Kenai had the seedy poop, not Koda. Today his poop is a million trillion times better. I will add some Reishi to the food for both of them. Koda's poops are a bit seedy, but otherwise pretty good. Kenai's are seedy with a little mucous, and kind of dark. But not bad. Only a tiny bit worse than they were before he had the foam-poop episode and improving significantly throughout the course of the day. I refilled on ground lamb (I need to find a better source of the stuff....) so they will both get soupies again tonight. I jsut did a serious cage cleaning. That ranked up there in one of the smelliest things I have smelled. Even worse than iguana poop which is foul. Maybe jsut bc I have a very sensitive sense of smell. I had my air purifier running all day. Kenai had multiple accidents, and even before that...man....everything smells that was in the cage. Bedding, litter box, toys, hammocks, cage trays, the ferrets....like smelled as in you could smell it from across the room kind of smelled. It was disgusting. I scrubbed everything out with vinegar and put them both on the bottom level. Because the hammocks and everything need washing, they have only one blanket - but it is a big cozy one. I can't put shelves in there until I was the shelf covers (I have the older shelves I believe) which means I can't open up the top level either. All the toys were removed and I will put in some clean ones for tonight, the rest I will have to wash tomorrow or Friday. Then both ferrets got thorough baths. I used 2 different soaps though, because I ran out of the one, so they smell different. There is definitely some scuffling going on, but nothing unmanageable so far. They are both going nutso after their bath! haha
Koda's appetite seemed to be better this morning. He ate a lot more of the soupies. I am about to go make some more so we will see if he is still feeling hungry. He would only eat it if I fed it to him still though. I could have left it in the cage, but I didn't want it spilling. I fed him most of it and then put the container in the cage and he licked it mostly clean, so that is good. They will both get lamb-pumpkin soup tonight.
Post by mustelidmusk on Dec 9, 2010 9:19:28 GMT -5
Are the poops sitill white?
There a couple of things you can try.... 1. get fecals done to determine if antibiotics may be needed foamy sticking poos suggest bacteria. If you have seen some improvement in the poops with reishi, the immune systems my be benefiting from the immune properties 2. Since you may not have time and you're under pressure, you may want to consider trying the homeopathic poop protocol, which is stickied. I normally do not recommend this without having a fecal done and knowing that blood work is fine, etc. But I do know that one round of the protocol won't hurt. You can use laxatone without the colloidal for a milder treatment. The get some probiotics (the preferably the refrigerated kind) and mix some into the soup after the treatment. This may help with bacterial overgrowth. If you do this once now, do it again before you leave for your trip.
Keep up with the reishi, fiber, and pacrceatic enzymes n the food in slightly smaller does that before. You may want to rotate away from lamb for a while. Make changes slowly. 3. While you are gone, have your roommate provide freeze-dried raw daily.
4. Contact your room mate daily. Your room mate may change her mind about feeding mice if Koda stops eating and starts drop pn a lot of weight.
5. Provide your vets contact info when you leave. Call your vet to find out if any of the techs. do animal sitting/would be willing to help with "Plan B" in case things start getting outta control for your room mate. Ye, this could get expensive, but if you can line up "plan B" in advance, you'll be able to enjoy your holiday with a back-up plan in your back pocket, Been there, done that.
I thought I mentioned the poops had changed? Sorry if not, a lot on my mind! haha No they are not still white, Kenai's poops are almost normal again. Both of them right now have seedy poops, with a little bit of mucous, but not too bad really. Definitely on the "good" end of Koda's poop scale. Kenai has not had a non-seedy poop since switching to raw, so I think his system is still just adjusting. I am having a really hard time finding any good probios here though. None for ferrets, and only limited ones for cats and dogs. Would any cat probio work? The problem is is that even most of the cat probios are like Cat "something or other specialized." Like cat joint health and probio, or something along those lines. If I find just a regular cat probiotic, would that work? I also have human grade probios with acidophilus, but I am sure we have different gut bacteria so not sure if that would be good... Also, I have these for my iguana... www.reptileuv.com/reptile-uv-probiotic-for-reptiles.php Probably can't use those either. Thought I'd ask though since I have them!
When is it ok to try new foods? Do I have to totally restabilize Koda each time? Like I would like to try say turkey pr something, but I would not say he is totally stabilized again as his poops are a not seedy and mucousy. Not a ton of mucous, just a bit of a slime layer.
Ok, so as you saw from the pics of the poop while I was gone The boys seemed to be having ok poops. They were on a diet of ground, commercial raw with a different fod every 2 days, and mice every 3 days. Varying amounts of flax and reishi in the ground, and pumpkin daily. Then when I got back I gave them mice, some of the commercial ground I had left over - pheasant I believe - and their poops seemed ok but in the hassle of unpacking and some serious headaches, I didn't look too closely. Then the last few meals they got chicken hearts. Well, they are now both pooping black mucous again! I think it is Probably safe to say that they are both at Least sensitive to chicken, maybe allergic? I am hoping there is a chance as well that it is at least partly due from the stress and change again of me returning after my trip. *crosses fingers* However, say it is the chicken that they can't have - and it seems to be Kenai as much as Koda when the chicken is involved at least as I personally witnessed him poop disgustingness. If that is the case, then the sources of whole meat and bones is very limited. When I left they would eat no raw lamb, and I am afraid to try pork or beef - I still intend to though! Cornish Game Hen is still an unknown, and it is $3 a hen here. Mice I have but not enough to be the main diet. Rats are expensive, but can be bought (and I intend to add them into the diet rotation). BUT, all that aside, say that I end up (and it is looking like this may work best) having to have a diet of primarily commercial ground raw. I am concerned about the effects of this, on their jaws and teeth. I want their jaws kept strong for killing and eating whole prey, and I want their teeth kept clean - without having to take them to the vet for cleanings! (And without having to brush them myself would be nice haha). So I want wondering what the best way to go about that is. I need to restock meat soon, but before I do I kind of want a game plan if that makes sense, on where to start again from here.
If I feed mostly commercial ground, I know they are getting a good variety of meats, as well as bone (ground bone) and organs (liver). I also could still add in chicken parts say here and there. I remember last time they did worse with hearts, and better with just liver and wings so I will give that a try. I picked up some wings tonight and put them in there whole. It was too late to chop them with my noisy Ulu (it's loud haha) so I put them in whole. Hopefully they will eat them as Kenai hadn't yet gotten to whole bones (but did eat bone chunks) when I left, and Koda has not had them in a bit either. But if I want their teeth cleaned, then HOW OFTEN per week do they need whole chunks and bones?
Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 5, 2011 10:25:28 GMT -5
Organ meats fed separately do produce nasty poops in a LOT of ferrets. The organ meats have a higher blood content and are very rich. So, this may not be chicken as much as organ meats being difficult to digest (especially when organs are not mixed in with ground flesh/bone).
You may find that chicken works OK here and there, but it works best in ground form and/or if the organs are chopped into small bits and given sparingly.
JUST chicken wing (and pumpkin) makes their poop orange and mucousy. Hmm....so I think the heart gives the dark color, and the chicken gives the muscousy-ness. I will have to try some enzymes next on the chicken. Tonight though they get micies!
Ok so I promised an update. I tried beef and first I did a tiny bit of ground beef mixed in with cubed chicken breast, Pumpkin, flax, and some reishi (and I believe the pancreatin as well). Well THAT led to yucky poops galore. Tried again with JUST ground beef, as well as every supplement I have almost: pancreatin, reishi, probios, pumpkin, flax. The poops were not too shabby. Continued with that and the next day Koda had flat out diarrhea. Like the Runniest I have seen yet. There was a bit of seedy, liquidy stuff in the middle with some mucousiness, and the rest was feces-water. Pork he, by some miracle, seems to be okay with! Yaaay! AND Kenai did okay on it this time around as well! I seem to be able to keep the poops relatively stable by just switching out the food every few days, and supplementing with the more difficult ones. I think beef will have to be either cut or severely limited. Chicken is ok for now but Must be limited. It seems like anything will give him a minor flare up if he eats it for more than a few days in a row, so I am just trying to keep it varied.
I want to do a gut cleaning with the probios via the poop protocol as well and see if that helps him a bit.
Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 18, 2011 10:30:23 GMT -5
Sounds like you're getting the hang of what Koda needs. Like I said, you will be the expert on what Koda needs. Now you understand why this takes TIME to figure out and why the biopsy is kind of a waste of money --- even if you can get a correct diagnosis on IBD, you still have to figure everything out by trial and error. Most vets will pile on the antibiotics (which is a necessary part of the initial treatment & "diagnosis") and follow up with prednisone, (which may be necessary). They then recommend a kibble diet, which may help in some instances.
The supplements tend to be pretty effective, especially once you begin to understand what foods cause a little/a lot of trouble, whether or not slow rotation versus fast rotation is required, etc. Many IBD ferts required slow rotation. Koda seems to different with this aspect of feeding. You'll get even better with this over time. IBD is different in every ferret out there.
Thanks Jennifer! I NEVER could have done it all without your help!!!! It is soo much to take in and to juggle. It is a relief to finally feel like I am starting to get a handle on things, but I definitely am not in the 100% yet - there will always be more to learn and adjust!
Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 19, 2011 10:39:52 GMT -5
With IBD , there's no such thing as 100%, and things can change over time.
There are some other things we can try as well, but just getting a handle on the stuff you have now is s good start.
We haven't really looked into more serious probiotics. Stuff can see overwhelming with all the different things you can try. Nor have we looked into some of the "lighter enzymes". There are also some nutritional supplements that may help with the gut.
Once you feel you have some degree of understanding on how to feed Koda and keep a flare-up from becoming a big issue that persists for weeks, we can look into nutritional support for the gut lining.
Post by ferretdroogies on Jan 26, 2011 17:42:45 GMT -5
Jennifer and Heather... what do you think about these?
I use the organic pet superfood mushroom supplement (the super immunity one), so I know it's a good brand (and it's in powder form which is convenient and economical.) They make one just for digestion (it has mushrooms that help digestion and nothing else). Also, they LOVE the taste (especially Pan who licks the lid every time I make their food) olivegreendog.com/organic-pet-superfood-digestion.html