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Post by jojodancer on May 16, 2008 7:22:01 GMT -5
I don't know if I'll be able to adequately explain what I'm trying to ask - but I'm going to give it a try....
If you are on a whole prey diet, you don't supplement with veggies, fruits, or anything. It's just the whole animal.
However, commercial raw products which have been proven to healthily sustain ferret life and are fed by Bob Church and others, have 4-5% vegetable matter in them. (Nature's Variety)
My question is (and hopefully won't start a war or anything, I'm just trying to learn) why are there two frames of thought? 100% meat vs 95-96% meat?
My understanding is that broccoli and blueberries and stuff are added to some of the commercial diets because of anti-toxidant capability. Does that mean the whole prey modellers aren't getting them? Or are the commercial raws adding them in to make it "designer style" for ferret owners and perhaps a bit sweeter to the ferret palate?
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Post by meli on May 16, 2008 9:23:24 GMT -5
I to was wondering the same. Maybe they feel that the same nutrional value we get from consuming veggies and certain fruits would have the same effect on ferrets. I struggled the the idea of having any type of veggie or fruit processed within the diet and got confused when I read some of the ingredients. Sometimes I think it is just a designer thing as well..to bring in the natural assumption "oh that must be good for them".
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Post by tss on May 16, 2008 10:56:58 GMT -5
There are two views. Some people think that ferrets (cats, dogs, etc,) need veggies for fiber and vitamins. The reason that is thought is because some animals will graze and eat grass, most of the time that is because they are trying to fill a empty belly if food is scarce. Some people also think that carnivores need veggies because they eat the stomach and contents of their prey which contains veggies. For one thats not always true, sometimes the predator leaves the stomach completely or empties it first. Even if you feed prey model and NOT whole prey you do NOT need veggies, if your ferret likes them then they are fine as a rare treat (my fuzzies love mashed taters). They don't need veggies at all, if you feed pre-made raw that does have veggies try to find the one that has the least amount.
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Post by jennifer5799 on May 16, 2008 14:17:48 GMT -5
I agree. Carnivores do not need the veggies. I've never fed my dog veggies and they're no worse off for it. Same with my cats and ferrets. When it really comes down to it, I guess it's personal preference, but I think it's a waste of time and money, and I don't believe that it is truly beneficial to the health of the carnivore. Just fillers....
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Post by Forum Administrator on May 16, 2008 16:28:01 GMT -5
Basically people think that you need to include some veggie matter in the diet to replicate the intestinal contents that would be found in a whole prey animal. While I can see the logic to this, there really is a small small amount of veggies/fruit in the belly of a whole prey animal (probably close to 1% or less of the total whole prey animal.
Now in commerical raw diets they add the veggies because the diet is supposed to replicate a whole prey animal. They feel that adding the veggies is important and that they provide essential nutrients and to fully mimic the whole prey animal. 4-5% veggies is too much IMO.
I think that if they are going to add veggies it should only be 1% or less and the veggies MUST be pureed or highly processed to mimic the digestion of a prey animal. Ferrets cant break down cell walls to get the the nutrients in veggies.
To be honest, oftentimes my ferrets dont want to eat the intestines of their whole prey. They always come back and finish it, but its obviously not their favorite part.
So that is the reasoning for including the veggies. Not because in the wild polecats go walking around munching on broccoli stalks, but because they would come into contact with pre-digested fruits and veggies by consuming their prey.
Make sense?
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Post by mangekyousharingan on May 16, 2008 16:35:44 GMT -5
I think another reason veggies and fruits show up in commercial food (especially in dog food) is because it makes the owners feel better. A LOT of people I have talked to are under the fictious assumption that their pets have the same or very similar nutritional requirements as humans do. This is, of course, false, since we are omnivores and the three main domestic pets (dogs, cats, and ferrets) are carnivores (dogs are SOMETIMES referred to as omnivores, depending on who you ask). As we know quite well, food that is very good for us, such as garlic, can kill are furry little friends. Now garlic has long been accepted as dangerous to these animals, but many people do not understand the true risk of feeding corn, wheat, and veggies. In fact, I have had quite a few people ask me how else the animal is supposed to get fiber. Then we have the "bone discussion," which tends to get upturned noses. In short, I believe it is often a lack of nutritional education or an attempted appeasement of pet owners, unless, of course they mean to emulate stomach contents (which I have read are rarely eaten).
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Post by buzzonesbirdie on May 16, 2008 18:29:10 GMT -5
mine are on 100 meat with the odd piece of dog food that they run across (lol) but i have only seen improvments since i cut all no meat products out of their diet.
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Post by mustelidmusk on May 16, 2008 21:55:08 GMT -5
I think the following reasons apply: 1. Marketing 2. Marketing 3. Marketing Im sure we don't really know whether or not ferrets get any benefit from all those antioxidents. According to Bob Church, wild polecats do eat some berries in the wild. According to Bob Church, the scrubbing action of the fur/feathers is benficial to the digestive tract since fur and feathers add a whole lot mor bulkthanthe add nutritional value. According to a friend who fed raw meaty bones for YEARS, ferrets do not need the fur/non-digestible, etc. to help cleanse the inestinal tract -he has been feeding raw meat I've been feeding my kids on commercial raw frozen and freeze-dried with kibble available - yes, they get some fruit and veggies, they get a bit of carbs - but the continue to develop softer fur and better muscle tone the longer they areon this diet. In short, whole prey is probably best. We don't know if the antioxidents do any good, but they don't seem to be hurting in VERY SMALL amounts. Limitations our medical practices, coupled with our "lifestyle" have led many to look toward preventive medicines through diet erbal supplements etc. Yes, ferets are "over-the-edge" in terms f being carnivores, but I eally think that what dictaes most raw feeding dietsis findng a balance of affordability, convenience/sustainability, a handful of knowledge, and coupled with emotional influences since the bottom line is that we don't really know that much about nutritional requirements - not even for people! Example - we don't know for sure whether or not ferrets actually need taurine. We ASSUME they do since cats will develop heart problems and die (even though the look really healthy with super awesome fur) on a diet if all rabbit. Yet, A web friend in the UK who has been raising ferrets since the sixties knows a breeder who feeds his ferrets nothing but rabbit & his ferts have no issus from it. Perhaps the UK rabbits are fed differently or are a different type??? Perhaps ferrets need less or no taurine.... I'm not taking chances with my brats - they're eating VARIETY!!!! -jennifer
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