|
Post by dreamsome on Nov 18, 2010 15:12:10 GMT -5
hi all! so i'm new to this whole "raw fed" diet and it's turning out to be a little more difficult than i thought. i have 2 ferrets; my little girl's name is vienna who is about 2 years old and is on feline innova. she was about one when we adopted her. the new little guy is 15 weeks old named london. i gave up the idea of feeding raw to vienna when i ignorantly assumed it wasn't possible- i put a piece of chicken in her face and she backed away like i was crazy! but after being a lurker in the forum for quite some time, i realize that with time and patience i can convert her. with london, i figured it would probably take nothing to get him to eat meat and BOY was i right. he is a pig, let me tell you! currently we have in the freezer: chicken thighs and breasts steak chunks lamb chops chicken hearts and livers the ONLY thing he hasn't taken a liking to is chicken lungs. i found that at the bottom of the cage like it was an outcast! i would if someone could come up with a feeding schedule for me. i've searched many threads but couldn't find a feeding schedule that either a. i didn't know how to acquire the food or b. it included mice. so that brings another topic- can he go his whole life without eating whole prey, or should i eventually incorporate it? i've looked on the site "hare today" and thought about ordering but have NO idea what to get. any suggestions would be awesome. i feel like i'm a kid and rather than ask for help on something i simply say "just give me the answers!" lauren
|
|
|
Post by horse656 on Nov 18, 2010 16:15:34 GMT -5
haha. welcome you can make up your own schedule, but for switching with your older ferret i would take a look at getting a mentor, their really helpful. they need about 10% of their diet organs, 5% of that should be liver. they need about 4 days, about 8 meals of bones. most people balance these needs out weekly. no, you don't have to feed whole prey. if the schedule you want has whole prey in it, just switch it out with something that has bones. switching the babies are easy. my girl ate it up right away when i brought her home.
|
|
|
Post by jacksmomma on Nov 18, 2010 16:35:02 GMT -5
I find with my boys that the ground mixes go over best. They'll certainly eat the meat off of a bone like no other, but will not actually crunch into bone. So the ground mixes offer a nice, "hidden" source of bone (and organ).
Hare Today is a great resource. I actually just got in my order from them yesterday. For the month (probably a bit longer than a month) for my two (2 year male and 3 month male) I ordered 2 pounds of the whole ground quail (this has feathers in it), 3 pounds of ground rabbit, 5 pounds of ground duck, 3 pounds of pheasant, 3 pounds of ground goat and some duck heart and necks. I will also feed 2-3 meals a week of chicken thigh (on the bone) and chicken gizzards, as well as ground turkey and turkey thighs. As soon as I got my order, I used my kitchen scale to break each into 4 ounce portions and then froze in well -labeled zip-lock bags. Over the last few weeks I've monitored how much my two eat in a twelve hour period and with 4 ounce portions, they come close to finishing it but always have a tiny bit left over. This way I minimize waste (and stashing) but know that they are never going hungry.
|
|
|
Post by sherrylynne on Nov 18, 2010 17:15:50 GMT -5
Hi, and welcome A good general balanced diet would be Mon. bone in Tues. muscle meats Wed. bone in Thurs. muscle meats Fri. bone in Sat. bone in Sun. organ meat/optional(soup, bone in, muscle) Bone in could be chicken, turkey necks/ribs/wing tips, same for duck, rabbit, cornish game hen, oxtail. Stay away from weight bearing bones. Some can get through chicken thighs/drumsticks, but most can't. Muscle would be pork, chicken, turkey, lamb, goat, beef- basically any meat you can name! As long as it's not altered in any way(smoked, brined, spiced, etc.) Heart is muscle meat- which they need at least weekly for the taurine(or equivalent supplement substitute). Organs are liver, kidney, brain, lung, pancreas, etc. Most are hard to obtain, so the majority stick with kidney and liver. If you would like a hand switching your older ferret, you can either sign up for the mentoring program, for some one on one work, or you can start a thread devoted to that in the newbie section As for whole prey, you don't need to feed that if you aren't comfortable with it. I swore I never could And yes, I do now, simply because they enjoy it so much For eating bone, they have to work up to it. It's kind of like you deciding to lift weights, and starting out with a 200 lb barbell! They need to build up jaw, head, and neck strength to be able to crunch through them!
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Nov 18, 2010 19:14:59 GMT -5
I switched my oldest girl, Pixie, when she was two, also. It wasn't fun, but it only took about a week, total, to get her on the raw diet.
My newest ferret, Hiko, is a rescue and he's also two-ish. He was eating raw the same night as I got him (I crumble kibble into a powder and dust it over boneless/ground meat. It seems a pretty easy way to switch, in my experience, that is).
I also use Hare-Today (mainly because I wasn't satisfied with what my store had to offer). My guys don't like the whole carcass ground quail (although two of my cats enjoy it), nor do they like ANY of the rabbit stuff (I have no answer as to why), but they LOVE duck; they enjoy the turkey and goose, and they'll eat the pheasant (all this is ground). I get fine ground and also the coarse ground, as well as their turkey/duck hearts, boneless turkey thighs and boneless duck breast. I also use them for quail feet, dressed quail and duck/chicken necks.
Lately, I've gotten the f/t whole quail. So far, my girls enjoy, but my boys are more standoffish. Basically, Hare-Today is great, and I've been using them as my sole source since ... August, I think?
I'm thinking this doesn't really help you out, but it could (?) give you some ideas for what you might want to order? I hope?
Anyway, welcome to the forum!
|
|
|
Post by dreamsome on Nov 18, 2010 20:24:59 GMT -5
thanks, everyone! i'm amazed by the amount of replies in such a short time. you're awesome. so i've put together an order on hare today (not yet purchased- want advice before i do) and all of the ground meats i chose include the organs and bone. in the cart are these items: ground chicken, ground rabbit, ground duck, ground beef, chicken hearts, beef liver and duck necks. so let me know if this schedule sounds about right.... if not, then this really is a little more difficult than i thought! mon- ground chicken tues- ground rabbit wed-chicken thigh/beef liver thurs- ground beef fri- ground duck sat- duck necks/whatever i feel like sun- chunks of steak/lamb chops i've been giving him a chicken heart everyday (because of the taurine i've heard you guys talk about) and figure that the ground meats w/the bone should cover the bone needs. i think this schedule pretty much covers everything, and i'm guessing that it won't hurt if i sometimes combine some of the ground up meats for added variety!
|
|
|
Post by sherrylynne on Nov 18, 2010 23:05:47 GMT -5
That looks pretty good. You've got 9 bone meals there, 3 definite muscle meats. Only thing I'd change a bit is to supplement the beef liver meal. Since there is already organ in 8 meals, I'd give maybe 1/2 oz of liver, with some muscle chunks. Otherwise, you may be overdoing it a bit on the organ. Do you plan on giving the heart on a daily basis still?
|
|
|
Post by jacksmomma on Nov 19, 2010 8:18:59 GMT -5
Your plan sounds perfectly good. but you may want to shy from ordering the grocery store stuff from hare today... with shipping you'd end up paying alot more for beef liver and ground chicken/beef than you would at the grocery store. Just something to think about, but I think you have a great start!
@ Sunnyberra, this is the first time I've ordered the whole carcass quail and I was pretty shocked by what it looked like. I offered it to the boys today for breakfast (along with a bunch of chicken gizzards) and I wont be surprised if i get home and no one has touched it. But *fingers crossed* I hope they eat it
|
|
|
Post by sunnyberra on Nov 19, 2010 8:29:16 GMT -5
jacksmommayeah, I mean, my guys used to eat it occasionally, but they got one serving where it was a bit drier than normal, and ever since then they shy away from it and would rather go hungry than eat it (and my guys usually hate even the barest trace of a hunger pain ;D ). I'm going to keep ordering it for my cats, but I'm not even interested in trying to get them back on it. There's plenty of other stuff!
|
|
|
Post by dreamsome on Nov 19, 2010 11:39:08 GMT -5
sherrylynne- since he will be getting enough organs, i'm going to scratch out the beef livers, then. that's something i hadn't really thought about! we already have chicken livers in the fridge if i really wanted to give him little bits, but knowing i don't have to order them anymore simplifies things. i was planning on giving him heart everyday- is this too much, or altogether unnecessary? jacksmomma- the reason i'm ordering grocery items from them is because i don't know what ratio of meat/organ/bone to use. and the only organs i can acquire are liver and lung- the latter of which he will not touch plus, i don't have any sort of grinder/blender to do that! i want convenience- even if that means paying a bit extra! sunnyberra- thanks for the advice! i'm going to try to make a "soup" by reading some recipes on here... if after a week she's still not interested (she even HATES the gerber chicken food) then i'll think about a mentor! you all are a great help. on a completely different note, i'm sure no dummy but i cannot figure out how to add a profile picture... DANG.
|
|
|
Post by dreamsome on Nov 19, 2010 11:41:54 GMT -5
OH i wanted to ask one more thing- after i give him the beef and lamb chop chunks, his stool is very, very runny. i'm thinking it's not an allergy as he shows no other symptoms... should i avoid these altogether? because i've fed him those mixed several times, i can't point out which meat is the culprit.
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Nov 19, 2010 13:43:49 GMT -5
If you feed meat without bone then you will get looser stools. Ferrets require a very high meat to bone ratio. Some need less, some need more. I wouldn't avoid those meats until you've ruled out that even with feeding bone on a regular basis that he's still having lousy stools. It's the same when you make an organ soupy. You then have a tendency to have very loose, watery, black stools. You can add bonemeal or finely ground egg shell 1/2 tsp to 8 oz of meat. You can also add some pumpkin too (this is to work like fur would, if he was eating a prey diet) My guys have loose, tarry stools after having a feast of gibbys. ciao
|
|
|
Post by sherrylynne on Nov 19, 2010 17:31:06 GMT -5
Since they can't overdose on taurine, I'd err on the side of caution, and give the chicken hearts a couple of times a week, anyway. As for the liver, the normal amount for a ferret is one approx. 2oz piece of liver per ferret per week, so since you will be giving organ in the grind 8 meals a week, maybe give an extra ounce or so of chicken liver every two to three weeks. General ratio for ferrets would be about 70% meat/20% bone/10% organs. If you find the stools are still somewhat loose, try upping the bone a wee bit. And about a tsp per 8 oz of meat of pumpkin is a very good idea. It helps to feed the gut for good bacteria, and replaces the non digestibles they'd get with a whole prey diet. Also, if you can get yourself a cheap blender, it's a very good idea. Most of us like to give the ferrets some type of soup on a regular basis. That way, if/when they are ill, they'll have something to eat that they are already accustomed to, and you won't have to fight as much trying to get food into a sick ferret.
|
|
|
Post by dreamsome on Nov 20, 2010 14:31:05 GMT -5
thanks for the advice! i've just purchased an order online of: ground chicken/organ/bone chicken hearts whole ground rabbit ground duck/organ/bone duck necks i'm going to see how everything goes for him. i'm going to read more into what pumpkin/eggshell does throughout the forum. thanks again for everyone's help!
|
|
|
Post by rarnold18 on Nov 20, 2010 17:17:07 GMT -5
Looks like your on the right path! My crew lovelovelove rabbit, and when I give them bunnies (my mil breeds and when a little one from a litter passes she puts them in the freezer for my fuzz) they will actually fight over them, even if there are three or four bunnies in the cage! monsters! A great place to look for a blender or food processor is Goodwill or Salvation Army...even Craigslist or yard sales...$5 can get you a real nice one when your looking there!
|
|