Killer ferret - biting help please!

[elmafuddyesmate]

We rescued 2 ferrets, one last summer who is now perfect, and we got him a female albino friend approx 3 months ago. They now get on fine, but she bites us to death. She's about a year old and was found in a shoe box by the rescue centre. I understand that she's probably agressive due to the stress of it and also being so young, but we've had her nearly 3 months now and her biting hasn't improved. She nips us and won't let go, my boyfriend has had to prise her mouth open on a few occasions as you literally cannot get her off with anything (treats, scruffing...) once she has sunk her teeth in. I also tried scruffing her with my mouth once but it didn't have any effect and dragged her around by her scruff like the mother ferret would do but it made no difference, she still went straight back for more biting. We've also tried putting her in the cage for time out but that hasn't made any difference either.
Taking her back isn't an option as she has now bonded with Marty, but we are desperate to solve the biting situation or at least improve it. Any help is so much appreciated.

Last night I rubbed my arms with liquid soap and that didn't stop her biting and today I tried spraying her with water (fine mist) and that didn't stop her either. Today she actually drew blood. Please can someone suggest something, we're getting really desperate. Thanks.

No she's not deaf.

[Forum Administrator]

I dont have much experience with biters, but I'm bring in the calvery so hang tight

[ferretmaster]

Hi,
is the new ferret deaf? if so verbal training wont work with her.

You need to find out the reason for the biting, Take a look at what brings on the bite. Some ferrets bite out of fear, aggression or play biting, knowing what brings on the biting will help us help you.

You could use some type of "NO BITE" product like bitter apple or something similar.

When she does bite tell her in a loud firm voice "NO BITE" then give her the scruff and drag and then ignore her for a few minuets, ferrets hate to be ignored and she will soon get the message that if she bites, play time is over.

Time outs work wonders for some biters, when she bites tell her "NO BITE" and then put her in a small cage or carrier with no toys or bedding, leave her in the "TIME OUT" cage for a few minuets [ no more than 5 min] ferrets have a short attention span and will forget why they are in there. Don't use her normal cage for this she wont get the message.

When she is biting and wont let go Blow in her face or have a spray bottle of plain water handy, a quick mist of water should make her let go.

[Heather]

Hi,

I have dealt with a couple of biter, not nippers, true biters. Porthos just needed to be handled more. He was very typical of a kit who had never been handled and probably hit or kicked when he did bite. He felt he had to get the first bite in before something horrible happened. I found that just allowing him to free roam, and eat when he wanted to eat, all he wanted to eat (he came to us so starved and so covered with fleas that you could see his hips and shoulder bones sticking out and count every rib. His coat was matted and covered in feces. For the first month I didn't really try and handle him. I just let him be a ferret and explore and learn. If he was out of line then he got time out. He learned from his time outs. He hated being placed in the cage (he spent the first 9 or 10 months of his little life locked in a hamster cage). A 3 min time out for him was horrible. Once he realised that he could get hugs and snuggles and lovings he rarely bit and in fact I took him with me to some shelter fund raisers, he had come that far from the nasty aggressive biter.

Mad Max...well...I'm still not sure why he bit or why he still bites sometimes but now it's only rarely and usually if he's in the middle of something that he's not supposed to be doing. It took a lot of work. I used clicker training and treats, just like you would a dog or puppy and lots and lots of handling. The handling that was involved in the beginning was just being picked up. If he didn't nail me as my hand reached out for him, then I clicked and treated. It then graduated to allowing me to pick him up and then set him down without being bit. All the time he was rewarded. If he bit me he got nothing. His bites always drew blood, so this wasn't easy but I never actually let him get away with biting me. If he bit me then I would just pick him up anyway and give him a quick snuggle but no treat. If he continued to try and bite then I would put him down again and go through the whole process again.

With Max he didn't want to be handled so to give him a time out was actually fitting into what he wanted therefore giving him more incentive to bite whenever he didn't want to be handled. Max has been with me for over 4 yrs about 3 months ago, he actually gave me a fertkiss. So gentle persuation goes a long way
Ciao

[aleronferrets]

I would suggest allowing the biter to free roam in a ferret proofed room with the other ferret. If she can't be totally free roam, increase her out of cage activity to at least 6-7 hours a day. Often times that alone greatly decreases the biting. Biting doesn't always mean the ferret was mistreated, some animals are genetically more aggressive than others or she may not have been handled or socialized at an early age. I would suggest actually handling her as in picking her up very little for right now. If you must handle her I would wear gloves right now. Talk to her, play with her using cat teaser toys and hang out with her. Just don't attempt to get too personal right now. Hand fed her all of her meals by offering her small parts at a time. After a good month or so of handling her as little as possible, you can slowly start petting her more or lifting her up and putting her right back down. Gadually increase the time she is held and offer her treats when you are holding her. If she behaves well, her reward is to be put back down. If she objects by trying to bite or squirming, she is held until she relaxes than put back down. If gloves make you more confident in your handling of her, by all means use them until you are more comfortable. She will pick up on your nervousness and it will make the situation worse.

If the issue is genetics or temperament, she may always be nippy. If it is socialization than she should be able to come out of it with time and patience. I have had numerous biters and most eventually bonded to me and didn't bite me. Many were never trustworthy with others though and a couple were always a little "iffy" even with me.

[crichton]

have you tried bitter apple spray or a plastic pet carrier for a time out room. The pet carrier works well for a No,No Room as we call it.

[josiesmom]

I'm dealing with a serious biter now too. Dealt with three others fairly recently, one of which was labeled vicious and shipped to several homes because of it.

I allow them all free roam 24/7, the house is full of tunnels, various dig boxes, toys, stuffed animals and even a wading pool. Natural whole prey to catch and dispatch helps immensely.

I just let them be themselves until they start coming to me for attention. Which happens relatively soon when they see me playing with the nice ferrets.

At first they join in on the games from the periphery. Then they'll play with the other ferrets as those ferrets play with me. Then they'll tentatively start coming in to play with me. Chase a ball, attack a stuffed animal, slide into a tube.

I'll stroke them or touch them quickly during play, bump them deliberately as if I was another ferret. Occassionally picking up a butt and shifting it. Or very quickly picking up under their chest and setting down. I'll do this lift and let go every chance I get.

When I get bitten I hold my hand stll, or I push it gently back into their mouth. This tends to make them spit me out. However with Roman, because he's had apparently a REALLY bad time with hands he just clamps harder! One time I had to run his face, still attached to my finger, under water!

Scruff and drag, scruff and drag, tell them , "No Bite!" and hold until they yawn, sigh and "give in".

Try to time your stroking and pick ups to when they are already showing signs of tiring and wanting to cuddle. The thing to remember is that if you go to pick them up and they bite, setting them down at that time only reinforces them. So if you go to pick them up and they bite, you must STILL follow through with the pick up.

With Roman sometimes I have to swaddle him in a towel. He can't resist creeping under a towel or blanket, and as soon as he is under the towel I'll scoop him up and then maneuver my fingers into the harness hold. This prevents biting, but lets you stroke him.

Other times I have to use gloves, and sometimes I can be barehanded. He's gotten me multiple times and some really doozers too! Within the first couple days of free roam he attacked me while I slept and literally pierced my eyebrow! the very first nite he pierced my nose! Roman's first intro to human hands and learning not to bite was to get his nose pinged (and god knows what else)! So he bites as a defense mechanism. I have to get him over being defensive, then most likely I'll need to coach him on how much pressure to apply.

Fizzle also did some ambush biting and a couple times stapled my dangling hand as I slept! Fizzle's biting also was triggered by water because her previous owner would spray her in the face with water! Several times Fizzle got me as I was changing their water dish or offered her water from my drinking cup.

Without really knowing the ferret's background its hard to tell what sets them off. All you can do is prove to them their new family is here to stay and they will be loved but they do need to learn their manners. They are smart and will figure it out - you've just got to forgive them their insecurities and hope your punctures heal quickly.

Time, patience, timing, ignoring the bites, cosistency and more patience is the key.

Something to rule out too is an adrenal problem. Hormone imbalances can make them more aggressive.

Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Kim

[nwheather]

There are a lot of good words of advice for biters here. Remember that each ferret is different, & what may work for one, may not work for another. Try something, if it doesn't work, try something else listed.
I have a foremer vampire ferret ("Zena"). She drew blood so many times, I lost count.
The best adice I can give you is give them time, extra love, be patient, & before you know it, you will have a totally different ferret!
You can PM me if you want, if you want more info on different techniques. =)

[josiesmom]

Fire7chix posted:

"You can PM me if you want, if you want more info on different techniques. =)"

I for one would appreciate it if you would please post your "different techniques" on this forum for all to see. From what's been posted it appears that pretty much all bases have been covered.

Considering I am STILL in the process of rehabbing a severe biter its always good to see what has worked for other people.

On the other hand when people suggest PMing instead of publicly posting their ideas and experiences, it raises questions in my mind about the humaneness of their process.

Looking forward to your exchange.

Cheers,
Kim

[nwheather]

Jun 30, 2008 12:35:39 GMT -5 josiesmom said:

Fire7chix posted:

"You can PM me if you want, if you want more info on different techniques. =)"

I for one would appreciate it if you would please post your "different techniques" on this forum for all to see. From what's been posted it appears that pretty much all bases have been covered.

Considering I am STILL in the process of rehabbing a severe biter its always good to see what has worked for other people.

On the other hand when people suggest PMing instead of publicly posting their ideas and experiences, it raises questions in my mind about the humaneness of their process.

Looking forward to your exchange.

Cheers,
Kim

It was because so many options were posted that I said if she wanted more ideas to PM me. That & I work graveyard shift, & I was at the end of responding to emails, & replies on forums, & I was too tired to post a long reply.

I have no problem posting what I did for Zena.
The technique I used is a bit different from others posted, but it was a very sucessful one for me.

Scruffing was completeyly out of the question with her, as it would set her off like a tazmanian devil when I would scruff her. She ripped into me pretty good mutliple times. She's very quick & no matter how quick I thought I might be, she was always quicker. I gave up on scruffing real quick & looked for other alternatives.

I started off holding her with a towel, so if she bit me, I could still hold her. I have seen some people suggest gloves, but I steered clear of that, so as not to imprint the association with gloves. With a towel, she can still feel my hands. I gave her treats (usually ferretone) when I would hold her, to associate being held as positive.

When she would bite, I would either hiss at her or blow gently in her face to distract her, as soon as she stopped, I gave her a treat. Gradually, I was able to hold her without the towel.
I also would pet her momentarily when she was sleeping, & sometimes picked her up when she was in a heavy sleep, so as she slowly woke up, I was cradling her.

Since scruffing was not an option, I gave her time outs in a carrier, while the others got to play, if she bit me. 5-10 minutes usually did the trick.

She now is one of the first to come to me to be picked up. Occationally she will grab my hand, when she is really unhappy with something, but does not bite down, & stops as soon as I say no. I don't even have to say it firm.

I have been gradually working on scruffing, & sometimes she gets cranky, but she is geting so much better about that as well. It seemed to be fear triggering her reactions, & as soon as she is reassured, she calms down. I still don't 100% trust her around my face, but she really enjoys being cuddled close to me.

I focused on extra patience & extra love, & let her move forward at her own pace.

The girl I got her from offered to let me bring her back, or extend the trial time, to see if she would work out, but I told her I was gonna keep her & work with her. Part of it may be her bloodlines, but regardless, it's worth the extra effort to work with these special ones, IMO.

Xander is also a bit of a biter & has drawn blood a few times, but he is no where near what Zena was.

I am by no means an expert, & some of this was enlisted from someone near me who rehabilitates aggressive ferrets. The steps I took worked for me, & they may or may not work for someone else.

IMO, it helps to watch the ferret to figure out what may be triggering these reactions, even without knowing the background, then modifying techniques to teach the ferret what you want from it, & what you have to offer it in return.

Sure it can be frustrating sometimes, especially when you have to keep a towel around to stop the bleeding...LOL

There is no ONE way to deal with biters, like I said, each ferret is different & different techniques are going to work differently for each situation.

[josiesmom]

Hi Fire7Chix,

Thanks! Yeah, my Josie girl was practically impossible to scruff too, as is Crystal. Both of them are "whippet" style ferrets- very trim, lithe and sinewy with what seems like practically ZERO extra skin! Both are deaf ferrets and also were born with Panda coloration - wonder if their body type is a genetic thing with Pandas? I know the deafness factor is.

While I cannot scruff them I can put them in a harness hold and dangle them until they give in with a yawn and a sigh. - That is part of the key to getting them to submit to human hands- getting them past their mindset of argue and fight or bite to, "Oh well, I quit."

they do this with each other all the time- as long as their opponent fights back, they don't give up, but when one has had enough they go limp.

So if the ferret bites us and we "go limp" the "game" is over, and they let go.

If we scruff or harness hold them until they go limp - then they've let us know they give in. Time to give them reassurance with a gentle cuddle or a release from our grasp.

Towels, t-shirts are great for "swaddling". You can wrap the ferret up (gently- don't mummify them) and this seems to settle them down as you slowly work your hands into a better hold and eventually peel away the swaddling cloth.

Now this may sound gross to some people, but it seems to work and I think it does because on some level the ferret reverts to "baby kit mode". Do NOT attempt this right off the bat with a biter - only when you can hold them in a settled state of mind and when they are willing to look at you on their own.

When I "kiss" my ferrets I allow them to lap a bit of my saliva. I don't have a cold so its safe. SO far everyone seems to melt into a baby ferret kit, sometimes putting their paws on either side of my chin as they lap.

I'll substitute warm water held in my mouth too. My theory is that typically ferrets sold in pet shops have been forcibly weaned and this brings back familiar sensations to them.

Recently I was holding Roman in a harness hold, bare handed with his back against my chest and I was crooning to him. He looked up at me and I allowed a small dribble for him. He lapped it up and looked for more. I obliged. I set him down as he was still looking for more.

I don't trust him yet either around my face, but I take this as a good sign. He was calm in my grasp and NOT trying to bite and was looking to me for some sort of security. I'll give him some more time to "remember" this calm safe moment and try again.

Speaking of security- often times ferrets feel the need to protect their territory, so taking them into a different room of the house, or even outdoors can trigger their need to look to you for security. This method helped with Bugsy, although I wouldn't classify him as a severe biter he was not very comfortable being held and would squirm quite a bit. Taking him out doors was a new experience for him and he was soon clinging to me for safety. When he stopped shivering and began looking around I let him down, but he never strayed fr from my feet (yes he was harnessed and leashed).

The outdoors experience helped with Fizzle too. She was especially appreciative when a hawk flew overhead and she could find safety in my arms! I've taken them to stores and this too helps them look to me for security.

Anytime you work with a previously traumatized animal,or one that is confused, or doesn't know what is expected the main thing to remember is to NOT get caught up in a timeline, or try for a quick fix - if you go at it from the standpoint of having all the time in the world to allow them to get over their fears, then you'll be amazed at how quickly they begin responding!

Thanks again for sharing!
Cheers,
Kim

[Forum Administrator]

Yeah I do the "spit feeding" thing too Its nasty, but its a great way to bond (if you arent sick, like Kim mentioned). I've found that if I take a swig of some warm chicken broth then the let them lap that up they really like it. Fugue follows me around like "mommy I want some broth!" and he always gives me kisses (because he wants the broth).

Might sound nasty, might sound weird, but hey, its a great way to bond!

[pear2apple]

Apple is a biter. Always has been, since I got him back in February. He has only drawn blood once on me, and twice on my boyfriend. My boyfriend will not stop moving, he always pulls back when Apple nips, and this becomes a bite and next thing you know, Apple thinks its a game! So a word of advice, if you jump around a lot, the ferret will think you are playing game, and they usually play with their mouths, so your foot or whatever body part has become the target.

Apple bites during play, as an invite to play, and also just if you walk by. I don't know his past or what provokes him to keep biting even though I scruff and hiss and drag him every time. I'm going to continue doing that, and then start giving him treats during playtime when he does play nicely.

I also scoop him up during sleep so that we can cuddle together while he sleeps, and when he wakes up I quickly give him a kiss on his face/neck before placing him back in his cage. I'm not worried he will bite me, I just know he's either looking for water or his litter box.

I also use his kibble to coax him into eating while standing or laying on me. I sit on the couch, and he jumps up next to me and eats out of my hand for awhile. Then I slowly move my hand slightly out of reach so he has to get closer to me to eat it. I stopped doing this for awhile when I got really busy with work. But now I'm going to get back into doing it because I know it really helped with our bond.

Another thing, he has never bitten my face. I've give him tons of opportunity to take chomps out of my lips, but he's not interested. Thank goodness! That is one worry I don't have. But he bites my wrist, then shakes for play. Then I scruff and we continue to play.

Whatever method you choose, you must be consistent and always use that method. The scruff, hiss, drag, NO BITE! is what I use. Every single time. Sometimes going on 5 times in a row, and if his bites become harder, he goes into time out in his carrier. I put him in, no toys or anything. Its in another room, and then I face it towards a wall so he sees nothing and hears nothing. I think once I get the other ferret, time out will be moved in plain sight of us playing so he knows that its unexceptable. But just me here, and I don't think he will learn. Anyway, be consistent. Try Fooey, Drs Foster and Smith website. Its $5 and I'm using it now. Its working ok. I've only had it a few days, so not really enough time to tell if its worked yet. It tastes really bad though!!

Good luck! I feel your pain!

[ann]

My ferret Fonzie USE to be a biter, When I first got him he use to bite, and not let go! A few times even drew blood, I was actually afraid of him at first!
I got some gloves, and started handling him, He didnt like the gloves at all! Every time he bite me, Id scruff him, and gently pull him across the floor, and than let go, and if he came back to bite, Id repeat this, He eventually caught on.
I also got him some chew toys WHICH helped alot. Foamy fries, and those chew weasel things.
Once he stopped biting so much I started handling him without gloves, and sprayed biter apple stuff on my fingers. He nipped a few times, and let go right away, but I still scruffed him, and drug him along the floor.
He learned not to bite in a month!!!

[josiesmom]

Yesterday I took Roman's collar off- seems the boy has grown some (just what I need- for him to get even bigger AND stronger) and it was more snug than I care for. I intended to just readjust it and put it back on.

But as I was adjusting it I felt this teensy prickly spot where the nylon had been melted. I'll fix that later with a hot iron. In the meantime I decided to experiment and leave the collar off.

Roman seemed transformed! He actually seemed LOST! Don't know if he got so acclimated to the bell that he heard it as part of him or what, but he wandered about the house sniffing and searching like he'd just got here!

Oh dear- please tell me we don't have to start back at square one again!

But as the hours passed he seemed more himself. As usual I scooped him up (with gloves on - because he seems more comfortable with gloved hands) cuddled him, stroked, massaged and generally loved on him.

I've been cradling him upside down so he can see my face quite a bit. Then placing him across my shoulders and hugging him with my head. Then back down into the cradle position again. Ever mindful of my pierced nose and eyebrow he delivered that first week, I still will kiss him on the back of the neck (gently blocking him from a turn around with my hand). And of course I do the raspberry thing on his belly and the bzzz bzzzz bzzz against his ribs - in pleasing tones of course.

When I set him down I let him slither out of my grasp so he can feel my hands the full length of his body.

Another thing I do, some folks may think is gross- but I don't care- it WORKS to deepen the bond for some reason; my theory is that it helps offer some security to the ferrets that have been forcibly weaned at an early age; I let the ferrets lap warm water from my mouth or even my saliva. Every one of my ferrets do this- the only one who never did was Fozzy- but he didn't need security - he was comfortable with who he was and wherever he was( probably actually pretty much in an insulinomic stupor most of the time).

So this week while Roman has been cradled upside down I've literally "drooled" on him or on my shirt and he responded as everyone else has so far- he lapped up the warm fluid!

So of course I have hesitatingly allowed him to get closer and closer to my face as long as he remains interested in the warm dribble. Guess I could coin this technique, "Dribbling your ferret!"

This morning after spending the night collarless Roman climbed up on the sofa, which woke me up. And he stayed near me as I sat up. I gloved my hands, scooped him up, welcomed him to the new day and cradled him upside down. He seemed especially relaxed so I bent my head nearer to him, he stretched his nose upwards, parting his lips, I could see the white fangs glistening then he KISSED ME! I allowed him a couple dribbles and not wanting to push my luck and always end on a good note, I put him back down on the sofa!

YES, all my facial features are still intact!

I let him wander a bit across the sofa, waited until my dry mouth revived ( heck YES I was scared he was going to staple my lips) and I actually repeated the WHOLE scene! Still he left me intact!

I got a kiss! I got a smacker! I got a smooch!


I love my Romanator!