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Post by kaiatbh on Jan 5, 2010 1:53:56 GMT -5
I recently got 2 ferrets, a boy and a girl. Virtute is 4 months and Kumar is 3 months. I did a lot of research before getting them, but I didn't really look into raw feeding because it didn't seem like something I could afford. I'm 17 and don't have a job, so my parents and sister pay for everything. I am aware that Marshall's isn't very good for them, but unfortunately there is not much of a selection when it comes to ferret food where I live (Nova Scotia, Canada). Right now I am feeding them Living World Premium Ferret Food, but I don't know much about it except that it's not Marshall's and it has 38% protein. I feel guilty because I feel like I'm not feeding my ferrets the healthiest stuff possible, which is what I'd like to do. I mix Furotone with their food every day, but I still wish I had access to the really healthy stuff. I heard that Evo is excellent ferret food but I haven't been able to find it at any of the local pet supplies stores. My question is... is it okay to feed them a mix of raw food and kibble? I honestly don't think I could afford to feed them only raw, but it's definitely something I'm interested in. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything I can to keep my ferrets healthy. My whole family loves them to death.
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Post by zoologist on Jan 5, 2010 10:23:42 GMT -5
it is ok to feed raw and kibble when starting out, but it isnt really advised. the only reason is because they process those two types of food at different speeds- raw processes faster than kibble.
when it comes down to it, it is not more expensive than kibble. i bought a pack of gizzards and hearts for $1.71, chicken wings for $4.96 and a 'slice of lamb' for $2.73. that should last hm, eh... 2 weeks?
plus, in the long run, the health ebenfits are going to help out a lot when it comes to vet times! plus whenever your mom cooks chicken/beef/pork for dinner just ask her to set aside enough for the babies. chewey can eat a whole breast or hamburger patty in a night.
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Post by sherrylynne on Jan 5, 2010 12:00:41 GMT -5
If you can't get them on raw right now(and it does work out cheaper in the long run), talk to your ferret vet. They should at least have Totally Ferret food, which is better than Living World. That last one is full of corn, which can trigger blockages in ferrets. Other good kibbles are Evo, Wellness Core, Chicken Soup for the kitten lover's Soul(not as good as the others, but better than LW) If you are interested in raw, you can feed the cheaper cuts of everything. Wings and ch. backs for bone, chicken heart/liver, pork, beef, goat, etc.
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Post by zoologist on Jan 5, 2010 15:57:44 GMT -5
also if you can order food online shipped to you dr fosters and smith has one of the best kibbles availiable. thats what i had chewey on before the raw.
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Post by kaiatbh on Jan 5, 2010 16:38:21 GMT -5
Thanks for the advice guys, I really appreciate it. I'm so new to this raw feeding stuff. If raw feeding is, in fact, cheaper, then it is definitely something I want to do. Can you buy this stuff at your local grocery store? I've never seen chicken hearts or goat at the grocery store before... But then again, I'm a vegetarian so I don't spend much time in the meat section, hehe. I thought it would be more expensive since I assumed you'd have to buy higher quality meat. Also, it might be more expensive where I live. Zoologist, you said that you bought a package of chicken wings for $4.96, but at my local grocery store it's about $13 for a package of chicken wings. I've gotta plead ignorance on this, I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to the prices of meat. This is all so overwhelming, but I'm completely willing to learn for the sake of my little fuzzbutts ***EDIT*** I just talked to my parents about it and they are in full support of putting the babies on a raw diet! My dad works at a grocery store and he said he can get chicken hearts, livers, gizzards, etc. for pretty cheap. He hasn't seen any goat though. But it is only a small grocery store... not much of a selection. I am very excited to start them on a raw diet but I am still very new to this. Any starting advice would be greatly appreciated. I am also going to read some of the other threads to see what I can learn. Also, is there anything you have to mix with the meat before you feed it to them or do you just give it to them as is?
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Emilee
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Posts: 240
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Post by Emilee on Jan 5, 2010 19:57:02 GMT -5
Cool, the fact that your dad works there is awesome! The goat isn't necessary- you need three sources of meat, and that can just be the basics- pork, beef, chicken, and turkey are already more than needed!! I also thought our local store didn't have much, and I've been feeding raw for almost 10 days and I've found so much there! LOTS more than I thought! Nothing needs to be added to the raw, unless you're switching, then you can blend up kibble and add that to make your ferrets want to try it out. Once they're eating the raw, it can be fed as is.
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Post by sherrylynne on Jan 5, 2010 23:14:56 GMT -5
I certainly don't feed top quality meats I buy what I can get on sale, keep an eye out for "last day" sales of meat. Friends clear out their freezers of slightly freezer burned meats for me. I buy cheap cuts of beef, pork, and whatever else I can get a deal on! Ideally, you should feed as much of a variety of cuts as you can, and as many proteins as you can afford, just to be certain all bases are covered, but there are weeks where mine just get chicken/lamb/pork. When I can, I pick up things like goat, cornish hen, quail, and whole prey, but it doesn't make up a major part of their diet. Like Emilee said- the main thing is at least 3 different proteins is the most important part. Along with liver and bone, of course!
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Post by ccretarolo on Jan 6, 2010 0:31:17 GMT -5
Since your dad works at a grocery store, you might want to ask him if he would be able to order in bulk if you can find other raw feeders in your area who would be willing to go in on a large order (best place to advertise is on Craigslist and/or raw feeding boards for your area). My dad has been working in grocery stores for years and he's able to get any meat the suppliers carry as long as he orders at least a 10 lb. case of a specific kind of meat. It also ends up costing even less.
For instance, where I live even the cheapest pack of chicken necks is about $0.99 a pound. In bulk, the cost is cut to $0.75 a pound BEFORE his employee discount which is 20%. And as long as he's the one that pays for it, the discount still applies. Of course, having the other people who are in on the order pay beforehand is common practice in these scenarios.
To put it briefly: If I get it in bulk, I can get organic meats for less then discount meats.
Even if that's not an option, getting cheaper meat is alright. In a perfect world, we would all feed our babies organic, free-range, grass fed meats... But most of make do with the "lesser" quality meats simply because we feel that as long as it's fit for human consumption, it's still better then feeding kibble.
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Post by kaiatbh on Jan 6, 2010 5:26:54 GMT -5
Thanks so much for the advice! It's so much better to actually talk to real people who know what they're doing rather than just read about it. It's nice to know that I don't have to buy the high quality meat. It's just that I read somewhere that you should stick to the higher quality stuff in case of bacteria, so that's why I was concerned. And I will definitely talk to my dad about ordering stuff in bulk! Okay, I have a few more questions What exactly is a feeding den and how important is it? I've heard about them about a few times on this site and have been wondering what their purpose is. Also, would I need a separate den for each ferret? The feeding process obviously changes when you start feeding raw. My main concern is when to feed them. I can feed them in the morning, but I don't get home from school until 4pm.... and I can't come home for lunch because my school is 30 minutes away. How long would one feeding last them? Another concern is time consumption... especially when it comes to cleaning. I know that sanitizing is very important when you're handling raw meat, but how often does it have to be done? If I feed them in the morning, could I wait to sanitize their feeding area until I get home from school? It would just be kind of inconvenient for me if the cleaning had to be done as soon as they are finished eating. Bone seems like it would be important to keep their teeth healthy. Is their any choking risk involved? Can bone be given to kits? (Mine are 3 & 4 months). I've noticed that a lot of people give their ferrets "soup" when starting out. Is it necessary when starting out? Is it difficult to make? I read that your ferret may lose a bit of weight at first and then start gaining. How much weight loss is too much? My youngest is still kind of bony, but I expect him to get more chunky in the next few weeks because my oldest was also like that when I first got her. Will I still be able to give them treats? They absolutely love their Ferret Bites peanut butter treats. All I have to do is shake the can and they come running. I would hate to have to deprive them of their favourite treats. What kinds of improvements should I see in my ferrets and how soon should I begin seeing them? Will their musky smell really go away? Thanks in advance
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Post by zoologist on Jan 6, 2010 14:33:13 GMT -5
Goat is totally not nessisary, lol! i'm just kinda going through this phase like "oo, Chewey likes this meat... i wonder if he'll like THIS!!!" and just experimenting, cause the more variety the better, but you can stick to chicken beef and pork A feeding den is used to cut down on your ferrets stashing food. Chewey likes to take his meal and hide it under the couch or my bed for later. if he had a feeding den the idea is that he would stash it in the feeding den instead. i think you just need one for all ferrets. i feed Chewey in the late morning and late at night. i noticed he likes to eat at dusk and dawn (i think most ferrets do) sometimes i'll just feed him one big meal and it will last him all night. i've fed him at many different times (8 am, 1 pm, 5 pm, 10:30 pm, etc) and he eats whenever, but he will usually stash it till dawn. i give him half a bowl for 'lunch' (aka- morning feeding) and a full bowl for 'dinner' (aka- night feeding to last him till morning) i cant answer the sanatizing thing, i'm wicked lax on it. ferrets are not prone to salmonella so really the sanatizing is for our saftey. after chopping up meats i'll clean the cutting board and knives, and when he's done eating i just rinse out his bowl with dish washing liquid. no biggy. no choking. i think youre thinking of dogs and chicken bones, right? when a bone is cooked and it is chewed on it splinters and can cause choking. when a bone is raw it breaks up into larger and 'rounder' pieces which a ferret can easily swallow. i didnt give chewey a soup. i ground up boneless chicken breast and mixed it with kibble and ferretone (he goes crazy for that stuff). then over the course of a week i mixed in less and less kibble until he was just eating chicken mush. then i started mixing the chicken mush with larger pieces of chicken until he was finally eating large chicken chunks. now when i introduce a new meat i give him ground first and then add in larger chunks. he tends to like to lick the meat mash off of my fingers (thats how i get him to taste it and realize its food) and once he decides he likes it he will eat the chunks on his own. however... i had it REALLY easy switching him over to raw and you may need to make a soup. soup is just finely ground raw meat, water and kibble. easy to make. usually when people switch their ferrets over they stop using treats and start using stuff like dehydrated raw meats, like dehyrdated raw beef liver or something. i use kibble as treats and i still like to feed him his marshalls chicken treats. you'll be amazed though, once they realize you hitting a knife on a chopping board when youre cutting up bone for them means that they get to eat they'll start to come running to that! when i get Chewey out of the cage when i get home from work he beelines to the kitchen counter and stands on his back legs like "mom, where's dinner?" and he'll follow me to the fridge and wait patiently, so cute! at first your ferrets will probably lose weight, then they will start packing on the pounds and become chunky. Vicki told me that then the weight turns into muscle and they'll start to fill out. after being on raw for like 3-4 weeks i've already noticed a decrease in smell and chewey's coat is a lot softer and shinier. hearts are muscle meat and since your dad has access to them its a good idea to feed them daily- they are a good source of taurine (read the topic on taurine, it opened my eyes) livers and other organs should be fed once a week. many ferrets hate livers and the only way i can get chewey to eat it is by mashing it up and mixing it with ferretone. bones should be fed 3-4 times a week and the other days should be bonesless muscle meats. some ferrets are picky when it comes to food. like some ferrets love turkey, others hate it. Chewey likes sirloin burgers but will not eat ground chuck so since your dad works at a grocery store see if he can bring you home different cuts to try, just incase your ferrets like one and not another.
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Post by ccretarolo on Jan 6, 2010 15:00:30 GMT -5
What exactly is a feeding den and how important is it? I've heard about them about a few times on this site and have been wondering what their purpose is. Also, would I need a separate den for each ferret? A feeding den is simply an enclosed area that ferrets will use for eating. Ferrets are hardwired to want to eat in a dark, covered area so this helps them with that. It's also a good place for them to stash food so you know where to look when you need to clean up. You could give each ferret a den but I see no need for it. I have 2 as well and they get along well enough that they've figured out a system to avoid food fights. The feeding process obviously changes when you start feeding raw. My main concern is when to feed them. I can feed them in the morning, but I don't get home from school until 4pm.... and I can't come home for lunch because my school is 30 minutes away. How long would one feeding last them? You can leave food out for up to 12 hours without any worries. I would suggest figuring out how much they eat while you're at school so you can leave enough out for them. It's going to be a lot considering that you have 2 kits. Babies eat a LOT. My Ozzy was eating close to 6 ounces a day for a while when he was still growing. Another concern is time consumption... especially when it comes to cleaning. I know that sanitizing is very important when you're handling raw meat, but how often does it have to be done? If I feed them in the morning, could I wait to sanitize their feeding area until I get home from school? It would just be kind of inconvenient for me if the cleaning had to be done as soon as they are finished eating. That's not a problem. Sanitizing is mainly for human benefit so you can do it at your own convenience. Bone seems like it would be important to keep their teeth healthy. Is their any choking risk involved? Can bone be given to kits? (Mine are 3 & 4 months). Bone is very important for more then dental health. It also contains the majority of the calcium in a raw diet as well as many trace minerals that your babies need to stay healthy. As with anything, there are some risks involved. In my opinion, giving whole bones is less risky then giving kibble though. There are more reports of a piece of kibble getting stuck on a tooth or in the windpipe then of the same happening with bone. Although this could be because more people feed kibble then a raw diet. And yes! Bone is more then safe to give to kits. Actually, you're in a great position to switch to raw now rather then later since kits make the switch much more quickly then adults. They haven't imprinted on any specific type of food yet so they are far more likely to just start munching on any raw you give them and never look back on kibble. I've noticed that a lot of people give their ferrets "soup" when starting out. Is it necessary when starting out? Is it difficult to make? The soup method is mainly used for those ferrets who are hard to switch or won't accept pieces of raw meat. Since you have kits, I would suggest giving them a few small pieces of raw meat to see how they react before trying a soup with them. If you do need to make soup, it's actually pretty easy as long as you have a blender or food processor that you can use. You throw everything in (there are many raw meat soup recipes out there), turn on your blending device... And it's done in less then a minute. Obviously, larger batches take longer but it's less time consuming to blend everything together then to cut up meat as long as you have your proportions right. I read that your ferret may lose a bit of weight at first and then start gaining. How much weight loss is too much? My youngest is still kind of bony, but I expect him to get more chunky in the next few weeks because my oldest was also like that when I first got her. If the ribs can be easily seen, your ferret is too skinny. If you can't feel your ferret's ribs when you press down on the ribcage area, your ferret is too fat. But... One of the benefits of a raw diet is that once the ferret is switched over and eating regularly, the only time that you need to watch weight is when your baby is sick. Will I still be able to give them treats? They absolutely love their Ferret Bites peanut butter treats. All I have to do is shake the can and they come running. I would hate to have to deprive them of their favourite treats. You can keep on giving them their treats but just be aware that most commercial treats have grains, tons of sugar, and other nasty crap in them. Moderation is key. If you want, you can make your own treats by dehydrating bits of raw meat for them. Also, most ferrets consider a bit of regular food fed from your hand the best treat of all. And I will admit that I do give my boys stuff they shouldn't have. Mostly tiny bits of chocolate and cheese. But my rule is that they can only have 2 unhealthy treats that are smaller then the tip of my pinky a week. What kinds of improvements should I see in my ferrets and how soon should I begin seeing them? Will their musky smell really go away? Great question! The biggest things you will notice within the first couple of weeks are that they will have more energy and will be less likely to nip you. Over time, you will notice less poop and pee that stinks far less (the urine smell decreases even more if you give them water from a bowl). Their coats will gradually become softer and very shiny. And yes, the musky smell is reduced greatly. I will say that for my boys though, it hasn't completely gone away. You should notice a reduction in smell within a month. You will also eventually notice that their tails will smell like grapes. It's more of a grape smell that you would get from soda or candy though. It's very sweet but isn't greatly pronounced unless you directly smell the tail itself.
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Post by kaiatbh on Jan 6, 2010 17:20:01 GMT -5
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I apologize for asking so many questions, I just want to make sure I'm fully informed. I really think this is a great website... wouldn't have thought much about raw feeding if I hadn't come across it. I have a question about taurine. I know that it is very important for ferrets and I know that chicken hearts are a good source of it..... but I'm not sure if I have access to chicken hearts anymore My dad said that they have always had it at his store, but he went to take some home today and the guy in the meat department told him that they haven't gotten any in lately. He's going to try to get some in, though..... I'm keeping my fingers crossed! I'm also going to call around to other grocery stores to see if they have any. But I live in a really small town.... none of the grocery stores have much of a selection. I'm worried that the only place I'll be able to get hearts is in Halifax (5 hours away). Anyway, sorry for rambling.... I was wondering if there is any other way for them to get taurine. Are there any supplements you can buy? Are there any other meats that are rich in it?
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Post by ccretarolo on Jan 6, 2010 18:24:57 GMT -5
You can get a taurine supplement from just about any grocery store that has a good selection of vitamin supplements. Also, any dark muscle meat is rich is taurine. The reason why heart is a good source is because it's the one muscle that is always working. Usually, the the muscles that work more get more blood flow and hold more taurine are darker.
If there are any ethnic markets (hispanic, asian, etc) in your area, they most likely have a large selection of heart meats (since us 1st world North Americans are just about the only cultures on earth that don't eat heart on a regular basis). Also, look around for any meat packing plants in your area.
Just wondering, have you tried to give any raw to your babies yet?
If you can't find heart, try finding as much pork, beef, and other dark meats as you can.
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Post by kaiatbh on Jan 6, 2010 19:32:21 GMT -5
I am going to try them on some raw tonight. I'm going to put some steak and beef kidney in the food processor and bread it with some kibble. Is that okay? Are there any types of meat you shouldn't mix together?
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Post by sherrylynne on Jan 6, 2010 19:39:44 GMT -5
To start with, just use one type of meat. That way if there is any kind of a reaction- you know what it is. One of mine can't have much chicken- it gives him yellow, seedy stool, which means he's not processing it, and not getting enough nutrition. If he doesn't want the beef(some do find it too rich), try some chicken breast. It's the mildest flavoured, and sometimes easier to get into them.
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