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Post by konotashi on Jul 19, 2010 5:01:31 GMT -5
I found a pet store that sells raw diets (I think it's Nature's Variety?) and I want to start getting this for Tesla. I save a lot of money on the chickens I buy and everything (I always get them when they go on clearance), but even then, a lot of what I buy goes to waste. So I think this will be more beneficial for him, won't be wasted money, and not to mention easier. Should I get the kind for cats for him? I think that's what I should get, given they're carnivores and dogs are omnivores. Just wanted to double check before I bought any, though.
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Post by Heather on Jul 19, 2010 16:02:22 GMT -5
Yes, but I say that with a caveat. I don't know about the commercial food that you're talking about. Some have lots of veggies even for the cats. Check that out. The other thing is the company that I buy from actually provides whole meat pkgs of just meat and organ grind for dogs. There's nothing else in it. It's fantastic but it specifically says the product is for dogs. So, read your labels, check that out. If you like post the list here and we will help you out . There was one variety that sounded good until you realized that there were tons of herbs that shouldn't be used by ferrets (cats neither but that's a different ballgame ) ciao
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Post by maddiesmom on Jul 19, 2010 17:15:26 GMT -5
The ingredients are decent. For both the dogs and cats, they have a little bit too much veggies & fruits for my likes, not high enough in protein, but I'm Very pro prey model But there are MUCH MUCH worse kibbles out there so I'm all for that www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/cat/chickenI don't know much about the rosemary, sage, & all those fruits/veggies, etc with the ferrets. I'm very curious to know how much sugar is in this product, too. Anyway, I hope that helps p.s - Dogs Are Essentially Carnivores of course, they have more of an omnivorous ability than say, cats or ferrets. They do have the ability to eat a remarkably diverse diet. But their bodies are optimized for eating meat. "Dogs Don’t Grind… They Chop" www.rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html
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Post by sherrylynne on Jul 19, 2010 18:34:43 GMT -5
When I feed premade(I have to do this two or three times a week, since one of mine will avoid bone if she can!), I use Nature's Variety Raw. Yes, it has 5% veg matter, but that will more or less replace the undigestibles from a whole prey diet. And I think 5% is acceptable.
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Post by Heather on Jul 19, 2010 22:07:43 GMT -5
I agree, with 5% veggie matter I wouldn't worry. I'm presently treating an insulinoma ferret (with the supervision of my vet) and veggie matter is part of her diet (actually blueberries are the fruit of choice, just a little probably about 5%). So far, we've not had to resort to kibbles. If my ferret wasn't insulinoma I would have some concern about apples (very high sugar), ground flaxseed....they can't process this and it is a high allergen type food with carnivores...causes itchies. That being said some can use it. Spinach is not a good veggie for any pet (good for humans though ) I don't like the use of honey, but it's probably trace by the time it's all said and done. Rosemary is a diuretic, so if you're seeing increased litter box use or drinking be careful. So that being said....watch your little one and if nothing happens...good to go. This is probably better than kibble by a long shot ciao
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Post by konotashi on Jul 20, 2010 1:38:37 GMT -5
It was the Instinct: Nature's Variety that I got. It says it's for cats and dogs both, so I went ahead and got it for him. He seemed to like it.
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jul 20, 2010 2:51:50 GMT -5
I use the Nature's Variety Raw Medallions for my boys. Fugue, has presistant GI issues and can't eat a prey model diet because his stools are liquid no matter how much bone I add. He needs that 5% veggie matter in the NV to help him have formed stools. I am very pleased with the NV, but I recommend doing as I do and supplementing with raw meaty bones. I did not do this initially when I switched the boys over and their teeth got horribly grimey. Even after supplementing with RMBS for over a month, I still had to take them in for a dental cleaning. So if you do go with the NV raw, ALWAYS add 1 whole RMB per day to keep those teeth sparkling. Another thing I do is I add a few drops of a ferret multivitamen to the product, just to supplement. Rotate between all the flavors they offer, add a supplement, and add daily RMBS and voila! You are good to go!
You say you got the NV Instinct. Is that the Kibble/Canned food?
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jul 20, 2010 3:00:05 GMT -5
The ingredients are decent. For both the dogs and cats, they have a little bit too much veggies & fruits for my likes, not high enough in protein, but I'm Very pro prey model But there are MUCH MUCH worse kibbles out there so I'm all for that www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/cat/chickenIt is only "13%" protein because there is moisture in the product. On a DM (Dry Matter) basis, the product contains 41% protein. IMO the ideal protein percentage for a ferret is that which is found in an adult mouse (roughly 56.9% to a mositure content of 67.4%....I mention moisture content because IMO a high protein content NEEDS to be balanced with a high moisture content to avoid stressing the kidneys). So NV is a little low in the protein department, but this is another reason to supplement with fresh, whole RMBS. Add some protein. Problem solved.
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Post by konotashi on Jul 21, 2010 16:14:46 GMT -5
It's the medallions. I think Instinct makes them though. So I should still offer him bones? I think they sell turkey necks and other bones where and stuff where I bought it, so I'll be sure to pick some up.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jul 22, 2010 0:03:14 GMT -5
I've been primarily feeding Nature's Variety Frozen Raw diets for 5 years, and my brats have outstanding bloodwork. 3 of them are almost 5 1/2, and the fourth one is over 4. There needs to be some clarification here on product names. beleive the Natrue's Variety Frozen raw diet has recently aken on the new name of "Instinct Raw" NV also has a kibble line called "Instinct", which used to be called "raw intinct" they dropped the "raw" prefix for their kibbl a long time ago. It was calle raw instinct because they put a spray freeze-dried raw one the kibble after it's baked. Just slightly confusing Regarding the veggies, 5% is less undigestible matter than you get in whole prey once you consider the anount of fur/feathers, bone that passes through the system. The Nature's Variety Frozen Raw is balanced, so there is no need to add bone to the Nature's Variety. If you're feedng your own chicken then your own home-prepared diet will need to be fed in correct proportions of meat/organ/bone. Regarding the perception of "low protein" ....you cannot compare diet percentages unless you convert all compared prodcys to a dry matter basis. What counts is the 95% meat/organ/bone. As far a sugar goes, the ingedients that consitute the veggies, honey, etc are more expensve than the meat - so I don't think sugar is an issue. I had one instance this winter where Tonto's blood sugar was toward the high side, and he was overweight. (He's really piggy) I put him on an exercise program to take soem weight off of him . I fasted my kids for over 24 hours in January to evaluate their metabolism. They were as perky and bratty as ever after the fast. (I DO NOT RECOMMEND FASTING YOUR FERRETS- I do complete bloodwork including a chem panel 4 x per year, so I know my ferrets are very stable since their bloodwork has not changed over the years. All of the holistiv vets I've been to recommend the Nature's Variety if you're going to feed commercial frozen diet. PLEASE BE AWARE that the Feeze-dried raw had some large pumkin seed chunks in it when I tried it years ago. These seed chunks are large enough to cause obstruction in a ferret. So they may have changed the grind on their freeze-dried food. But that's an expensive bag of food to experiment on. I buy the Wysong Archetypal I and Stella and Chewy's for reeze dried raw diets. -jennifer
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jul 23, 2010 16:56:18 GMT -5
Personally, Konotashi, I would recommend going ahead and supplementing daily with RMBS to ensure dental health. From personal experience the patties cause a more accelerated build-up of tarter on the teeth then say, whole prey or a prey model raw diet. Overall I am pleased with this product. Just wish the protein content was a tad higher and that is didnt contribute to tarter build up, but if you supplement with RMBS, problem(s) solved.
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ls84
Going Natural
Posts: 102
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Post by ls84 on Jul 23, 2010 20:41:17 GMT -5
Have you compared the NV to the Stella and Chewys raw? I was under the impression S&C had only 4% veggies so it was a little better? Unless the other ingredients are not as good as NV. I use the freeze dried s&c too, and the cat version has no veggies. I also found a store that sells Natures Advantage, made by Animal Food Services. They are just meat, bone and organs and are in perfect kibble pieces, MUCH cheaper than the Wysong. I think Caseys Hidden Pantry sells them under the old name "beef niblets"
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Post by konotashi on Jul 24, 2010 2:41:30 GMT -5
Do turkey necks count as RMBS? I'll get him whatever he needs to keep his teeth clean, 'cause I know eating that isn't the greatest for his teeth, haha. He's lovin' that stuff though! When he runs out of these, I might have to have him try the rabbit, maybe bison? I'll look up the Stella and Chewy's, but this is the first store that I've found that sells the raw diet, and they only sell NV. But then again, I never really looked.
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Post by Heather on Jul 24, 2010 19:28:08 GMT -5
Yes. Turkey necks are rmb, so are chicken necks, wings. Pork ribblets work really well as rmbs too. Do you realize that gibblets also work to assist to clean teeth and they provide huge jaw workouts too Rabbit is part of a natural diet for ferrets....bison not so much...but they like it anyway ciao
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