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Post by Forum Administrator on Oct 10, 2009 5:05:02 GMT -5
Name: Layla HF Forum Username: GnarlySalamander 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? - Ferrets for Dummies. I've been curious about it since then, which would have been about 6 years ago. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.- Please, nothing with a face. I want them as far from kibble as possible, but I can't stand anything that's still going to have feathers or fur on it. 3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?- They all have inconsistent stools, JayJay is too fat, Mickey is too thin, and I just want them to be as healthy as possible. 4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?- Yes. 5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?- 1. Mickey: 4 1/2. Male. No health problems but he's a tad underweight. 2. JayJay: about 6 months old. Male. No health problems... I'd go as far to be saying "fat" rather than overweight. 3. Bandit: 2 1/2. Male. Healthy =] 4. Sammy: 2 1/2. Female. Healthy =] 6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)- A mixture of Zupreem and Marshall [yeah, I know.]. I was thinking about getting Evo for while they're making the switch since I'm running low on the other stuff? They get the occasional Bandit treat. I put BiOdor in their water... is that stuff bad? I don't really know... and occasionally Ferretone, but recently I've only been giving it to Mickey trying to get him to do anything to gain a little weight. Same thing with Ferretvive. Sammy will try anything I put in front of her, the others are more picky and choosy. But Sammy, I've already got her eating a bit of diced up chicken heart every now and again. 7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?- I've given them tastes of things, but I haven't actually tried to make a full switch because I want to make sure it's going to be balanced when I do it. 8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share? - I'm slightly concerned about the cost of making a switch like this... Especially in the beginning when things are obviously going to be wasted when they choose not to eat it. It would be great if they could be eating things I eat to start, so if I buy a package of something and they say NO WAY at least it won't be a total loss. 9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?- Every day. Every other day at the least. 10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). - I'm not sure how to post pictures? ?? Admin Note: Follow this link for directions on how to post pictures: holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=support&action=display&thread=38
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 10, 2009 17:27:55 GMT -5
Well of course, I finally get around to taking some updated pictures, and I can't find the camera cord hopefully I'll have those up by sometime later tonight. I've been told under no circumstance may I use the blender for meat we've got some hearts and gizzards thawing, as that's all I have at the moment. Would it be better to maybe take tiny pieces and coat them in kibble dust, or try to wet the food a little and mix them in for texture?
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 10, 2009 17:30:51 GMT -5
Ahhhh scratch that. I found half a pork chop in the back of the freezer. I'm gonna go with that since the whole tray of other stuff was still a giant block.
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 10, 2009 21:01:37 GMT -5
Unfortunately, still no luck finding that camera wire Anywho, I cut up the pork really tiny. I realized as I was doing it that it was quite a bit and that anyone who tried it was definitely going to taste the difference. Decided the best thing to try would be to wet the food and mix the meat in with it. How long can that stay in the cage for? I put it in there at 8pm and was thinking I'd take it out at midnight? If it can stay longer I'll do that... chances are I'll be up till at least 2 or 3 I took all of the blankets out of the cage, and just left the hammock for now. I don't have something to use as a feed den, and my paychecks are looking more and more terrible each week [anyone in the Peoria area know of somewhere hiring? Need a pet sitter? I'm going crazy here...] so I don't think that's going to be coming anytime in the foreseeable future
Anywho, as I expected Sammy stashed a few bits under one of the hammocks, but she also ate a fair bit while I was watching. Bandit took a few bits too, but didn't wolf it down like Sammy did. Mickey gave it a good sniff, but he tends to eat on a schedule so I wasn't too concerned he didn't try it right away. Mickey's the one I'm most eager to switch, as the first three years before I got him his owners fed him Friskies cat food JayJay looked at the dish like "are you kidding me?" and waddled off
Mickey's starting to gain a little winter weight which I'm glad about because I was worried about how skinny he'd been lately. He's ALMOST almost what I'd consider "average". The only thing that freaks me out is every time we have a shedding season, he gets all patchy and it makes me so paranoid about adrenal since he's 4 and a half now... I know from experience this is what happens to him, but I still worry in the back of my mind.
Also, when people say they fast the ferrets overnight to try and get them to eat raw, what time period are you considering "over night"? I ask this because I can very easily sleep 11 hours if given the chance so I'm not sure what people consider a "night".
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 11, 2009 23:55:10 GMT -5
Eh, I left the mix in the cage till about 1am. When I went back in there, it didn't look like anyone had touched it after I left them alone. I gave them half a bowl of kibble [normally they go through one bowl a day between them] and by the time I got up today it was GONE so I'm guessing the mush didn't go over too well.
No experiments managed to happen today, I was feeling really unusually tired and ended up sleeping most of the day, and the few hours I was actually up I didn't want to risk putting something in there and then forgetting about it, since I've been so used to the once a day fill up.
Tomorrow we're trying gizzards. I'm determined to get JayJay to eat at least one piece on his own. I don't care how many times I have to scruff and stuff, he WILL decide to chew and swallow.
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 12, 2009 11:24:26 GMT -5
Hi Layla, my name is Erinn and I'm going to be your mentor for the switch! Sorry I wasn't around for the weekend, there was a bit of a crazy time for me but I'm back and ready to help! A little about me, I'm 24 years old, and going to school for veterinary technology. When I get the certification, my plan is to then go for pre-veterinary and then medical school. But I wanted my certification first so that I can work in the field while going to school, since I live on my own and have to have a source of income. Currently I work at an animal hospital as kennel staff. My goal is to eventually be a holistic veterinarian with a focus on animal nutrition. I love helping people see and understand how nature nurtures better than anything else, and how easy and affordable it actually can be. Fasting overnight can be a helpful tool when switching. Generally we say eight hours but you may want to start off fasting them in the daytime for shorter amounts of time to see if that works. Say, take out their kibble in the morning (even if you just wake up quickly to do this and go back to bed!) and then around noon or so offer them a raw soup meal. Sometimes that's all the nudge a ferret needs - but more often then not we'll have to resort to some more clever methods. As for the blender - I have a separate blender just for the ferrets. It was a cheapo thing I bought at Walmart for $20 but it does an okay job for what I use it for, which is making soupies. Obviously it doesn't take tougher or bony things, but it purees livers and hearts which is my major concern, since some of my kids refuse to eat organs whole Are you feeding a soup currently to your kids? Will they all eat it? Pork is a good choice for first meats, I've never had a ferret refuse it, and it's fatty enough that they're likely to take to it easily (ferrets love fat... mmm.) I would try that mixture you made up earlier, this time after fasting them for several hours. Then we can make a game plan based on those findings. Anyway, good to meet you and I'm excited to help you & the kids start your journey! Let me know if you have any questions, and I will be PMing you my contact information shortly in case there is ever a need for you to get a hold of me while I am not online (as I do go to school and work, so my computer time is limited.) Here's to a healthful life!
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 13, 2009 0:21:11 GMT -5
Funny, I did exactly what you advised I didn't have any more pork, so I used a chicken heart. Sammy seems to love those things. And after fasting all day - drumroll - even JayJay tried it! When I got home from work it didn't look like they had eaten too much more than what I'd seen before I left, BUTTT everyone had tried it on their own, which is something I didn't expect from JayJay for a while. Tomorrow I'm off from work, so there will be a lot more time to be able to gauge their reactions and coax them all to eat. You said ferrets love fatty things... do you think it would be possible to find bacon without added salt? If it is... well... everyone loves bacon lol. I'm just trying to think of things they might really take a liking to. We're gonna go back to kibble for the night, just because they fasted a good couple hours, and then the heart/kibble's been in there for about 5 hours while I was at work. You're very lucky about working at a kennel. I've been applying over and over for all of the ones near me, and they never have an opening as no one is silly enough to quit such a wonderful job. I do volunteer at the local no kill shelter, but I'm not there as much as I'd like to be anymore, as we recently added a barking girlie to the family and she gets bad separation anxiety.
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 13, 2009 10:24:49 GMT -5
I would not do bacon - it's too processed and always salted. Stick with pork for porcine meats I was lucky to get the job, but I actually had an in. I live in a very small town and prior to this job, I worked at the only bank in town. The owners of the hospital are customers, and so I already knew them, plus they knew all my coworkers at the bank. Generally speaking though, it is hard to find work in animal hospitals, so I do count my lucky stars for the chance. It's hard work for sure but enjoyable. I'm glad they took to the heart so easily! Heart was a point of contention here at my home. Little Ranger, the punk, would throw up after eating beef heart. I eventually figured out that he is sensitive to beef, so I switched to chicken hearts instead. But because the heart made him sick before, he was apprehensive of the chicken hearts. He does okay now, though... as long as I watch him. Let me know how today goes!
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 14, 2009 0:49:10 GMT -5
alllllllllllright. well I didn't want to leave ya hanging, but we didn't make much progress today. well, we did, but not exactly in the right direction... I had ordered some EVO for when my current mix ran out so at least they wouldnt be eating as terrible kibble as theyre eating now, and so instead of letting what was in the dish run out, i mixed some of that in to see weather they'd eat it or pick through to the other stuff. it seemed like a pretty even amount of everything when I went back to check. we made chicken for dinner tonight, so I tried slipping everyone a few pieces before we cooked anything. it wasn't substantial by any means, but they hadn't tried chicken breast yet. everyone at least licked it, but only Sammy [big surprise there, I'm so proud of my little girl ] and Bandit actually seemed like they were excited about it. is it okay that i keep trying different things every time, or should i stick to one thing until they accept it totally and then move onto something else?
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 14, 2009 11:33:19 GMT -5
It should be okay, as long as they seem interested. If they start to freak out and refuse things, back up. Maybe stick with three meats to keep trying. If they're taking all the variety and showing interest (even just licking or small bites,) then you can keep up with the jumping around. Once they take to something fully, (and not just Sammy, since clearly she'll eat most anything) maybe push that a little extra until you're certain they'll eat it.
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 16, 2009 0:33:55 GMT -5
alrighty. so today we went back to what we tried originally, which was heart cut up with the kibble crushed up to bread it, instead of the mushy mix. surprisingly, everyone other than JayJay ate it . I say surprisingly because the pieces weren't as small as they normally are when I chop things up, so I'm really pleased. Between the three of them, they wolfed the whole thing down in about 3 minutes JayJay wasn't having any of it. He waddled up to the dish, took the quickest sniff I've ever seen, and curled into the hammock to pout . I tried the scruff and stuff a few times with really tiny pieces, but he either spit it out, or just held it in his mouth until I let him down, and then proceeded to drop it on the floor. I don't think he even swallowed a single crumb of it. I really think it's just the texture that bothers him-the fact that it's wet/slimy. He'll eat any kibble or flavor of treats i try to give him... which actually gives me an idea. I think tomorrow I'll try to just put the pieces of meat in the kibble without wetting it... kind of like when you switch foods. I don't know.. I'm kind of at a loss with him right now and I'm too tired to process a though.
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Post by spiritualtramp on Oct 16, 2009 9:18:19 GMT -5
We may have to resort to feeding JayJay separately from the others until he's on the same page. He sounds like he needs a little extra attention --- my Ranger boy sure did when I switched. Do you have a spare carrier or something you can use to separate him during meals with?
Does JayJay eat soups?
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 16, 2009 11:31:38 GMT -5
Only the carrier I use to take them to the vet with. Would that work?
None of them have ever eatten soup =/
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 16, 2009 11:32:53 GMT -5
The only problem with that is I think if I put him in there he'd only focus on trying to get out. They like to play in it on their own, but once I shut that door it's not fun anymore.
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Post by gnarlysalamander on Oct 17, 2009 22:46:44 GMT -5
DRUM ROLL PLEASE! *pauses for drum roll* JayJay ate some chicken gizzard! Mind you, we did have to do the scruff and stuff a few times .
We started off, I took one of those bandit treats and broke it in half, then squished it back together with the meat in the middle. He didn't eat it with the treat, but he ate it afterwards. The second time I tried it, he had caught on and ignored it. So we scruffed and stuffed a few times and on about the 4th try he ate it without spitting anything out, and continued to do so for the next few bits. He wouldn't eat/go near it if I let him go; but he accepted when I was holding him he had to eat it.
I feel so mean forcing him to eat it but I gotta get it through his thick little skull that it's good for him!
Today we actually didn't mix the meat with kibble. I just cut it up and stuck it in the dish to see what would happen. Bandit actually started eating before Sammy did. Mickey didn't want it at first, but I put like two drops of ferretone on it and he continued to eat after the few pieces the tone got on.
They each only ate a few pieces, but I still feel like it's making progress because no one had to be force fed and it wasn't mixed with anything. I'll check the dish in a little bit. I fasted them for about 2 hours before I gave them anything to try so I'm hoping they'll eat more while I'm not watching and I'll go back to an empty dish.
woo!
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