Switching over thread

[jules]

I want to start a thread about the switch from kibble to raw. Is this a good place for that? Or do I need to sign up for the mentor program?

I want to get them to the vet for their check up and weights, etc. before I jump into the mentor program. (two weeks) I have started doing a few things to get them started, till then I would like to get input or words of encouragement as well as just a place for my progress for others to read and learn just like I have been doing.

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[Heather]

No, you don't have to sign up for a mentor, but I"m going to move your thread to the nutritional section so that it will get the responses that you want and need.
ciao

[jules]

Thank you very much Heather. You aren't by chance a mentor are you?
I will start my adventure with my babes in the morn, it is getting late here.

[katt]

Wow they have quite the claws.! They are both adorable though. Do you trim their nails regularly? If not I would recommend it, esp for switching to raw. Supposedly the raw diet makes their claws grow very fast compared to kibble ferrets... Good luck with the switching adventures!

[sherrylynne]

Oh, gods yes! Nails I went from trimming every 3 weeks to weekly

[jules]

I know! Can you believe those nails!? The previous owners said they have never cut them because they used them to climb in their cage......I am a little nervous trimming nails even when I had a dog it made me nervous. I may have the vet do it for me when they go and show me exactly what to do.

For their switch, I put water in their kibble a little at a time and got it to look like cat food and they eat that just fine. That was the first week.

I use a 1/4 cup of kibble cover it with water, then I have been adding raw egg and ground turkey. So it looks a lot like cat food as well. I have been adding a little more turkey everyday. Keeping the egg to about a tbls. It is pretty close to half kibble and half ground turkey.
Stitch, he seems to like it just fine. Lilo on the other hand won't touch it now unless it is on my finger. It is funny too because I scoop some out onto my finger and hold it over the bowl and she eats it, but won't eat it out of the bowl. LOL Oh and I did have to put some ferrovite in it to get Lilo to at least taste it.
After they eat I give them both a 1/4 stick of their n-bone hoping they get the idea if they eat their food they get a treat afterwards.....haven't concluded if that matters or not though
I can dip tiny pieces of raw chicken in the ferrovite and Stitch will eat it. Not by itself yet though. He wouldn't go for it dipped in olive oil.
Lilo won't touch it.
So, it is going pretty good so far I will keep with this amount of turkey for now till maybe monday and maybe lessen the kibble. I am wasting a lot of kibble, they aren't eating as much since they don't have 24/7 kibble. They get this 2 times a day 3 if they don't eat enough one of the other times.
It is cute, they come running to the kitchen in the morning and evening and wait at my feet for me to fix their bowl of food.

[Heather]

You should still be allowing for kibbles, even though you're feeding a raw mixture. If they're not eating as much as they would normally, they're going to start loosing weight. See if Lilo will at from a spoon, you can then lead her to the food bowl with the spoon by putting it closer and closer to the bowl until she's eating her soupy out of the bowl on her own. Each ferret has their own agenda, they will approach and move through the levels at their own pace...If you push too hard they will dig in their heals and go on strike.
Sounds to me that you have found the way to go with your little ones. The hardest part is having the patience to wait as they discover their new foods I think your idea of holding for the moment with the amount that you're using a good idea. During the switch (because they often don't eat as much as they should) I would try and feed them 3x a day. Keep offering the little bits of meat to Stitch, he's got the right idea. Lilo is going to take her time with this.
You're doing a great job and it's working. Give yourself a pat on the back and the little ones a great big hug. Oh, to answer your earlier question, I am one of the mentors
ciao

[sherrylynne]

What she said

[jules]

Well, it seems both are taking a liking more and more to their mush, I call it that because that is what it looks like
They get some in the am then I put kibble in the cage along with what was leftover. Stitch just waits till the next feeding, Lilo munches on the kibble or stashes it if the cage is open.
I take the kibble out about an hour or two before the next feeding, when they wake up and want to run around I feed them some more mush they eat most of it, at bedtime I have been mixing up another meal and placing it in the cage they eat about half of it and in the am it is gone. Seems to be working out and I have since stopped putting Ferrovite in it and instead dipping small bits of chicken in it and feeding it to them by hand. Stitch still eats it and Lilo I have to hold her to get her to eat any of it. She is slowly getting the idea. She will eat about 4 pieces before she goes on strike.
Been feeding them the pieces of chicken while their meal is soaking.

I have also changed Lilo's name to Lucy. It just seems to fit and I keep wanting to call her that for some reason. She seems to respond to it just the same, so Lucy it is now.

This morning, they both ate ALL their food I prepared for them! I was so happy.

[Heather]

Congratulations. You, Lucy and Stitch are doing wonderful. Keep adding more and more raw, you can even offer larger and larger sizes when they get more comfortable eating what they're eating now.
Keep up the good work....awesome stuff
ciao

[jules]

I'm happy to say I don't have to coax Lucy into eating out of the bowl now, she even goes up to it on her own now without me even showing it to her.

Stitch seems to be a little less reluctant now since I stopped putting the ferrovite in the food. I can get him to eat it off a spoon then out of the bowl that way.
He does get the chicken pieces dipped in the ferrovite still. Approx. 1-2 oz in the am before breakfast.
Lucy still doesn't like the chicken she eats a couple small pieces because I hold her and gently push it in her mouth as she is licking off the ferrovite and then squirms like crazy to get away when she has had enough of that and heads to her bowl to eat the soupy.

I have a question about eggshells. I have saved up a few and have started crushing them but I was wondering if it has to be powdered form or if very fine will do? I want to start adding a little of that once or twice a week. I have it down to very finely crushed along with a very sore arm : maybe there is an easier way then with a bowl and a spoon?

Stitch seems to be getting a little spunky now too, I was playing with him tickling him and he started grabbing the skin on my arm and tugging on me. Couple times I had to make him let go. Now he does it when he is feeling the mood without me encouraging any play. I think I started something. Is that normal behavior? Does he think I am another ferret and trying to play? He doesn't draw any blood but he is pinching pretty good.

[Heather]

Sounds like you're seeing progress. Great!!
Egg shells should be ground to a fine powder. I use a mortar and pestle...you can get them quite cheap at any kitchen supply store. Sherrylynne uses a coffee grinder for it. You should be using 1/2 tsp for every 8 oz of meat.
Stitch is playing with you. It's up to you to set the limits that you will tolerate in play. A ferret's skin is very very tough, ours is not and will damage quickly if our little ones decide to play the same way they play with each other. I tolerate very little mouthing, that way we don't have an issue as to how hard they can bite me. Rather like training dogs. Ferrets have a very strong bite for the size they are, you have to remember they kill by doing a death bite, either by strangulation or by dislocating the vertebrae in the neck and spine. I've had ferrets bite me to the bone and it's very painful. Like any animal that hunts, the more you wiggle the more they clamp down. The idea is, despite the pain, relax. Don't move, they will actually let go or adjust their bite. Don't pull your hand or whatever is in their mouth away. Like all carnivores their teeth hook inward, toward the back of their mouths. If you pull away, you will tear your flesh. Push toward the back of their mouth and they will let go because they will gag. The one consolation, it doesn't infect like a cat bite.
Yes, this is normal play for them. If you want to play rough with your little ones find a small stuffy (I use a stuffed flea with dangly legs) and use that to allow them to bite and scratch. You will not want to play fight with them or pretend to be prey, because it's all about hunting for these little ones. They may "pretend" to be tame but they're not too far off the wild little things they came from
ciao

[sherrylynne]

I've also had to teach my little carnivores mamma is NOT a meal Every once in a while one of them will get carried away with playing, but they know that once they bite- play time is over, period.
And just to let you know? 1-2 oz IS a meal for most At least once they've gotten over that initial appetite surge that comes with a raw transition. For about the first 3-4 months, their appetites will go through the roof, then they'll settle down to a more normal amount.

[jules]

Great information thank you both very much. I will have to find one of the two methods for the eggshells, my bf won't let me take over his coffee grinder.

I have noticed wth Stitch, if I don't do anything when he tries to play like that he stops and if he is on the bed he just lays there rolling over and goes to sleep, after a sigh of "fine"

[sherrylynne]

That, then, is your best way to break him of it- simply ignore him. With one of mine, I actually had to push her away several times before she stopped.
Willow would sit at my feet looking at me, and if I didn't see her in "time", she'd lean over and nip me on the ankle, and sit back and look at me again Only by pushing her away(gently) again and again, did she get the message that biting did NOT get her attention