New STARCHLESS KIBBLE from Wysong

[mustelidmusk]

While I'm not a strong advocate of kibble, I understand that it will always be around, and for various legitimate reasons, many people will need a a high quality kibble as part if their feeding program for one or more of their pets.

Wysong as just introduced their new product, the first starchless kibble on the market. They've got a patent pending on the technology. The kibble provides 60% protein, some of which is derived from plant proteins. While I feel that the freeze-dried raw is a better nutritional option than a kibble for a ferret, it may be more affordable than the freeze-dried raw diets on the market.

I know there are folks out there who feed raw and provide a bit of kibble between meals for insulinoma babies beceuse the freeze-dried is so stinking expensive. There are also some IBD ferrets who do better with some kibble in their diet (there are different types of IBD). This may be worth looking into if you have a need for the kibble!

Link:
www.wysongepigen.net/index.php

-jennifer

[sherrylynne]

I checked this out earlier. My only real concern about if it's fed as a sole diet is the amount of fat in it. It's only 11%. I really can't quite remember, but aren't ferrets supposed to have up to about 20% fat in their diet with kibbles?

[mustelidmusk]

Yes, ferrets should have about 20-30% fat depending upon the ferrets as well as what the ferret is used to eating and level of activity.

Fat is always easy to add to the diet. You can't remove starch from kibble that has it....and after having dealt with insulinoma, I'm happy to add fat to the diet - heck, I'll take adrenal disease any day over insulinoma....it's right up there on my s-list with lymphoma

I may buy a small bag of the stuff just so I can see it, give my brats a taste to see if they'll eat it and then give the rest to a friend of mine who feeds kibble. I'm curious about the product, and I get a lot of people asking about what might make a good kibble mix. I can make a better call on this is I can see & small the stuff and see how my ferts react to it.

-jennifer

[Kerit]

I'm considering ordering a bag myself, since the cats and dog still eat a few kibble meals a week. It's not actually as expensive as I feared... still more affordable than Archetype, which I try to save for "emergencies" and traveling!

[sherrylynne]

That's good to know! Sorry, but I do now question Wysong's, ever since they've come out with a vegan cat food!

[mustelidmusk]

I question ALL of them.....it all boils down to money

At least they market the stuff as supplementary stuff to be fed on occasion or mixed with meat. They flat out say that it does not meet dietary requirements for a cat Used properly, it's probably not a bad product. A little bulk/pro bios/enzymes can be beneficial.

Bottom line - I think the name Vegan and the use of the word "diet" are misleading marketing tactics. I'd far prefer to feed meat/organ/bone with a tiny bit of their veggie product ground in for bulk/fiber than feeding kibble. Actually, If I were going to use a mixer with raw meats, I'd probably look at using their starchless kibble before I'd use the vegan product, which I'm sure has more sugars.

-jennifer

I still question the pressure pasteurization that NV started using.

[sherrylynne]

What worries me is that someone is going to see "vegan" stamped on it, and not bother reading the fine print, and their cat/ferret is going to suffer for it.

[Kerit]

I always assumed the Vegan diet was for some sort of medical condition, but looking at the ingredients now... I don't really know what that condition would be. Wysong as a whole has a weird mix of great all-meat stuff and then kibbles full of corn, so I'm always sure to look at each product carefully.

Additionally, I've heard they can have some pretty poor customer service, though I've never had to deal with that end.

[ls84]

I know a person with a Burmese Mountain dog who is vegan because of a medical condition with her liver. She is still under a year old and I guess they aren't sure exactly what the cure will be. She eats veggie burgers and rice and other not so well balanced foods. I am not sure about cats with medical conditions needing vegan foods though....

[sherrylynne]

Unfortunately, neither dogs, nor cats, will thrive on a purely vegan diet. They both need meat, as they are carnivores, cats in fact being like ferrets in that they are obligate carnivores.
Dogs will gain a bit more nutrition from it, but not a lot.

[mustelidmusk]

yes, I agree, there are always pet owners, and not all of them are bad, that caught going down the wrong path. How many people have lost birds to teflon pans without even knowing about the risk of mixing teflon pans and birds?

ANyway, I bought a bag of the epigen to check it out. The brats will get a meal or two. This way I can evaluate their poops, etc. The rest will be put in ziplock bags and provided as free samples at our local fert club. Nobody feeds raw around here. They don't even like to talk about raw feeding since <with sarcasm> "surely the ferts will become deathly ill from it amd die" . I shouldn't laugh - the next morning after I fed my brats their first wet raw meal, I ran into the brat room to make sure they were OK - ::)LOL!!!

My vet's office was 100% anti-raw when I started feeding my brats raw. Now my vet thinks ferts should eat nothing but raw because of the 5 years he has been watching my brats who come in for checkups only and minor adrenal/lupron shots.

No, I'm not a fan of kibble, but if I can help owners improve their ferret's diet even a tiny bit, then I'm doing my part!

-jennifer

[mustelidmusk]

OK,

I got the bag of kibble today. I'm starting my evaluation. I feel like I cannot recommend something without trying it out. I figure that since the starch is removed, the worst thing it can do is take up space in the gut. Thus, the brats may potentially suffer a minor nutritional deficit (compared to raw) during this trial period.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

Crude Protein (Min) ...........60.0% (70% animal, 30% plant%***)
Crude Fat (Min) .................11.0% Low - should be 20-30%
Crude Fiber (Max) ...............3.5% OK, perhaps a bit high
Moisture (Max) ..................12.0%
Taurine (Min) .......................0.4%
***according to my email conversation with Wysong

Ingredients: Organic Chicken, Chicken Meal, Chicken Giblets, Vegetable Protein (consisting of one or more of the following: Potato Protein, Rice Protein, Corn Protein, Wheat Protein), Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols as a source of Vitamin E), Eggs, Yogurt, Flax Seed, Apple, Beet Pulp, Plums, Inulin, Dried Wheat Grass Powder, Dried Barley Grass Powder, Krill Oil, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Oregano Extract, Sage Extract, Rosemary Extract, Probiotic Microorganisms (Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactococcus lactis, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis), Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.* (For an explanation of Epigen's™ ingredients see below.)

* The brats love the stuff.
* It stinks like kibble.

I fed a small snack along side their archetypal I snack. I'll be curious to see what lands in the potty box omorrow. I'm thinking this will add some bulk to the diet (firmer stool perhaps?)

Stay tuned for the next episode of epigen

-jennifer

[mustelidmusk]

Some IBD cases do NOT do well on fresh raw, and freeze-dried foods can become overwhelming in terms of cost. As a ferret owner, I would prefer to keep starch to a minimum in may ferret's diet. The Epigen may have a valid place for ferrets just as the freeze-dried and commercial raw products do.

I left about 2 TBSPs' a for a midnight snack last night - they nailed it. good quality stools this AM, but they have good digestion right now anyway.

-jennifer