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Post by rattum on Feb 23, 2010 22:42:53 GMT -5
I have an idea. It may be a stupid one, but I do have it. I have a dog who eats raw, and no ferrets for another year or two. But I'm gathering information now. I want to feed raw/whole prey (Not live.). I was thinking I could make a few bin cages (One for boys, girls, and nursery.). Originally pick up 2 feeder mice from the store, already pregnant (Always easy to tell.). And put them together to have their babies. Seperate them by ages at appropriate time, give mums a break. Then put one of the boy babies back in with mums to reimpregnate. Once the offspring are old enough, I will humanely euthanize (co2) , and freeze them (As ferret food, and as doggy treats, or a cat meal.). I can continue this process indefinitely, because I can just recycle mice. Retire the old, and hold back two daughters, etc. I want to start this before getting my ferrets, so I can have a good stock. Though they'd be getting other bits and bobs since my dog already has a stockpiled freezer of food. My questions: 1. Is there a certain amount of food a ferret eats per day? Body weight, certain amount of mice, etc. 2. Do mice lose any nutritional value for ferrets after they've been frozen a certain time? My dog can eat food that is long since freezer burnt for people. 3. How thawed do your ferrets like it? My dog really likes semi-frozen chicken thighs. 4. Does my idea seem plausible? Also, I have pet rats and pet mice. When I get ferrets, it's be ideal if they could be in the same room. My rats are in a Ferret Nation, and I will hardware cloth the bottom so they can't get to each other, but will it distress the ferrets being so close to "prey"? I will never feed live, and the rats have never cared if ferrets are around (Ive ferret sat my friends ferret, in the same room as my rats.). There will never be any meetings between them all obviously. The ferret could easily kill one of my rats, and my rats could easily inflict fatal damage to a ferret, especially as some of them are 1.5-2lbs. I just want to minimize stress on everyone.
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Post by Heather on Feb 24, 2010 0:29:14 GMT -5
I will give some of your questions a try . If you're going to feed only prey, you will have to find 2 other types of prey as well as the mice (variety is the spice of life, it also covers some of the missing nutrients that feeding only one type of prey). My mice are raised in bins, I feed various ages as this again covers missed nutrients, especially calcium difficiencies in the younger prey. 1. The amounts that ferrets eat depends on age, time of year and gender (humour too but we will leave that out of the equation at the moment ). My guys average a 1 to 2 mice for females, to 2 to 4 mice for males. Some eat more others eat less. I also feed commercial ground, frankenprey and (sorry) rats (only frozen now). 2. I would guess that the frozen mice would begin to loose a certain nutritional value as the length of time in the freezer increases. Like your dog they too can consume food that is less then useful for humans but again remember the nutritional value is degraded. 3. Mousecicles and ratcicles are favourite treats during the hot summer months. 4. Why not I would be more concerned about the stress your rats might suffer vs your ferrets. The thing that would concern me is once you start feeding mice. Ferrets hunt naturally. They practice to learn to make a clean kill (they're darn good at what they do believe me) but they hunt naturally unlike cats who have to be taught by their mothers. Believe me when I say they're all "business" this isn't a game. I know that some on the list raise rats with their ferrets and there doesn't seem to be a problem. I do know of more than a couple of people who have lost their prize breeding mice to an escaped ferret. I also know that ferrets who have never eaten raw, will hunt and kill, they may not eat their catch but they will catch and stash until there are no more left. You are correct in your assumption, the ferret could indeed kill your rat but the rat could also inflict some serious damage to your ferret too. You could loose on both fronts in that confrontation, especially with adult rats. ciao
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Post by rattum on Feb 24, 2010 10:43:51 GMT -5
For other types of food. My dog eats beef, chicken, venison, rabbit when I can get it, turkey, and if I get to the market, I can get duck, goose, lamb, and mutton as well. I try to steer clear of pork. If I also ordered chicks would all of this be a sufficient diet? I can also order guinea pigs from rodentpro.com. I don't have the available space to raise anything besides mice, lol. I'd like them to have a diet of whole prey, and mix raw bits, i.e. frankenprey. This would cut down on how many mice I'd have to raise, and how many chicks I'd have to order, plus would be helpful because I always have 150+ pounds of various meats for my dog, but she isn't very impressed with whole prey just yet. I really don't think my rats will care about the ferrets in the room. They haven't when I've ferret sat, but if they seem nervous, I will definitely move the animals around. My big concern, I guess, if I have PET mice. They aren't pet store mice, either. They came from a few states away from a breeder to get to me. And I'd hate for something to happen to them. I have a ferret nation, and their cages are on top of it right now (Because the rats will gladly kill and consume any rodent smaller than them.). Can ferrets climb? The FN has hardware cloth on it to prevent my dog getting to them (Because she's a terrier, and she's gladly kill them, but not eat them.). Is there any guides on what you all feed your ferrets per day, or anything ike that? I've been browsing to check out other people's diets. Can ferrets really chew through chicken necks? Are chicken bones (And of course small animals) the only bone easily consumed? My dog can't even chew through turkey bones, and she can't chew through a chicken neck. She also has a hard time with chicken wings because of the high cartilage content. It's impressive that I've seen ferrets on this site eating through things my 12lb dog has problems with, lol.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 24, 2010 13:21:34 GMT -5
I can answer some of these new ones. I am just starting to research raising mice so I cant help you there. Anyway, your variety sounds good with the added frankenprey in. I am assuming you also have organs meats stashed . As far as ferrets climbing, yes they will climb, they will climb on just about anything. My boys dont usually climb up the cage but I wont say it hasnt happened. They are very creative but in general a high shelf might keep them safe. Something where the ferrets cant reach between the shelves to climb or jump onto from something else. Also make sure that in case of accidents your mouse cage is secure and maybe even Velcro-ed to the shelf As for bone crunching... My big boys can demolish a chicken wing or thigh, my little girl could do wings but not thighs. All three of them can do rabbit bones as well. The boys can take care of turkey and chicken rib cages and turkey wings. As for what I feed my boys. I have two five pound boys. I feed twice a day. Generally per meal (eat foud source is a separate meal but just to give you an idea) they will eat two mice or three chicks between the two of them. One rat between the two of them in a day. 4 1-inch cubes of muscle meat each. two chicken wings each, one thigh between them. For freeze dried they eat half of a large AFS patty between them or three stella and chewy's patties between them. Every ferret is different though and some days even the same animal will eat more or less than normal. Seasonally their diet requirements change too. In the beginning of winter they were each eating about 50% more than what I listed above. In the beginning of summer they eat about 25% less.
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Post by rarnold18 on Feb 24, 2010 15:51:26 GMT -5
ok off topic, sorry.. How old is your terrier? Does she have any dental disease that is preventing her from chewing chicken necks? I only ask because up until Lola passed last month (4 lb chihuahua that was estimated to be around 17-18 years old) she ate on a daily basis chicken necks and back, with no problem. She was a rescue so when we adopted her she already was missing about 6 teeth, it took a few months for her to develop her jaw strength but after that, even with missing a few molars and front teeth had no problem with necks, wings, and backs. You may want to do a quick check of your dogs teeth to see if there is anything going on there, especially if her breath is really stinky. The bones in chicken necks are really soft and when ever I've had foster pups from the Dane rescue I've started them on necks...when DH brought Jezebelle home at 5 weeks she was eating whole backs by 8 weeks old...
My Fuzz are eating leg quarters and chicken backs now, I cut them in half to make it easier for them to tote off to their desired eating location, wings and necks are no problem either. For the leg quarters, I separate the drumstick and cut the thigh at the "T" joint again to make it easier on the Fuzz to tote, each one has their own spot that they drag their food to to eat in their cage. They also love quail chicks and bunny pinkies.
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Post by Heather on Feb 25, 2010 1:04:57 GMT -5
Your little ones should be able to consume all the proteins you mentioned so if you can get them eating that your good to go Ferrets are lazy eaters, so if they don't have to consume bone they won't My guys have no problems cuting through rabbit thighs and backs, love quail quarters, eat whole rat (again sorry, I know you use them as pets), I've a couple of little girls who are passionate about turkey necks and they eat everything except for a small bit of the hard center bone on the neck. These little girls only weigh in at a little more than a pound. If you have pet mice....keep them away from your ferrets. Far away. Climb...ferret do that like a dream Baby Napoleon stealing and chewing on an elk leg Mad Max and his best pal Nicodemus (Max is on the far side of the cat tower, half way up looking out the window, I have a pic of him sitting proudly on the top shelf and he loves nothing better than to sneak up on the cats) Panda Bear playing with cat stuffies on one of the cat towers Little Mischief seeing if he can climb out of the ferret play pen. He's at the 6 foot mark at this point. Odin has a sleep box on top of my ferret nations. I just got tired of arguing with him about climbing the cages and sleeping in the clean laundry. So I've tried to make it as safe as possible for him. You can do your best to protect them but some times you have to take a deep breath and hope they will take care of themselves. Climb....yes they can do that very well ciao
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Post by sherrylynne on Feb 26, 2010 0:15:56 GMT -5
Climb? Granted, this is only a 4 foot tall midwest, but they do the same to the FN
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Post by rattum on Feb 26, 2010 11:21:56 GMT -5
Thank you for all the pics of climbing ferrets! I had no idea they could scale walls as well as my rats do (And on that note, there's no need to apologize when you mention feeding rats. I'm not that sensitive, I know people do it, I just can't. But I knew joining that I would encounter it. But I really appreciate your care on the matter. I've met a lot of other people who aren't quite so tactful.). I'm thinking if this is a problem, I could build a high shelving unit on a wall where they can;t access anything to get a step up, and put my mice cages up there. I'm sure I can build a shelf to hold two ten gals, and some bin cages. Because I have to keep them away from my dog, too. She'd gladly decimate my mice population, too. Actually, so would the rats, lol. The mice are on the very low end of the food chain in my house. At the mention of ASFs, though, I wonder would they be easier or better to feed than mice? Is there any difference besides size? I really love ASFs, and would love to have a colony again, even if some went as ferret kibbles. They're funny little critters. And my last one is turning 2 1/2 soon, so it'd be cool to have them in house again. rarnold: My pup is turning 1 on Sunday. I'm thinking maybe she has problems with it because she's still young, though I have noticed her be able to much more easily crunch on through chicken thighs. She has absolutely no dental problems, and that's actually one of the reason we started her on raw. I don't want little dog tooth problems. I havent tried chicken necks in awhile, but I may try again. Also, on the subject of organs. What is good for ferrets? Everything? Is there a limit on liver? I can easily get any organ meat from chicken, beef, goat, lamb, and pork. Off the top of my head, I have kidneys, heart, chicken gizzards and hearts, chicken and beef liver, and I really need to go shopping. Would they have fun trying to tear up duck heads, chicken feet, or whole cow/lamb heads? I can get these at the market, and though my dog can't actually eat through most of it, they really have a fun time gnawing, and tossing them around outside. And it's a riot to watch. Though the big dog easily eats through chicken feet, it seems like a lot of cartilage for a ferret to actually consume. On a random note: I sew everything for my rats, and in between sewing them things, I've decided to start sewing a few things for my future ferrets. Because hopefully by this time next year, I'll have a pair. So, here's the first hing that I've sewed for them (And yep, pink. Lol. I've got some gender nuetral stuff, but even my boy rats get tons of pink.)
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Post by nwheather on Feb 26, 2010 12:57:47 GMT -5
Love the bedding! It looks great! I doubt the boys will care if it's pink. LOL I agree about keeping all rodents far away from your ferrets, especially after they begin eating raw/whole prey. Some ferrets can scale a FN rather quickly. Heather, I sooo wish I had access to elk for my critters to chew on!(Heck, I love elk meat too!) Hopefully when I get moved back home, & start hunting with my Dad, I can add that variety to their diet.
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Post by Heather on Feb 26, 2010 23:28:49 GMT -5
Awesome sleep sack, my guys would be envious they're very liberated they don't mind pink at all they're all about comfort. Organ meats....anything. All you can do is try, they will let you know if you've given them too much (it will get stashed). Just about anything that you would feed your dog protein wise you can feed to your ferret. I love elk meat I've a friend who raises them tasty treats ciao
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Post by rattum on Feb 26, 2010 23:58:04 GMT -5
Thanks for putting up with my 20 questions. I'm sure I'll think of more. But for now I'm having fun reading all of the switching threads.
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Post by rarnold18 on Feb 27, 2010 14:17:57 GMT -5
AHHHH! Puppy ADD! That's probably why, takes to much concentration to actually chew the bone, better it be played with or, like at our house, swallowed whole, barfed back up and then chewed and swallowed! XP Being that we had a Chihuahua, I totally understand not wanting little dog dental problems... The sleep sack looks awesome! my girls would love it, Thor would too, he's the only boy in my business of 6! The Fuzz here just had their first taste of lamb liver and they loved it!
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