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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 23, 2010 17:00:19 GMT -5
Alright so I am beginning to think about breeding. Plans are not working out for next year and I will be staying where I am for the time being. Anyway I am wondering how everyone feels about the typical lab rat style cages. We use them are my work and I could get a fair number of them cheap. The size we use fits two adult rats and I was thinking doing 1:2 colonies of mice in them with two cages for growing up females and two for growing up males. They are large enough to fit a running wheel, the water its up on top and I would add a bowl for food rather than putting it on top. Any comment suggestions? It is still in the thought stages and I am still working on doing my research as far as the best rotation. I was thinking of keeping steady colonies instead of adding in the male since I will only be breeding on a very small scale. And I would use a CO2 chamber for killing. I have a freezer just for mice. The cages look like this but larger (this one has two mice in it) www.venomousreptiles.org/data/classifieds/images/24554.jpg
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Post by fuzzymom on Feb 23, 2010 17:46:57 GMT -5
The lab rat cages are fine for mice as long as they are able to reach the water bottle and food. Running wheels are not necessary and can sometimes distract mice from breeding. (I don't use them)
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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 23, 2010 17:48:41 GMT -5
Yup, they would be able to reach the water but not the food, that would be hung from a hopper on the side. I was not aware that the wheel might distract them. do you provide the with anything? A toilet paper roll or tunnel of some sort?
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 23, 2010 21:56:22 GMT -5
I wish I could find a bunch of those for cheap! I can't buy tubs locally so am stuck with 10 gallon tanks which are very pricey. I give most of mine wheels but tip them over at night or else it drives me nuts, haven't seen any issues with production but I breed pretty small scale currently. I also give shredded paper, paper towel rolls and egg cartons for stuff to rip up for nesting.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 23, 2010 22:35:11 GMT -5
Thanks everyone. Nothing is even close to coming together and the cages might fall through so this wont be a project until summer but I want to make sure I have my understanding straight of how to house/feed/care for them.
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Post by fuzzymom on Feb 24, 2010 20:05:15 GMT -5
I had mice that were obsessed with their wheels. All day, all night. Just listening to those wheels squeak. I provide toilet paper rolls, chewing blocks, new and interesting foods, sometimes little houses, boxes <--they like messing with these. Its like watching a house flip only with mice. They put in windows and everything, its hilarious.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 25, 2010 11:19:56 GMT -5
Hmm yes, I used to have a hamster and boy did she love her wheel. I now can not sleep with out ear plugs thanks to her.
As far as food goes what do you normally feed? Do you make them a mix of your own or do you feed them rodent block and supplement? What would be a good site to check out for raising mice as far as diet goes for pregnant females, juveniles etc. I have been reading through all of the breeding threads but everyone seems to have a different opinion on what to feed, how to house and who to keep together lol. ANy suggests would be helpful.
Like I said above, I probably will only have two or three breeding groups.
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Post by fuzzymom on Feb 25, 2010 11:32:22 GMT -5
I have fed a variety of foods and by far the best diet (in my experience) has been Mazuri 6f. It is a good quality lab block and is the staple of my rodent's diet. I first began purchasing it online. 50lbs for $55 (shipping included). Of course I was feeding a small rat colony and a few mouse groups with a bag that large. It all depends on how many rodents you will have on whether or not it is worth it to get a bag that large. I found a pet store in the area that can easily order in 50lb bags for me. They had a hard time finding a supplier though so they let me have the first 50lb bag for only $22. I'm sure any additional bags I buy will be less than $40.
This diet works for all stages of life, from newly weaned mice to pregnant does. Personally, I like to supplement all my rodents with fresh foods. Fresh vegetables and fruits, rolled oats, pasta (both cooked and dry), corn flakes, bran flakes, and on occasion I get them a treat of baby food (They love this stuff!)
The reason there are so many different opinions on how to house, feed, etc is because different things work for different people. In the end, you will do what works best for you.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 25, 2010 17:04:48 GMT -5
Thank you for all of your help. That sounds alot like what I have done in the past with pet rodents as well as what we do in my research lab. I like the idea of being able to supplement with fresh but feed mostly block, it makes like so much easier.
What substrate do you use for bedding? In the past I have used wood shavings but I have been reading that some people use dirt?
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Post by fuzzymom on Feb 25, 2010 17:51:41 GMT -5
I get a wood pellet bedding that is very cheap from the farm supply store. Its the same kind of bedding they use in horse stalls. It breaks down into a dust (but is not terribly dusty) as they use the bathroom. It absorbs smells like no one's business and I love it. I get mine for $7 for 30-40lbs. Southern States (a farm supply store around here) carries their brand and I also use Woody Pet from time to time. Same exact stuff. I also sprinkle a layer of aspen shavings to make the bedding softer. They like making nests out of that. Both are inexpensive and last a long time.
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Post by goingpostal on Feb 25, 2010 20:50:14 GMT -5
I also feed Mazuri 6f, I can't get ANY mouse food locally but there's a feed store in the town we get dog/cat food from and they can order in the 50 pound bags for $23. Before that I fed Harlan Teklad which seemed to last longer but it was getting ridiculous to ship in. I use wood stove pellets, $3 for 40 pounds and aspen/shredded paper for nests.
I made wire food hoppers so I don't have to feed constantly as well. The mice also get scraps, they don't seem big on veggies but love greens, scrambed eggs, I'll occansionally make a grain mix with oats, bran, cereal, etc and give that as a treat too. There's lots of good recipes online but way too spendy to maintain them on.
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Post by fuzzymom on Feb 25, 2010 21:01:22 GMT -5
I'm excited. I asked the guy at the store what the cost of the Mazuri would be and he said $30! I am so increasing my production!
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Post by nwheather on Feb 26, 2010 7:47:38 GMT -5
Insy... I will have to take pics of my setup that I had, I used rubbermaid storage boxes, drilled holes in the lid for air, as well as to hang a waterbottle from the outside (so they don't chew it & I could easily clean/fill it from the outside). I had pet food bowls for their food, toilet paper rolls, (egg cartons are a great idea too!) & I had exercise wheels, but they were too noisy...another thing with those, is it can be dangerous for pregnant momma mice, from what I hear, so I took them out altogether. I had one male & three females per rubbermaid box. I used shredded paper at first, & later added the wood pellet horse bedding, it does help a lot with the smell. All of my pics were on my other laptop, which has frozen up, leaving me to buy another one, & I have to wait to get all of my pics & such off of the hard drive. My cousin will do it for me, but I don't know how soon.
Mark the boxes, (#1, 2, 3, etc or A, B, C...) keep a log, to keep track of the males & females, in the event that one does not prove to be a good breeder, you can hold back one from another litter, in another colony, to integrate into the colony not producing well.
I had several pages of information (on my other laptop), on what age to cull the males (pull them out, so they don't impregnate their sisters-5 weeks, I think)..You can have a separate rubbermaid box just for the juveniles, if you want them to grow a little bigger before you feed them to the ferrets.
If/when I am able to retrieve my pics & docs from my other laptop, I will send them to you. I just don't know how soon I can.
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Post by nwheather on Feb 26, 2010 8:30:26 GMT -5
Here's my colony log...although it only lasted about 4-5 months, I do have a pic of some of the bins I used. holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=feeder&action=display&thread=2182&page=1I moved to the larger bins on the top shelve in the pic, so I could have more females, in with one male. When I do start back up though, I will likely look into more of an under the bed type box, that is long, but not as tall. I found I had condensation in the taller boxes-not good for the mice. Anyways, a couple good topics on colonies is covered in my log, like feeding extra protein when the mom has a litter. I hope this helps.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 26, 2010 14:59:13 GMT -5
Thanks Heather. I will take a look into your thread. How do you two personally euthanize. I had a thread about it a month or two ago. I am wondering if anyone here lets their hunters dispatch everyone (if you have good hunters. Where does one find a CO2 cartridge? How do you control the rate of CO2. I want them to fall asleep first and unfortunately isoflorine is what we use in our lab and is not safe for ingestion but I know if you introduce CO2 the right way it will cause them to sleep first before suffocating.
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