Q: long term raw & teeth(and aging)

[mustelidmusk]

I have a question for those of you who have older ferrets that have been fed raw for all/most of their lives....

As your ferrets have gotten older, at what age did their teeth (especially the canines) begin to turn translucent?

Thanks! Jennifer

[kainslie]

I've only had my ferret for about 3 months, but he is 4 years old.

When i got him he had brown gunky teeth (kibble) and now he was light white teeth, I wouldn't say translucent, but ... I guess a little. I don't know how to describe it.

I wouldn't say it's a raw thing, because I rather have 'traslucent' like teeth than grime and gunked teeth. Even though they are lighter, i don't think they are any thinner, or weaker - let's hope!

[Heather]

I found that the translucensy of the teeth didn't change much Jennifer. I did find the die off of the teeth or darkening of the teeth seems to occur much later though. I noticed that Mad Max who was about 11 and Pooka who is about 10 or so the canines though starting to die off seemed to remain much stronger. I will let you know as Napoleon ages (he's been on raw all his life). He's coming up on 6 and the translucency of his teeth seem to be about the same as the charts I have. What I do like is that the root appears much healthier than the kibble fed ferrets with less translucency of the gums.
ciao

[mustelidmusk]

Hmmm..... my vet made the a comment that pretty much freaked me out after examining all 4. He said that if he did not know my ferret's history, he'd guess them to be about 2 years old based upon their exams. I commented that he was being overly optimistic. He stated that he was serious - their organs, heart, coat and energy level are much closer to 4 than 5.5. Ad he added that their teeth haven't even started to yellow or turn translucent.

At the time, I just assumed that all raw-fed ferts just keep white/opaque teeth as they get older. But then I remembered a thread about canine teeth being translucent at the tips (bottom quarter-half way up) at the age of 3. My first two ferrets had the teeth that changed, but they were kibble-fed babies. All 4 of my current brats still have white teeth.

I'll see if I can get a picture/close-up that's good enough to show their teeth. Maybe I'm missing the boat here, but their teeth look white to me - they never changed color/translucency

Thanks,
-jennifer

[Heather]

I will double check Napoleon. I will also check Boris and Natasha, I just remembered that they came to me raw fed. I gather Natasha was about 6 months when she was switched over, so I may not get a good reading from her, but Boris I think was raw fed from the start. They're about 4 yrs old now, so I should be seeing some translucently, though not alot
ciao

[mustelidmusk]

Thanks Heather, I'll be curious to see what you find. I'm wondering if perhaps the trace mineral supplement (natural source) and antlers might affect their teeth. I'll never know for sure, but if your kids are showing some translucency at 4-5.5+ years old, then perhaps there is some validity to the theory that trace mineral have been deleted from our diets. I just fed the trace minerals because it was recommended by my holistic vet. I always kind of wondered if it made a difference

-jennifer

[bluemoose]

Sorry to be dense but I'm kind of confused. Translucent teeth is a good thing? Because you said "All 4 of my current brats still have white teeth" and then made an angry face. I would have thought white teeth was good

[Heather]

If you look at a kits teeth, they're bright white and solid.

As a ferret gets older if you look at the tip of the fang you will see a clear almost translucent appearance at the tip. As they age this rides further and further up the tooth. At about 3 or 4 you will see this clarity about a third the way up the tooth

, at about 6 or 7 you will see it half way up and you will start to see it on the gum line as well

Photos aren't really good but if you look hard you will see what I mean. I don't have the proper lights and filters to take a clear photo. At 10 or so you will see this clarity about two thirds of the way up and probably will see some browning at the root as the tooth dies. Now that part is pure conjecture on my part as I've only had 3 or 4 hit that age and it happened with each of those ferrets. This is how we age ferrets.
Jennifer, your vet is correct to a point or at least with Napoleon and Boris. There is some translucency but.... It doesn't go through the tooth, it's only on the edges. You have to look very closely (not like the kibble fed brats) and you can still see it but with the raw fed kids the tooth is still solid. Now, Lady Natasha (kibble fed for 6 months) has the same dentashion as any of the rest of the kibble brats. Boris on the other hand has solid teeth like Napoleon. I'm thinking that the benefits of the added minerals and such can only be absorbed into the teeth for a limited time. Boris and Napoleon were both raw fed from the date of purchase and both were fresh off the shipping docks. Their adult teeth still hadn't formed yet. I would be interested to hear from the raw feeding breeders on this site. Perhaps, they could help us further??!!
ciao

[mustelidmusk]

That's interesting. My first two ferrets (kibble-fed) had classic see-through teeth. My current brats teeth are completely different in this respect. It's something I never noticed since all 4 kids look the same - and I'm usually looking more at the gum line. I'm very please with learning this and seeing that my brats have benefited from my feeding program, which is commercial-based with supplements. I always felt that my kids would be way behind the whole prey//RMB feeders.

I'm thinking that switching to raw even later in life may not reverse transparency in the teeth. But it may very well slow down the rate at which the teeth change. It's really cool to see yet another benefit from feeding raw.

-jennifer

[sunnyberra]

Pixie's five, and she was switched a little before 2, and while her teeth were lovely then, I haven't encountered any problems with hers. They're healthy and white

[miamiferret2]

Interesting to know. Kibble is said to wear down tooth enamel a lot faster. My vet said it is bad for their teeth and gums. By way, Jennifer, are you still feeding the epigen? They just sent me a sample package with the venison. But I worry bc it doesn't have enough fat. Maybe ill give him some but ill put water in it to make it soft.

[miamiferret2]

At the moment, I am only feeding freeze dried raw. Does anyone else only use the freeze dried? Does it also help teeth? Should I be giving any supplements (aside from the taurine that i already give) in his soupies?

[mustelidmusk]

I tried the Epigen for a couple of days just to evaluate the stuff. I do feel is has potential as a kibble (not all people can or will feed raw) that can help reduce the possibility of pancreatic issues in ferrets. You do need to provide additional source of animal fat with the epigen.

Some IBD ferrets do better with a little kibble. Even if you feed whole prey, your ferret may not get the nutrition from it because of a digestive problem. There are cases where kibble works better than fresh raw, so this is why I try to stay on top of kibble products and refrain from bashing kibble as a food.

I am a believer in extra taurine - even with an all fresh meat diet. I also believe the fish oils is a good supplement as well, regardless of what you feed. The olive oil is another way to prevent hairballs and potentially mitigate the risk of helicobacter issues. There's a thread that's stickied that summarizes the supplements I use. Whether or not you fee these are helpful is a very controversial thing.

Regarding freeze-dried, it helps to clean teeth if it's fed dry. If it's moistened, it does not work as well for cleaning.

Regarding the tips of teeth not turning clear, I believe this is more of a function of nutrition rather than teeth cleaning. You also have to remember that just because something goes into a ferret's stomach, it does not mean that he absorbs the nutrition. Things like the runs can interfere with a ferret's ability to absorb nutrition.

-jennifer

[miamiferret2]

the freeze dried food he eats it dry. he carries off the little chunks of dried meat everywhere. we constantly find chunks of wysong and s & c around the house...
i think you forgot to put the link on there about your supplements.
do i put the olive oil and fish oils in his soupies?

[bluemoose]

You can yes. Most anything you want to feed can be mixed into the soup. Here's the thread on supplements:
holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gen&action=display&thread=6312