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Post by katt on Jul 10, 2010 13:12:12 GMT -5
So My roommate and I are rearranging and upgrading several of our cages, meaning that we have several empty small cages! We have bred mice before, and I would like to give it a shot again. The first time it was pretty much just my roommate doing the breeding. Also, we were only breeding for pinkies bc it was for her baby corn snake. This time I would like to try to raise some of them to adults. We successfully raised a baby hamster she bred to an adult. I will have to post pics, he is the cutest thing ever. I hate hamsters typically, but I LOVE Hamlet! Anyways...sorry. lol I will be starting with a small group. I have a few 10 gallon tanks. I would love any advice you guys have to offer, or plans to get started. I have to count my tanks when I get home and see what space I have. But I THINK I have about 3 10 gallons, and will soon (when momma hamster is gone) have a medium critter keeper, as well as a tiny one and possibly one 14 gallon tank (14 tall, so basically 10 gallon floor space). Here is what I am thinking. Let me know what you think please... I will start with 1 or 2 groups of 2 females (can I do 3 in a 10 gallon?) and one male. I will have a male per tank, and when the first male is done breeding, he will become Koda food. I will leave the male in with the females until I see that a female is pregnant. Then, I will move the pregnant female out until all females eventually are pregnant in their own cage. For this I will use either the extra cages, or I am thinking of this: small (shoebox sized) rubbermaid containers (99 cents each! yay!). When the mice are born, I will take some pinkies (or all if they are being eaten) but primarily leave them all in with the mother. When they are old enough to sex and wean (a few weeks?) I will move all of the females into one tank, and the males into another. They will probably be Koda food relatively quickly so I am not overly concerned about over crowding. Though if it does become an issue I will separate a few per cage and have more cages, or 2 or so per rubbermaid container. I will choose 3-6 females to keep and maybe buy 3-6 more (so that I have a total of 4 or 6 again) and buy a new male/males. Then I will basically do the whole thing over again. Is that a reasonable plan for starters? I will probably start with one tank and see how it goes, then move up to 2. My biggest question is how do I keep the female from eating the babies? Before we had to take them all out almost right away because they were being eaten. Is there a good way to avoid this? I think the prego mice/mom pinkies will be in the bathroom, where it is relatively quiet most of the day. Any tips? Obviously if I have babies and they are being eaten I will just give Koda the pinkies, but I would rather raise them to adulthood first. How long until they can be sexed and weaned, and how long until they are "adult?" Also, what is the best way to sex them when they are that little? Will it just be obvious when they are old enough, or will it still be tough to tell? Thanks!
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Post by katt on Jul 10, 2010 18:23:47 GMT -5
Ok so I have been doing some reading and it sounds like mice do better raising young in a social environment and that it is better to leave the other mice in the cage with the mom/babies. Is this true? Will the other female and/or male not eat the babies, or should I still separate the prego female just to be sure? It would be way easier to not have to separate them, but until today I thought that separating was necessary. (same question for hamsters - I have a male and am thinking about getting another female. Can I keep them together even when the babies are born?) Can mice eat pig food and/or alfalfa pellets? There is a Mill & Feed store in town that sells rabbit (I think), pig, chicken, and horse food. Would any of those work? IT seems like getting a big bag of something like that would be cheaper than the tiny bags of mouse food from the Pet Store...? If they have chew toys, will they be less likely to chew through plastic?
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Post by katt on Jul 11, 2010 17:12:22 GMT -5
Ok well here is What I have so far. 2 females, 1 male. This is the male's temporary home while the girls grow up: there is water in the dish and I will keep it filled and bedding free until I can find a small water bottle. Meet Cosmo, the male: This is the female's home. They will get a wheel in there eventually. Maybe later this week. Meet Shadow, female 1: And female 2 who is either named Cheese or Evie (like in Wall*E) I cant decide lol: And the "rack" set up: They are pretty little but I do not know how old they are. I have a small scale so I might try to weigh them and go by weight instead of age. Anyone know how old Pet Co mice usually are? No one there could tell me. Right now I have the 2 females in the 10 gallon, and the male in a small sterlite. In about 2 weeks I will switch them for a week so that the male won't be introduced to the females. Then I will put the females back into the 10 gallon with the male and wait! Shadow I think is either very docile, or sick. She seems super mellow while the male will not let me get near him if he can avid it, and the albino female will run also. She seems active enough, but doesn't appear to really mind being picked up, and will sit all chill in your hand. I put her on the floor to see if she'd walk and she was moving around fine. I put my hand in front of her and she was very calm - didn't turn around or try to run at all, but just sniffed my hand curiously and stepped onto it. I hope this is her personality and not a sick mouse. If it is I do not think she will become dinner. Cosmo and Cheese/Evie will become dinner for Koda when they are done serving their purpose.
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Post by goingpostal on Jul 11, 2010 20:34:09 GMT -5
You can leave all three, 2 females, 1 male in a 10 gallon and just breed them back to back if you like or keep one male and rotate him through the cages depending on how many mice you need. I keep 2 females per 10 gallon but rotate males as I want large fat babies, better size to babies and quantity to litters this way and have enough females I don't need to breed back to back.
Main thing to prevent them from eating litters is keep it low stress, don't mess around in the tank while they are giving birth or a couple days after, give them hides, quality food and supply of water and you will be fine. Young or new moms might eat their litter, I don't have this problem any more really but don't breed mine until 3 months old and my colony is established. If they eat their litter 2x in a row they get fed off.
You can sex them at about 7-10 days when the fur starts coming in or wait until 3-4 weeks, don't leave male babies in longer than a month max, males are more likely to fight as they get older and mark so I feed them off first. If you are breeding back to back they will drop a litter every 3 weeks so I would wean then. Hog food is ok, most add dog food to it, I get 50 pound bags of Mazuri 6f (you can find a dealer on their website and call to see if they will order it for you), it's about $23 a bag. Also I use wood pellets for bedding with a bit of aspen for nesting, plus egg cartons, paper towel rolls, etc to rip up and hide in.
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Post by katt on Jul 11, 2010 21:21:23 GMT -5
Thanks! To start with he will probably stay in with the females, but eventually I would like to get 2 ten gallons alternating like that. I need to move some stuff around though to have a better place for them. Right now they are in my bathroom bc the place we normally keep our rodents is being inhabited by a large hedgehog cage until the end of the summer (I'm pet sitting lol). When he is gone I will move the breeding tanks so that they have a good day/night cycle (no windows in the bathroom) and keep the weaned babies in sterlites in the bathroom. I will have to look into wood pellets and see if I can find any for pretty cheap. I really like the bright blue carefresh, but it is Expensive! lol I got the mice from PetCo so I have no idea how old they are. I don't want them to eat their babies. What is a good indication of age. I read that if you don't know age about 25g for the females is a good breeding weight? I am not sure what their current weight it, but they seem pretty small to me. I hope they are not super young though - I want to start breeding! lol
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Post by katt on Jul 12, 2010 4:10:44 GMT -5
Well I weighed one of my females tonight. I didn't weight both, but they are similarly sized. Shadow (the brown female) is about 20-23 grams! I was impressed as I expected her to be much lighter! I am still going to wait a few weeks though, see if maybe I can get her to 30 grams. Also, I will probably be getting our hamster a new cage soon, and hopefully our other hamster will magically disappear (my roommate was going to bring her to her work to be adopted) so that will open up another 10 gallon and a critter keeper. I will probably get 2 more females and let them age while the male does his thing with Shadow and Eve.
How many litters is a good amount per female before retiring them? Should I move on to new females after 2 litters? 3? 4? Also, will moving the male back and forth make the females get territorial when he is put back in with them after being gone?
I have heard that a male is more likely to eat the babies if he thinks that they are not his. Is there a way to avoid this? I have no other male mice in the apartment right now, so hopefully he can't smell anything, and the females should be virgins...
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Post by goingpostal on Jul 12, 2010 7:51:45 GMT -5
25 grams they are probably 1.5-2 months old, usually at 4 weeks mine are 18-20 grams and at 2 months mine are around 28-30 grams. Since you don't know I would let them settle in a week or two and breed them, they may eat most of the litter either way being new moms, new place. Mine have 6-8 litters before I retire them, about a years worth anyways. I don't have any problem tossing in males as needed and have multiple males to rotate, there is occansionally squabbling if the females aren't in heat and want nothing to do with him but no fighting over territory. Honestly I have larger issues adding new females to my feeder tub.
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2010 0:17:56 GMT -5
Sweet! How long should I wait? will 2 weeks be ok, or is 3 weeks better? I am clearing out my other 10 gallon tonight (hamster got a new cage finally!) so I can get another pair of females and let them age when I start breeding this pair. Or would it be better to wait and see how the first pair goes?
How long should I leave the male in each cage at a time? Should I leave him in the first cage until the female(s) are Definitely pregnant and then move him to the next cage? Will he be more likely to eat the babies if I move him back into a cage when there are still babies?
Thanks for all of the help!
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2010 0:20:01 GMT -5
Oh, and does anyone have pics of a female's rear in heat and not in heat so I have something to compare to know how to tell if my females are in heat or not? (it is like one day every 4-5 days or something like that, right?) Thanks!
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Post by goingpostal on Jul 14, 2010 9:41:30 GMT -5
It's pretty hard to catch a mouse in heat IME but they look like everything else in heat, more swollen and red. As far as leaving the male in, I usually leave him in until they are obviously pregnant but that might be 2.5 weeks so if you only have the one male you might need him elsewhere sooner, 7-10 days should be plenty of time for him to get the job done. Or get a couple males and leave them in nonstop. I've put males back in with babies and haven't had a problem. Never actually had a male eat babies ever.
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Post by katt on Jul 14, 2010 14:16:32 GMT -5
Hmm that is good news! Thanks! Sorry for all of the questions but when we bred before we did things WAY differently. My roommate was doing most of the work and it was mainly a "throw the male in and let it happen" thing and then remove the preggo female to her own cage so babies don't get eaten (she doesn't do much research on these things and it was he deal so I just stood back and watched mainly haha).
If the female has her first batch of babies and eats them, and I remove the living babies, OR if I just take the babies right away before she has a chance to eat them, will she be more likely to eat the next batch too?
I think I am going to clear out another tank and rearrange things a bit. Where the mice are nor have no day/night cycle really (I didn't intend to keep them there permanently to start with). I am moving them, and I am thinking about opening up a tank I was trying (and failing) to use to grow some plants. Brown thumb. hehe I am not sure of the exact size, but it is much bigger than a 10 gallon. Maybe has the floor space of say a 20 gallon or so? Anyways, I think I will put a second set of females in there. Or in my other 10 gallon. I have to see what will work space wise and then I will have a few more questions I am sure. haha How many mice can you have in a 20 gallon? Will 3 females be ok (plus the male of course)?
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