferret no matter how old, can get a new lease on life by eating a species appropriate diet. She eventually passed on at 11 yrs of age to complete organ failure....old age.
Raw soupy is my favourite switching tool and one that I've had the most success with.
You can try to get them to eat a raw soup immediately. You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:

8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat)
1/2 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder)
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
Water or broth(use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker)
Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest.

Most ferrets will willingly eat the food once they actually TASTE it, so the only struggle you *should* encounter is them not wanting to taste it. Don't be surprised if your furbabies' initial reaction is to gag, spit and look at you like, what are you trying to poison me with But don't let them get away with it The hardest part is to insist and be consistent. Please also be aware that after years of kibbles they aren't aware that what you're offering them is indeed food. Once they willingly eat from your finger and spoon, work to try and get them eating this out of a dish or plate.

Each time you make your soupy, use a little less water to make it thicker/chunkier. Replace soup with fresh soup every 4-6 hours. You can make a large batch if you like and freeze into ice cubes or cupcake trays. Then you just thaw a portion and serve. OR you can put a frozen "cube" into their bowl and let it slowly thaw.

This is a good way to slowly ease them into wet foods. I use this method to switch all my furbabies and I've personally switched approximately 30 ferrets of my own in the last few years.
I will let you read through and if you have any questions please ask.
Good luck
ciao

[jacksmomma]

Thanks Heather (and Jennifer!) Last night I went to Petco and bought Jack a water fountain that dispenses water very similarly to the bathroom sink faucet so hopefully that will keep him drinking LOTS of water. Also, bought salmon oil to replace the Ferretone that he so enjoys.

The night before last i made a batch of soup that had chicken thighs, giblets, some beef heart, and a tiny bit of chicken liver. He ate what i put in his mouth but that was it. I decided to try something a little simpler so I made a batch of raw soup that consisted of 2 chicken thighs, some chicken baby food and a capsule amount of salmon oil. I did a "scruff and stuff" and once Jack got the taste in his mouth he actually ate willingly from a spoon. It wasn't alot (maybe a little over a tablespoon) but it was something. This morning he ate quite a bit more than last night of the soup. There isn't much in the way of chunks in there, but there is a few strings of fat that he does chew up. Soooo no spitting out so far and he hasn't had any vomiting.


PS Vita (cat) samples every batch before Jack maybe she'll make the "switch" along with him

[Heather]

Congratulations....you're well on your way. Looks like kitty is going to make the journey right along with you and Jack...why not...it's the same stuff. My guys eat the cats' food all the time and vice versa. Keep putting the little raw chunks of meat and fat in it and getting him to eat more and more of the meat. You're doing great.
ciao

[jacksmomma]

Last night Jack licked the bowl clean of his soup. When he's hungry and has no distractions... that little man can EAT! He's been two days completely off "crackers (kibble)" and he hasn't shown any signs of tummy upset or weird poopies (maybe they're a little less formed).

Is a capsule (its ~ 1 mL - i draw it out with a syringe) of salmon oil a day too much for him? I think a big part of why he's taken so well to the raw soup is that he loves the salmon oil. I'll start incorporating organ meat to his soup tonight and some egg shell for calcium

[Heather]

I use about .5 ml per day for my guys. My mentor told me I was spoiling them that they should be getting about .25 ml but they do ok on it so what the hey . It varies from day to day. I use it as a chaser for their meds and when I cut their toenails and weigh them.
I will be interested in hearing how this goes down. He's being a real little trouper and taking to this very well. That's great news about the "no biscuits" thing. Great work
ciao

[jacksmomma]

Good news...

Jack ate his first piece of bone/ cartilage. He found a nuckle of chicken thigh bone in his soup last night and crunched it up like a little champ! I mixed some ground rabbit in his soup this morning and that was not a hit. I'll stick with the chicken and continue adding larger pieces. I'm so excited about the quick progress he's making!

[Heather]

Remember each protein source will be treated with similar resistance to what the first protein that was introduced. Don't shelve that rabbit...offer it again in a few days but be a little more insistent. You may have to go through the same process as the chicken to get him to eat other proteins. I've had a number of students encounter this and it's all part of the process. I believe it's sherrylynne who has a brat (Boris) who has to force fed even proteins he's had before if she's been negligent and not offered it in the last few weeks . Some ferrets just look at it as another raw meal, others look at each new protein as another "poison" . He's moving along beautifully. That's great news about the bone, that's one of the more difficult parts of your switch....getting him to eat bone. Your doing great
ciao

[jacksmomma]

I figured as much about the "new protein" sources. He was just as against lamb. But he is eating fairly large hunks of chicken (without me feeding him from a spoon). How long can he eat just chicken? Should i really be forcing new sources on him now?

Yesterday was not the greatest raw day. One of the cats kept dropping kibble off of the counter down to his greedy little butt. he ate just enough (maybe 10 pieces) to distract him from his dinner

[mustelidmusk]

Quick note....I'm continuing to researh protein sorces. I had some links to interesting info that got lost These links say nothing really new from what we already know - but it's good to undertand the issue, and there were two suggesting that diet change to low protein may not do all that much to prevent futher development of cystine stione. In fact , in one study, which had only a SMALL handful of ferrets (can't remember how many), two of the ferrets do NOT develop any more stones WITHOUT a chane in diet.

Kibble is not good for stones since it's dry. Fresh meat contains water .

Regarding not eating variety - it takes a relatively long period of time to develop a dietary issue. Sounds like you're doing really well with the switch. A LOT of ferrets start out very picky about new meat sources, so this is normal. One thing you can do is offer a finely chopped mix of mostly chicken with a small amount of lamb. Over time, slowly change the ratio. No, this is not a step back from the chicken chunks...your brats will adjust back to big chunks, and big chunks of chicken only can be offered for some meals

-jennifer

[jacksmomma]

You read my mind! I didnt want to blend in rabbit (or lamb) because i was afraid he would be moving backwards. I will certainly push the rabbit tonight and hopefully work up to a mostly rabbit soup by the end of the week, then do the same with the lamb. I'm a little hesitant to give him beef because of all the hormones (organic beef is too expensive) so hopefully between chicken, turkey, the lamb and the rabbit and the whole prey, i'll be able to find a mixture of things he enjoys.

His poops are definitely "more gross" now than his kibble poops but they seem pretty comparable to the "poop chart" someone recently posted. Best investment ever = little green spot cleaning machine. perfect for ferret "accidents."

[Heather]

Suki just posted a huge information post regarding the stones on the ferrethealth list. My biggest concern (I've not read the whole post yet) is the anti raw sentiment on that list. It doesn't appear to enter into the whole equation yet. Do you want me to post that here, or do you want the information as a pm. I can do either.
Follow Jennifer's idea, it's one of the simplest ways to get them to eat multiple proteins when they stick their heels in and refuse to eat other protein sources. It's also a lot less stressful on all parties. I feed beef occasionally, but not a lot as my guys aren't particularly fond of it.
ciao

[mustelidmusk]

You can post the link here. I'll check it out. I hven't looked into what's on the FHL very much because Dr. Murray recommends less protein, even for cystine stones, and I know that most of the readers as well as all of the moderators and vets are very traditional with acceptance of raw as well as non-allopathic treatments. As I had previously mentioned, cysteine is generated by the body, so they don't even lnow that low protein makes a difference. My vet appointment is next monday. I expect to confirm what we already know, but I know there are some meds that prevent development of and/or can help dissolve cysteine stones.

-jennifer

[jacksmomma]

I'd love for you to post that link as well! I'm trying to self educate but no one seems to agree on the topic.

On a lighter note, Jack's activity level is sky high right now. I'm sure he's fully recouped from his surgery and the no carbs is definitely helping there. His new favorite past-time = climbing his FN and racing up and down the staircase.

[jacksmomma]

I just thought about this... I can give Jack salmon as a source of protein, right? He loves salmon oil so that should be an easy one.