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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 24, 2009 13:08:09 GMT -5
I know, I'm waiting for a couple packages myself, it's so tough!
I hope Reks picks up with the soups tonight. It sounds like a solid plan, for now.
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Post by ferretdroogies on Oct 24, 2009 14:46:07 GMT -5
Success! Well, sorta I made fresh soup today. I didn't add a hardboiled egg this time (the one time they had cooked eggs was at my grandmas, they didn't like it). They don't like raw eggs either, except Pan will lick an egg yolk, but that's about it. I just added it to the original recipe I made because that's what the actual original recipe called for. Also, I didn't bother adding powdered eggshells because the ground duck has bone, and I'm adding squash to each serving now, too. Pandora and Sari ran right up to it and went to town (yay Sari! ), but Reks ran off as usual I grabbed him and got the syringe out. He knew what was coming based on the look on his face (he has one of the most expressive faces on a ferret ever). I scruffed him and squirted a little in his mouth. He resisted at first, but then he started licking the syringe! He licked a whole 1ml on his own! I got more in there to see if he would eat more, but no. He ran off So, I decided to take out their kibble early to see if Reks eats the soup on his own. I will put kibble back in later today if I see that he's not eating it. Since this recipe is working out for Pan and Sari, I will keep serving it until I get the S&C. Then I will make a similar recipe with it to see if I have the same success or more (hopefully with Reks this time). What I see happening is Sari not liking the S&C soup, but Reks liking it. Then I'll have to make two different soups I'm willing
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 25, 2009 20:15:04 GMT -5
Well that's great! Go Sari! Reks will come around, he's accepting small amounts so far and that's totally better than some ferrets... so he isn't doing THAT badly. I hope the S&Cs come in soon, I excited to try to get them all on the same page so that we can move forward.
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Post by ferretdroogies on Oct 25, 2009 21:24:44 GMT -5
I got the S&C yesterday (yay CHP! ) Last night I put some chunks of S&C in the soup to see if Reks would eat them, but not even Pan or Sari ate it How should I make a soup with the S&C? Should I just blend some with the already made soup or should I make a new batch? Do you have a good recipe using S&C and hare today ground raw? I also have beef trim from hare today. Today they all got two S&C patties (1 beef and 1 duck in chunks) and soup. Someone ate the soup (probably Pan), but Sari and Reks enjoyed the S&C I haven't seen Sari eat so much food in one sitting! She normally doesn't like S&C by itself, but I think she was ready for anything but kibble
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 27, 2009 5:55:18 GMT -5
That's great! The S&Cs I found don't blend or puree remarkably easily, so what I did was just crumbled the patties over the top of a premade soup and mixed it in. My kids liked that. But if they aren't accepting to that, you could try adding it into the blender to mix it all up, or perhaps just feeding the S&Cs and then slowly begin adding soup or ground meats to that. I'm glad Sari and Reks had filling meals!
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Post by ferretdroogies on Oct 27, 2009 9:35:56 GMT -5
I'll try that today and see how it goes! I am defrosting the whole ground turkey (1lb), and also the rest of the rabbit (about 6-8oz). The only other thing I have is the whole ground mice, but I don't know if they're ready for that one I can also try putting some of the beef trim chunks in. I'll be back home around 2, so I'll give you an update then!
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Post by ferretdroogies on Oct 27, 2009 14:00:35 GMT -5
I forgot to ask earlier, but when adding the ground (as is) to S&C, do you mix it in well or let it stay separate? The reason I ask is because back when I tried mixing it really well with the ziwipeak, they didn't eat the pieces with it on it and would literally peel off the ground from the pieces of ziwipeak If I leave it separate (I haven't tried it this way before), won't they just eat around it? I haven't tried either method with S&C before, so it might work better than with ziwipeak. S&C crumbles, which ziwipeak doesn't, and ziwipeak becomes really nasty when any moisture is added. What do you think?
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Post by ferretdroogies on Oct 29, 2009 0:17:28 GMT -5
Scratch that! Reks ate the soup off a spoon! I made a new batch today, with turkey instead of duck. I was worried they wouldn't like it because they didn't like the thanksgiving turkey I brought them last thanksgiving. I was totally wrong! I put it down, Pan (half awake) started eating, then I woke up Sari (also half awake) started eating. Then I woke Reks up, got the spoon with soup, and he sniffed it, tried to get away, put some on his nose, then he went to town! He couldn't get enough! Every time I pulled the spoon away to get more soup, his mouth would follow Tonight I put a rehydrated S&C beef patty (rehydrated with low sodium beef broth instead of water which they don't like). They licked the beef broth by itself, so I figured they would like it with the patty. I also put in more soup since Reks likes it now (he recognizes it as food now ) Hopefully I have enough soup and S&C to last the 4 day vacation to Vegas Will they eat less S&C if I rehydrate it? I'm planning on giving them rehydrated S&C in the morning and soup at night to make them last a bit longer. After the vacation, I will be buying more Hare Today. I still have whole ground white fish and while ground mice, but like I said before, I don't think they are ready for the mice yet, and the fish I can't give all the time
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 29, 2009 10:25:15 GMT -5
Yay Reks! I'm so glad he's starting to pick up the idea, however slowly.
When I add the S&Cs to ground and soups, I mix it in well with lots of liquid so that the S&Cs can soak up as much flavor from the ground/soups as possible.
Rehydrating the S&Cs will stretch it a bit further but not significantly. I would still do it though as we all know carnivores have very low thirst drives, which is one of the main reasons why dry kibble diets is so detrimental to their health! The added moisture they intake with the food will keep their kidneys flushed and help them to digest their foods more fully.
Keep up with soups (especially with Reks!) I think you've made great progress so far. With the soups and S&Cs, getting them eating ground and eventually chunks of meat won't be too difficult!
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Post by ferretdroogies on Oct 29, 2009 14:31:21 GMT -5
Working at a vet clinic like me, I'm sure you see a ton of kidney disease/failure (especially in cats) due to eating kibble because of the lack of moisture, as well as UTI's. Any animal that eats kibble is chronically dehydrated it seems. This is one reason I want them to eat whole and ground raw, not freeze-dried and dehydrated. I know the quality of protein has to do with kidney health too, but why not keep the natural moisture No one ate the rehydrated S&C (not surprised ) Oh well, at least they are eating the soup (not a lot was gone this morning, but it seemed like they ate some). I went ahead and gave them S&C as is for now, but they are still getting it taken away everyday at night and given soup until morning. I will do this until we can get more Hare Today for them to have fresh soup available twice a day. Once they are eating the soup consistently, should I start adding less water until they are eating ground first or add different protein sources in soup form (or other form) first?
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 30, 2009 9:50:20 GMT -5
It's disheartening actually, because that's practically the only reason we see the majority of cats that we see. And we only perpetuate the problem by 'prescribing' more kibble diets, with lower protein! (?!)
I would slowly add small amount of moisture to the dry S&Cs (when you feed that meal, once per day or whatever you're doing.) Adding a bit more moisture daily until they will except it fully rehydrated. Once we get them doing that, it's up to you whether we start adding less water until they are eating ground or adding different protein sources in soup forms. Generally I would recommend getting them used to texture before flavor (because texture is generally more of a deterrent than flavor) so getting them on ground first would be my choice. But that is your decision on how you want to feed them!
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Post by ferretdroogies on Oct 30, 2009 15:11:16 GMT -5
Can I work for you when you become a vet?! I hate how many times I just want to scream at the vet I work for. I will start offering the S&C wet. I think that's the biggest thing holding them back from fresh/frozen raw because they have always eaten their raw dry We're leaving tomorrow for Vegas at around 7am. Still trying to figure out who is taking care of them while we are gone I'm going to make baggies with pre-measured food for the person who does take care of them. I will have them rehydrate the S&C and take it out at night and offer soup. Hopefully they can do that I sent my mom this thread to watch the floofs progress. She thinks it's interesting, until I told her I bought whole ground mice I will update you when I get back on Nov. 3rd to let you know how they did while I was gone. Thanks so much for your help so far. I think this time their switch is going much smoother than the many attempts before
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Post by spiritualtramp on Nov 1, 2009 11:42:53 GMT -5
Haha, if you're willing to relocate to wherever I end up in my future! (My thoughts are either Pennsylvania, Ireland, or maybe eastern Canada.)
Have a great trip, and I am sure that the kids will do fine while you are away! I look forward to hearing all about it when you return!
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Post by ferretdroogies on Nov 4, 2009 15:12:12 GMT -5
Hey, sorry about not posting yesterday. We got back in S.A. around 8:30pm, got our luggage, dropped off at apartment, left again to get the floofs, gave my grandma her souvenir, got back, let the floofs play while cleaning their cage and washing bedding, etc. It was a busy night! We finally were done with everything by 1am. I was pooped to say the least! Vegas was awesome! The highlight of the trip was Popovich's Pet Comedy Show. He is this Russian guy who is a clown (not a cheesy one) who adopts animals (dogs, cats, rats, etc) and "trains" them to do cute tricks (the cat training is impressive because cats are so independent). All of the animals in the show are from shelters. He explained that he really doesn't train them, he just finds animals that like to do a particular thing naturally (i.e. cat that likes to jump or dog that likes to pop balloons, etc). There was even a part in the show where this lady puts on this big jacket and about 20 ferrets fall out of it and run behind the curtains! It was so cute. Anyone that can get ferrets to not run off in their own direction can train anything! I could tell from the quick glance at the ferrets that they were definitely shelter ferrets. Some of them looked older and frail. I think I even saw an adrenal. Anyways, it was awesome. The floofs were great. They were happy to run around the apartment again and have their big cage back. My grandma doesn't know how to play with animals, she just loves on them. So they might have not had a lot of playtime, but they were carried and kissed a lot! Not to mention, my grandmas house isn't anywhere near ferret proof (not one room!) so we left her their playpen (which we use to block off areas now! ) They got a souvenir too! We went to the M&M store on the strip where we found dog and cat stuff. They had these cute M&M jingle toys. Sari has already stashed all of them in her hidey spot As far as food, they got S&C daily (my grandma forgot to rehydrate ) and soup at night (she forgot to take out their S&C ). Not a big deal. She said Reks didn't want it even by spoon and Sari didn't either. I come to find out she also forgot to put in pumpkin/squash . I was going to ask you before I make more soup......would it be ok to take a different approach to get them all on the same page? The soup is always eaten by Pan, but Sari only eats it as a meal (she won't touch it when it's left in there for extended periods of time. Reks still won't eat it from the bowl. The best attempt I had before this was when I added raw to Wysong Uncanny which they go crazy for. They will eat uncanny anytime over anything else. This might be taking a step back, but I can add ground raw (in it's normal form) to Uncanny, and it's eaten by all three very enthusiastically (Reks needs coaxing if it has raw in it, but it only took three spoon feeds to get him eating out of the bowl on his own). They might be happier this way too since it's their favorite thing. That way I don't have to make soup anymore and waste about 12oz-1lb of Hare Today just to make it. I can slowly add more ground into it, less uncanny until maybe I'm just sprinkling the powder of top of the ground as is and they still eat it. What do you think? I just feel it might be more successful and be faster as well (also more enjoyable to them).
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Post by spiritualtramp on Nov 5, 2009 10:03:24 GMT -5
I don't have a problem doing the switch with that approach, at all. Whatever you are comfortable with and think will take. You know your kids best, after all!
I'm glad you had fun in Vegas! I've read about that pet trainer guy, it sounds like a fun show. I do hope the kids get the care they need, though - especially the older, frailer, and possibly adrenal kids. That sort of makes me sad.
Do you have any Uncanny on hand we can try this with?
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