tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 4, 2010 13:14:32 GMT -5
I have a big problem. I have 3 jills from 2007 that lost their mother when they were 5½ week old,gues that is part of the problem. They are very hard to put together with other ferrets. They were alone until they were 2 years old. Then I got Firefox. She got beaten until she was "naked" on her neck but was so tough psycical that she "didnt care". After some hard months she was a part of the family and they liked her. now I have 2 Kits from my litter I want to keep. Birdie is nervous but dont beat them so they do not get to scared. Myca is dominating and beat them and she makes marks in their necks but they arent scared just "sad". Those 2 and the 3 kits I have left home can be"out" at the same time. (my ferret dont have cages i split my flat in 2 or 3). The kits have learned to keep their distance even though they want to be friends. So that part is not the problem even though i is rough. Now comes the big problem: Yoda. She is scared very scared. She wags her tail and shakes A LOT. Even when they are in a box or something she tryes to attack the box. When they by accident meet each other she tries to take their throat or shakes them with all her power. The kits is shitting in fear and screaming for their lifes. I have had ferret since 2001 so I know they can sound dramatic but this is serious. Even thoug Yoda is totally "in power" she will still shake her body long after we have saved the kits. She dont seem angry but scared We dont want to bring her into the others before the last kit is moved. The mother and father dont mix up when the kits got beaten so they dont ad more stress to the situation. The kits are now 12 weeks and weigh 765,839 and 902. Yoda only weight 702. They kits have the size but just takes the beating. They have startet to "attack back" against Birdie and very little against Myca but only a little. I use a product called Zylkene for my "wild cats"(Her mother was wild and I got her from outside when she was 4-5 months) when she have a stressed periode with great succes. I have considered to use it for Yoda and the 2 last kits when they have to be put together. I normally open the pills so I can easily dose it to ferret weight. Do any of you have expirience with zylkene and scared ferrets or have other ideas to make her realize the kits arent so scary even thoug they are big.
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 4, 2010 19:17:50 GMT -5
I've not had experience with Zylkene at all, but I do have a ferret like Yoda. She absolutely will not accept other ferrets who are not in her group, and she does that "shaking" as well. To me, it seems to be stress related. All her senses are so heightened when she goes on the attack, that she just vibrates. I KNOW it isn't fear related with her. I've tried Bach's rescue remedy, as well as a mix of other flower essences, but nothing has made any difference. She literally will try to kill the ferrets in the other group. My only solution that has worked in this case is to have two different playgroups.
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tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 5, 2010 5:46:15 GMT -5
In the beginning i throught Yoga was a domination BIIIB (didnt realized that word was cencured )...but she get very unsecure after behaving by that and seak safety, her sister Myca that is "truly" domination react more calm and like "dont tell me what to do is it a business between me and the other" I try the Zylkene. Have to 5 days in one pill. So try 3 pills then the kits are older and could hope it have helped a little bit with her. I will try after 1,2 and 3 weeks to let them meet and see if there are any change. Or else I try the bachs I will write the results here so you can see if it helps for ferret
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 5, 2010 10:33:38 GMT -5
With the Bach's, you can not only put it in their water, but also rub a drop on their ear flaps for a faster reaction. I still use it that way for my elderly senile cat when he has one of his "anxiety" attacks. But yeah- let us know how it goes with the Zylkene! And good luck.
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tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 6, 2010 19:21:47 GMT -5
She seems less stressed already Tryed a little safe test. My boyfriend took Yoda and I took one of the kits. We hold them both and let Yoda see the kit and smell to it. She didnt wag her tail, raised her hair(dont knot what you call this), didnt shake her body in fear or agresivnes and seemed more relaxed and curius They were hold so they COULDN´T bite each other. The kit also took it relaxed. So it is a huge change already We didn´t let her say hi without us hold´em. I will continue the zylkene and hope is wasn´t just a luck but for real.
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Post by Heather on Sept 6, 2010 19:44:40 GMT -5
We will keep our fingers crossed that this all works out for you. I really understand how important this is. ciao
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tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 22, 2010 10:50:55 GMT -5
From the 7.-13 i didn´t had more pills had to use them for my cats so stopped the project that week now i have 100 pills each to 15 kg animal I decided to give her pills to 2 kg to see if that worked. It did Yesterday she for the first time saw the kits and didnt shaked her body or puffed her tail She attacked them but much more calm and "normal" and not extreme fear sign they still use their anal gland and shout of each other(you have to love ferret ). But no panic pooing, shaking the body in fear, no puff tail. And looks like she go for the neck not the throat anymore. She kits are still sad but not scared. Myca get dosis to 1 kg and she dont attact to bite, she use the"psyco-locical" terror much more.. you know go sideward toward them to show she could bite and the kits get unsecure Yoda LOVES the zylkene. She lay on her back and drink while she is puffing her feets againt me and closing her eyes. She get totally kit again quite visual she lost her mother to early. With the zylkene was a training cd with sound of firework and stuff like that. When I play the firework she start the shakin and ran over and want us to protect her. Exacly the same way she reacted while attacking the kits earlyer. So I now know for sure she was scared. The kits are now bigger than her so can be the reason. but think zylkene help her a lot. The kits still use the kits cry for help and she was evil sound. So dont think the size matter.
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Post by Heather on Sept 22, 2010 12:45:49 GMT -5
Sounds like you're making progress. That's great. Keep it up and keep us posted. I will be interested to see if you will continue to see progress and that they will learn to live peaceably together. ciao
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tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 22, 2010 19:02:26 GMT -5
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tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 24, 2010 15:12:10 GMT -5
last 2 days she have only made 3-4 attact a day. the attacs dont scare the kits anymore and she seems relaxed when i stop her. So from today i try to use dosis for 1½ kg instead of 2 kg and see if it stil work.
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Post by Heather on Sept 24, 2010 15:46:02 GMT -5
We will keep our fingers crossed for you. I really hope it works. I may look into this stuff myself as I'm a little tired of juggling 4 different playtimes. ciao
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tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 24, 2010 16:13:30 GMT -5
a person on the danish forum found one scientific article about it. she posted this part of it Effect of alpha-casozepine (Zylkene) on anxiety in cats (Claude Beata, DVMa, Edith Beaumont-Graff, DVMb, Victoria Coll, DVMc, Jacques Cordel, DVMd, Muriel Marion, DVMe, Nicolas Massal, DVMf, Nathalie Marlois, DVMg, Jerome Tauzin, PhDh)
This study provides evidence for the efficacy of alphacasozepine in the management of cats exhibiting anxiety in socially stressful conditions. Cats treated with alpha-casozepine sought contact with both familiar and unfamiliar people and showed improvement in fearful behaviors and in their associated autonomic signs. No differences were seen in aggressive behaviors, but the study was relatively small. Behavior modification seemed to help manage or avoid the aggression, based on the data from both treatment groups. Alpha-casozepine is a dairy ingredient that is lactose free. It has a GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) status and, as a natural product, it is not considered a drug in Europe. This is a desirable profile for many owners. None of the side effects occasionally reported for benzodiazepines, such as disinhibition of aggression, was seen in this study. I use zylkene like this: 75 mg pills is open and the powder is mixed with 0,5 ml water. 15 mg powder(0,1 ml fluid) to each kg animal as standard dosis. I used that dosis to Myca that as very domination and 30(0,2 ml fluid) to Yoda that was scared. It worked. They say it normally start to work after 3-4 days with cats(and that is true with my cats) I buyed 225 mg pills because it was cheaper. You then have to shake the disposable syringe(with out neddle and 1 mg it is easyer to handle) before use it. Dont know how long it is durable mixed with water. Please let me know how it work to your scared and your domination ferrets and what dosis you use. the more that try it the more we know. I have stopped Myca on the zylkene again she is still mischievous but the kits are not scared anymore. So that was a succes.
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tzari
Gnawing on bones
Posts: 91
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Post by tzari on Sept 28, 2010 10:57:01 GMT -5
The 27th we vent down to 1 kg dosis. tomorrow i try ½ kg dosis. She isnt scared anymore only tease full now and make the "laught" sound now(not the almost semilar angry sound) she think it is funny to tease them now. The attacks are less than ½ minute so she just want them to "cry" now evil ferret right It is 4-5 times a day she tease a kit and she stop after that ½ minute and find something or someone else to play with. That also why i try ½ kg dosis from tomorrow
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 28, 2010 20:52:32 GMT -5
That sounds wonderful! She really has come a long way
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Post by Heather on Sept 28, 2010 22:48:58 GMT -5
That is such great news. Please continue updating. This is fantastic ciao
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