Does this make anyone else mad?

[joolissa]

Not sure if this should be here or in Odds & Ends (since it doesn't directly reference ferrets), but I stumbled across this book in an amazon search. I took a look at it because I thought it might be interesting, but instead it has me fuming! I mean no disrespect to vegetarians or vegans, especially since I know we have a few on here who do feed raw, but this is even worse than kibble in my opinion.



Obligate Carnivore: Cats, Dogs, and What it Really Means to be Vegan
tiny.cc/vvuhc

Here's the description:
Not only provides a definitive answer to the controversial question "Can cats be vegan?" (they can!), but through examples, philosophical musings, and personal stories, explains why those in the ethical vegan community MUST feed their cats and dogs a vegan diet!

Discusses relative merits of meat vs. vegan diets from a number of perspectives (ethical, health, environmental, etc.), and gives practical advice for making a successful switch for your cats and dogs.



Reading the longer review and some of the customer reviews was even worse. There were a few people who stood up and said it was "dangerously misguided", but they were the minority. Am I missing something or do you guys agree? Have you ever come across this type of thinking "in person"?

Also, this makes me think, are there any recommended reading books for raw feeding a prey based model/whole prey diet to your pets? I breezed through ferrets for dummies and wasn't really impressed. I'd love to pick up a few more books on raw feeding and natural pet/ferret care.
- Jools

[Heather]

It is quite an aggressive movement. We actually had a member come on board the raw list that I help moderate. I suppose you could say rather "troll-like" Fortunately for us moderation until you prove that you aren't trouble is the mode for the day and this person got themselves kicked off. Barring that form of trouble I've actually had an encounter of what this type of diet can do to a carnivore. A baby ferret lost his life because a very gentle couple believed the message in their website and a book. This little ferret starved to death. He lived to be about 7 months, his last few months were a horrible slow death as this couple never informed the vet that they were feeding this little boy a vegan diet. They gave him fresh veggies and fruits, all organic, no expense overlooked. They paid for the best vet services but nothing could save that poor little boy. He died of total organ failure. Yes, carnivores can be fed a vegan diet
I'm afraid I don't know of too many good raw feeding books. Some older ones that are no longer followed and are too dated to safely use. Most of the true information is shared on line, on the raw lists by those that fight in the trenches so to speak Good luck on your quest.
ciao

[rarnold18]

I've never came across this in person but I've read posts elsewhere promoting a vegan/veggie diet for cats and dogs...it infuriated me... why try to change what an animal is? I don't get it, if you do the proper research you find that cats, dogs, fuzz, need animal protien...ugh!

[joolissa]

That's so sad. What's amazing to me is that obviously, from the reviews, the cats and others are not dying outright shortly after starting. I don't know how they can possibly hang on, let along look "better" for as long as some of the reviews state. Poor things. Maybe technology is advancing so they can extract just enough nutrients from bad ingredients to keep the critters surviving for a time. I hope that the fact it doesn't mention ferrets will keep ferret owners away from it.

I will definitely be investing in more books on natural pet care and natural stuff in general. I'm sure some of them will make it to christmas lists (especially some of the more expensive ones! lol) and some I will buy myself. I did a search in my library's online database, but only found one or two and they were older. I'll be sure to report any good ones I find though!

Once I get something in my head I generally want to run with it and it never goes away, which is rather unfortunate sometimes. Already in my research into raw feeding I'm convinced and want to switch my cats over as soon as I can and want to shout it at the whole pet world that ferrets and cats and dogs need meat! Haha. I'm told I care way too much about things.
- Jools

[Heather]

If you want a good holistic care book (this isn't a raw feeding book but it is pro raw) is Homeopathic Care for Cats and Dogs, small doses for small animals by Don Hamilton, DVM. I've found it immeasurably helpful. I know it's dog and cat specific but it can be applied to ferrets too. The general information that he imparts is also very interesting.
Good luck on your journey, it's not an easy one but it's truly enlightening .
ciao

[joolissa]

Hi
I found that one on Amazon and there is a new edition coming out in September. I am thinking of pre-ordering it. Here's the link incase anyone else wants to check it out: tiny.cc/o0pzw
It would be interesting to see the differences between the two editions.
- Jools

[Heather]

Thank you for the update. I will have to check up on it to see if he's come up with any different ideas. That's the thing with the whole natural feeding and care thing. It's always changing and as with many things, it's sometimes difficult to stay up on what's the newest treatments.
ciao

[zoologist]

I don't feel it's right for people to push their views on any one else. Fantastic for you if you'd like to be a vegan but please don't force your children, friends and especially pets into a lifestyle change they may not be able to tolerate.

^^^ that's how I feel

[horse656]

thats how i feel about it too zoologist.

i don't like it when people say they can feed their cats and dogs a vegetarian diet and they are perfectly healthy and healthier than then have ever been on vegetarian
erm... your pets are carnivores. why would you want to kill them with plants.

i don't care if people do it, they can choose what to eat and how to eat whatever they want, but the animals don't have a choice. poor babies.

[Emilee]

I'm a vegan so I have seen quite a few vegans who feed their carnivores vegan diets. I go crazy on them each and every time. They claim their vet is okay with it (because, you know, every single vet is totally educated on pet diets) and that until they find research saying that a vegan diet is not good for their pet, they will continue. HELLOOO there is information PLASTERED all over the internet screaming how bad vegan diets are for carnivores.

I personally believe it is crueler to feed an animal a diet not meant for them than it is to feed them meat which kills animals. I always try to get my ferrets' meat from local sources where I know that the animals are treated humanely. The animals do not have a choice in their diet and some people can't get that through their heads. I'm not going to deprive my animals of a healthy diet just because I have made my own personal diet choice.

Sorry if that's a bit intense, but this stuff drives me insane.

[Heather]

Not, intense, necessary, Emilee. The furkids need all the support they can get. This vegan or veggie type food for dogs and cats is a strong movement and is supported by the humane society in the US. They've created a veggan type kibble that they support. It often looks better coming from a vegan, than coming from one of us "carnivores" . A vegan friend and I had a long conversation about this when she considered putting her dog on a vegan diet....I must have been convincing because she did switch her dog...to a totally raw carnivores diet. I will take my wins where I can, one person at a time.
ciao

[joolissa]

I agree with you. Not too intense for me!

[joolissa]

Wait... the HSUS supports vegan diets for carnivores? Seriously?

[Heather]

Yes, unfortunately. I might actually be able to find the post, it was done on another list and there was actual references back to their site. So you may be able to find it. I can't remember the name of the product off hand
ciao

[Emilee]

Aug 12, 2010 14:37:16 GMT -5 @joolissa said:

Wait... the HSUS supports vegan diets for carnivores? Seriously?

I agree, that really surprised me when I just read it....