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Post by Heather on Apr 11, 2010 22:55:20 GMT -5
my name is Jill HF Forum Username: arachniac
1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? on the Yahoo group raw feeding
2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I would like to do a whole prey species appropriate diet - or frankenprey : >
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
same reason i switched my 2 dogs and 4 cats ... they are carnivours and not meant to eat k$bb$e death in a bag crap...they need MEAT!!!
4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?
absolutely, 100% now whether they are ready is the question!!
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?
I have 7 ferrets all rescues: Calvin 13 mos. Sable male skinny Hobbes 2 yo chocolate male ok Illusia 1 yo albino female ok Asia 2.5yo sable female skinny Chaos 2 yo albino male fat Lily 7 mos.sable female ok Corbyn 7mos. Champainge fem ok . 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
I am feeding Wellness Core, evo ferret, wysong Archetype ferret 1 and dream treats, freeze dried meat patties(asia,chaos,illusia) and a soup they haven't eatten yet.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
i tried to give him a piece of beef heart last night but no go. i'll try some chicken thigh later on today.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
not much, i'm an experienced raw feeder following the 80/10/10 prey model diet with my 2 dogs and 4 cats. i've raised 3 generations of Pixiebobcats on raw, and no vaccines now since 2004. Dogs have been raw since nov 2009, as well also unvaxd except rabies and no one gets any flea,tick or HW poisons. I live in Tampa, Florida.
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer? all day long, retired.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). my camera isn't chrged yet
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (sherrylynne) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by arachniac on Apr 12, 2010 20:23:25 GMT -5
While waiting For my mentor to join in I thought I'd introduce each of my rescue ferrets.
Calvin - 14 month old Sable Male. He was rescued from a family that let him run free and ignored him completely. He's skinny, has an enlarged spleen and sadly prefers to hide most of the time - but I know where to find him. Hates Hobbes.
Hobbes- 2 year old Chocolate pointed male very sweet boy but he spends his life hiding from the wrath of Calvin. He was given to me because his cagemate was killed by a dog and they didn't want a reminder of the situation living with them.
Illusia- 1 year old female albino who came to me after her owner had a baby and couldn't care for her anymore. Her name was "georgebob" and I was told she was a he! Super sweet, dainty little girl loves Archetype 1 and dream treats, Stella and chewys treats and patties and freeze dried liver. Also likes a lick or two of ferratone.
Asia- 2.5 year old sable female, given up by her owner who had no time for her. Was eatting Walmart brand ferret food (Ack!) Now loves Archetype, stella and chewys patties and carnivoure crunch and some ferratone. Loves to cuddle!! My sweetie girl.
Chaos- 2 year old Albino male a really big boy at 3 lbs witha thick full white/peach coat. His owner no longer wanted him. He's a big bear of a boy who prefers to sleep a lot but when he plays he keeps up with the fitter ones just fine. He enjoys all the same treats that Illusia and Asia do.
Lily- 7mos. Old Sable female with a white blaze on her throat. She and her sister,Corbyn, where no longer able to be kept by her young owner and they asked me to take them in. Full of herself is how I'd describe Lily!! And a BITER!! But she gets the whole business up dancing,dooking and playing!! Likes ferratone.
Corbyn- 7 mos.old female champaign point who is Lily's partner in crime! Not as hyper as lily but very much a biter as well! Corby also likes Ferratone. Well that's everybody (this week anyhow....) Can't wait to get cracking trying to figure out how were gonna switch everybody over to raw...
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Post by sherrylynne on Apr 13, 2010 21:05:40 GMT -5
Hi, a little late(sorry!), but I'm here Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch First, a little about me. I'm 51, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 4yrs, to 15(only one would eat raw, unfortunately ). I also have 8 ferrets. Boris and Vincent came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead. I got her when she was 2. She's now 3, and adrenal. She's on lupron, and I've decided against surgery for her. After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus and Athena, both two years old. After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's becoming a sweetie . Then, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of. While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. Although Boris would still be a kibble head if I let him. The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet. With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. And, I just recently got a little 8 month old kibble head named Suki. I'm in the process of transitioning her right now That's me and mine in a nutshell The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma. So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even my three year old's teeth are amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed! And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay! I'm looking forward to helping your little ones get on a much healthier diet, and having fun while we're at it ;D As for the soup, with stubborn ferrets, I've found the best method is scruff, and dab it on their noses. That way, they have to at least taste it, and once we get them tasting it, that's a major step! And having a soup they will willingly eat now is a really good idea for later on when they aren't feeling like eating because of illness, etc. One question- do you want to try to switch them as an entire group at once, or a few at a time? Some find the first easier, some the second.
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Post by arachniac on Apr 14, 2010 14:19:56 GMT -5
Hi Sherrylynne nice to finally meet you!
I have a few questions as far as which method would work best for switching....I don't cage my ferts they are free roamers. I have one cage big enough for one ferret and another I could probably put two or three into for a short time frame. Each of those cages has food in it plus I have two dog crates that I keep food in. So I'm guessing since I have no way to really sequester a few ferrets and keep them from eating the kibble around the house that a group switch is the best way to go. What is a good soup recipe? I currently have 5 lbs of whole ground chicken (organs included) that I got for the ferrets and the cats. How long is it safe to withhold food? I have several kids who are still skinny (I've only had them all just over a month, some just over a week.) And I worry about them getting skinnier. Should I weigh them every week?
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Post by sherrylynne on Apr 14, 2010 17:51:00 GMT -5
For the thin ones, yes, I'd weigh them weekly right now. Normally, for a healthy ferret(no insulinoma, etc), they can go up to about 12 hours with no ill effects. For your's, right now I'd only keep the kibble away for about 4-5 hours. An hour or so after attempting the raw, put the kibble back out. You don't want the new ones to go too long without. Later on, once they've gained enough, we'll take it out longer. You will notice once they are on raw only they'll drop weight again. That's normal. It will come back, all in muscle! For a soup mix for switching, the ground chicken in the blender, with a bit of powdered eggshell(1 tsp per 8 oz of meat), hearts and liver if you can get it, and enough water to make it "soupy". You can freeze it in ice cube trays, and just take out a couple of cubes at a time right now, and defrost in the fridge. It might go over better slightly warmed. That gives it a better smell and taste for them. Once that's ready, simply grab your ferret and offer them some from your finger, see if they'll lick it off by themselves. If not, scruff and dab it on their noses, so they have to lick it off. You'll wind up doing this several times before they'll likely take it willingly(or unwillingly in some cases!) Always try to keep in mind that if they taste meat often enough, they will come to like the taste of meat! Just to give you and idea, here's my Boris, with me trying to convince him he really does like lamb I always use this position when trying new foods, or even for giving meds. I find I have much more control this way. I scruff, turn them on their backs, tuck their bottom between my arm and body, and then elevate their upper body so they don't aspirate anything. Let me know how the first attempt goes!
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Post by arachniac on Apr 14, 2010 22:56:08 GMT -5
Let me make sure I have this recipe for soup right... I have WHOLE ground chicken (meat, bones and organs all ground up) to that you want me to add more heart,liver and eggshell powder??
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Post by sherrylynne on Apr 15, 2010 19:29:32 GMT -5
Glad you mentioned that! I obviously didn't read your post as thoroughly as I should have! I assumed you meant regular, store bought ground I'm not too sure how well that will puree, though. You can always just try adding some water, and mixing it with a fork to a somewhat soupy texture, and feed it to them that way.
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Post by arachniac on Apr 15, 2010 20:46:55 GMT -5
Ok I'll pull their food tonight and whip up a batch of soup in the am and report back to you how everything went. On a side note, how did you stop your biter from biting?? The two 7 mos olds I took in last week are nasty little snots when it comes to biting. They are happy, TO happy in that they get really wound up and bite in the heat of exciting play. Today Corbyn hit bone and drew blood - ouch!! I try scruffing but they usually bite and run and I can't catch them. How SHOULD I correct them?? I think they were hit or flicked by the way the bite then duck and run and hide.
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Post by sherrylynne on Apr 16, 2010 9:37:57 GMT -5
I hate it when people do that to them! How are they with hands otherwise? Will they let you touch them without biting? If so, try using a stuffed toy for play. Also, give them treats only when picked up, so they learn hands are good things. For correction, try using a time out cage. No blankets, toys, food, nothing in there but them. No more than 3 minutes, or they forget why they are there Scruffing at this point will do no good anyway.
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Post by arachniac on Apr 16, 2010 18:39:51 GMT -5
Ok I'll try timing them out if I can catch them the next time they bite. They HATE being locked in their cage alone so that should work ok. As far as soup it went about how I expected it to go...Lily and Corbyn thought it was a conspiracy to poison them and flailed and spat it all over my shirt. Chaos atleast licked my finger but didn't eat voluntarily. Asia licked it off my fingers well with no nasty faces. Illusia was the big winner- she ate about 1 teaspoon of meat soup with gusto and even nibbled at a chicken neck!! But about 2 hours later she was playing and found a particurally dusty corner had a sneezing/coughing fit and tossed her cookies but she went right back ate some more and that stayed down all day. Hobbes snubbed the mix in exchange for a nap. And Calvin was MIA all day...when I see him next ill grab him and see how he does.
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Post by sherrylynne on Apr 16, 2010 18:51:20 GMT -5
One other thing to do when they bite if the time outs aren't showing some sort of improvement in a couple of weeks. All play stops. Immediately. Walk away, don't play, and just push them away when they approach. Bites= no playtime= boredom. The same sort of idea as the time outs. I get the biggest kick out of what little drama queens they can be with the introduction of raw Boris(above) is by far my worst for that, little beggar! If he hasn't had something in a month or so- it's new. And out comes the behaviours, because it's now new again Just keep with it, and they'll get there!
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Post by sherrylynne on Apr 18, 2010 14:00:56 GMT -5
Just to let you know- my computer has died , so although I'll be able to get on intermittently using my neighbor's, I'm asking the others to keep an eye out as well.
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Post by arachniac on Apr 18, 2010 22:23:41 GMT -5
I can play with Lily a little before she gets too wound up and bites. Corbyn I'm almost certain was hit he'll bite first, ask questions about your intentions second. For instance the other morning he was in my nightstand drawer rummaging around. I didn't want him stealing my glasses and eatting or hiding them so I reached in to pick up them and he honked down on my thumb and wouldn't let go for a whole minute resinking his fangs in every 10 seconds or so. I didn't even touch him and he want after me! So now I keep my hands away from him unless he's having a lick of ferretoneN then I gently slowly stroke his body. I think with time the mental scars will subside and he'll learn my hands bring good things and not fear. Its just so sad she's got so much fear in such a young soul (7 months old). On the raw switch not much has changed... Illusia stills eats the soup everyone else is "scruff n stuff" right now. But I bought some duck breast jerky for the dogs and Lily goes nuts fo it!! She climbs onto the couch jumps up onto the coffee table and goes through the freeze dried meat bags until she finds the duck brest one and tries to cache the whole bag!! Its so cute. Hoping that will jump start her onto the soup...maybe ill float a few pieces of duck in her soup!
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Post by Heather on Apr 20, 2010 0:09:43 GMT -5
Perhaps, duck is the catalyst You would not be the first to discover that duck is a favoured meat . Keep at it, it sounds like you're making progress. It will probably be slow to begin with but most of your little ones are quite young so this should go relatively smoothly barring anomalies in personalities. I'm sorry to hear that you have little ones, who have "life issues". I, too have little ones who have "issues". Sherrylynne is very good with rehab too. Your two little biters, are they marshals? or other? I have a boy right now that I'm rehabing. I've been working with him for almost 18 months. Mr Fun-Go B Squiggly. He is about 3 yrs now, he came to me at approx. 18 months. He is profoundly deaf and had been severely abused. He's a Path Valley or RC ferret (no tats) which are notorious for being more aggressive, couple that with being deaf and slapped around, he's been a handful. As far as I know, he's been through 3 homes (I know of these 3 homes). He is at this time just becoming trustful and won't bite first and ask questions later. When he first came to me, he would attack and bite to the bone each time. He attacked both feet and hands. He exhibited signs of being slapped or hit (being hand shy and aggressive). I actually got a kiss from him last week, I was so pleased with his progress. He has been a particularly difficult case but under that aggressive attitude is a little fuzzy who only wants someone to care for him and love him. ciao
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Post by arachniac on Apr 20, 2010 19:22:55 GMT -5
My little biter is not a Marshall's ferret - no tats. Progress with the switch is going slow... I pull their food away 12 hours before I offer the raw and everyone sleeps through feeding time ....then I worry they are sleeping because their BG is low and I give them their kibble back and then they mysteriously come out of the woodwork to eat!! Little brats! I just ordered some ground duck see if they like that better than chicken. Do you have anytips for switching? I was thinking of watering down their kibble so they are used to the mushy texture... Do you think that would help?
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