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Post by Heather on Mar 29, 2009 22:20:50 GMT -5
No, you misunderstood . Remove the kibble from your soupy mix, unless you already have or have never had any in it. No, don't remove the kibbles until we've got your guys eating something other than kibble solidly. If you don't have kibble in your soupy then just disregard the ramblings of someone who's not had enough sleep in the last few days How are your guys doing today? Eating? How's Keller doing? Poopies still getting better? I will check later tonight to see if you've popped in ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Mar 30, 2009 9:29:41 GMT -5
Ok, gotcha. They're doing all right. Everybody's eating, but the poops are returning to the "seedy" look. However, that may be because I've been putting some of the DM in a separate bowl for Keller. If Oatmeal's started eating that, it might explain the seedy poops (he's the one I think is allergic to chicken). I can get Keller to lick tiny bits of ground meat from my finger, but he doesn't seem nearly as interested in raw as he was in the beginning. He doesn't steal RMB from Skit's plate anymore, and doesn't seem interested in eating any that I give him. The others will come up and sniff at the ground meat I give Skit, but after a thorough "sniffing over" they will walk away. At least they want to smell it now I'm about to give them some no-kibble soup. I'll let you know how it goes
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Post by Heather on Mar 30, 2009 11:40:05 GMT -5
You know, Keller sounds like a little furgirl that I switched about a year ago. She went into the raw thing in a big way. I had her switched in about 2 days, for a 6 or 7 yr old ferret that's fantastic. Her cage mate was 9 and she was not so easy So, I was paying a lot of attention trying to get Babushka switched over figuring that Pooka was already there and suddenly realized my little Pooka was loosing weight....big time. She had stopped eating all together. It took me days of consistent hand feeding to get this little one to even look at raw food and another good 2 or 3 weeks before she would sit on my lap and eat out of the bowl on her own. Once we got there she started to move forward much easier but it just goes to show sometimes the easy ones aren't so easy Are you still mixing some pumpkin in their mix? Yes, it's good that they're starting to investigate their friend's food. That's a good start. I've found that some of the ease in transitioning ferrets is very much what the rest of the business finds acceptable as food. My whole business eats raw so the newbies see these fuzzies all eating this raw food so they too will often follow their new friends and try the food. Also, many of my guys are neglected or starved when I get them so that makes them an easier switch that switching a pampered furbaby Captain Jack and Calypso were pampered furbabies and they were horrible to switch. Again, because their new friends ate raw Captain Jack quickly picked it up, but Calypso isn't a friendly little thing (to other ferts) so she was a very difficult switch. She's eating raw and she's starting to eat whole meats but Captain Jack has graduated to prey. I don't think she's there yet. Anyway, let me know how things are going and how your new soupy was received. I will check in on you later tonight. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Mar 30, 2009 13:41:02 GMT -5
the No-kibble soup was a success - had to get them started, but once they did, they didn't stop until the bowl was empty. I gave Keller a hopper to see what would happen - there is now a headless mouse corpse in the bottom drawer of the fert-dresser. I rubbed a little bit of meat on Ushba's nose when I fed Skit today - he licked it off, but made a face about it. Cleaned up some gooey green poo today (too soon after the soup for the soup to be the cause) - you think they knew they were going to get a fecal if the poo didn't clear up? Skit's getting a bit spoiled with the whole raw thing - she doesn't like to eat big pieces, so I have to cut everything up for her She'd also still rather eat kibble if she can (My husband keeps forgetting to feed her the ground meat instead of the kibble). She ate some duck liver the other day, and today she's eaten half of a heart (after I cut it up even further, of course). Still no luck with Morphia, but I've tried popping small pieces of meat into Anna's mouth on occasion. She won't spit it out, but she'll chew it as little as possible before swallowing, then make faces and smack her mouth for several minutes afterward to let me know how bad it was. I don't want to try that with Morphia, since she reguritates so easily.
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Post by Heather on Mar 30, 2009 14:56:10 GMT -5
Fantastic, so let's hope that made it a little more digestible for the little bums. The next thing will be to increase the amount of raw but I would wait a couple of days to see how this sits. Well, at least Keller ate the most nutritional part of the mouse Hopefully, we can get him back on track in the next few days. I don't like the rainbow coloured poopies but that being said I have a couple who have rather sensitive tummies and they produce just about every colour under the rainbow. Ghenghis is terrible, he probably has a touch of IBD but it's not enough to really do anything about. The other thing is because it's so intermittent, unless you catch him doing the poppy he may not do it again for a couple of day, so then you're left wondering who's it is That's the problem with kibbles, it has the same reaction as offering candy to children, kibble is to our furkids It's one of the reasons why we often refer to kibble munching cats or ferrets for that matter as "kibble addicts". They are truly addicted to the carbs in the kibble. You're going about it right, with kitties {shrug} it can be so frustrating. I wish I could think about what to do with Morphia. What have you tried so far with her? Give me the information (foods tried, health issues) about her and I will post to the list that I'm a moderator on (the names will be changed to protect the innocents ). I'm sure that out of 2000 members we can come up with something. A lot of them are used to treating some very sick cats so maybe we can come up with something. At least Anna didn't spit out the meat...that's good. Carnivores don't really chew, we get spoiled by watching them eat kibbles. Swallowing partially chewed meats is how it's done so don't be overly concerned about her not chewing it. I will check in with you later tonight and see how things are going. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Mar 31, 2009 14:24:13 GMT -5
Morphia's about 12 years old, and has always had a sensitive stomach. She was fed Purina until about a year ago, when she was diagnosed as a borderline diabetic. She is currently on DM (Diabetic Management) cat food, but not insulin (the insulin was lowering her blood sugar too much; the food switch seems to be keeping it stable atm). She used to enjoy eating a bit of canned food or table scraps, but no longer does so as she will regurgitate them. I've tried putting blood on her kibble as gravy, mixing in a little bit of ground, mixing in a little bit of ferret soup - it all makes her vomit. The canned food we currently have is Friskies Beff in Gravy. She will lick up all the gravy, but not eat the chunks of meat. I haven't yet tried switching back to a "potted meat" style of canned food. I considered the possibility that she might be allergic to chicken, but wouldn't she then regurgitate ANY kibble I give her? She only regurgitates non-kibble foods. I've also tried moistening her kibble with plain water, but she doesn't eat it all (she drinks the kibble flavored water), and it spoils.
As for the ferrets - When I put them up last night, all I could find of the mouse was 4 feet and a tail in the "storage" dresser
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Post by Heather on Mar 31, 2009 23:09:54 GMT -5
Ok, with Morphia she well may be allergic to chicken. One of the things we find that's a little ambiguous about feeding raw vs kibbles is that the protein source may or may not trigger an allergic reaction. I've known cats who are allergic to chicken type kibbles but can eat chicken and vice versa. My Samurai, could eat beef kibble products but projectile vomits raw beef, even the blood will set him off. I found (and this was with trial and error) that he could eat chicken, turkey, mixed fish and rabbit but he cannot in anyway eat beef, pork, lamb, bison or goat. I made the mistake one time of using beef liver (because it's easier to obtain that chicken) and had him puking everywhere. I found that once I got him eating a canned product, that I then started adding raw in minute amounts. If I moved too fast he either refused to eat it or projectile vomited all over the place. He would only just start to turn away from the bowl (sometimes he never even made it that far) before it all came right back up. It took me about 6 or 8 months to complete the total switch. To begin with he ate only chicken. It took me almost another 2 yrs to get him to eat turkey. To be honest, I didn't even think he would live that long so I wasn't really concerned about multiple protein sources . How wrong I was, as the silly barfing (yes, he still eats things he shouldn't and pukes) fuzzball is still with me at 22 yrs of age, he was 12 when he was diagnosed with low level diabetes and told that he had about 6 months to live. What would happen if you put the canned food in a blender or food processor...will she eat it then? It gets rid of the chunks...maybe .... what do you think? It's a simple fix if that's all it takes. Then you can get rid of the kibbles if you want and start working to see if you can switch her to raw. Sounds to me like Keller and maybe company may have finished off most of the choice parts of the mouse . I will check in tomorrow and see how things are going. How's the tummy problems....loose poopies? ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 1, 2009 21:29:21 GMT -5
The poops are generally ok, with intermittent greens/seeds/goo. I fed them their last cubes of soup today, so I have to go out and get more meat to cook. There's also a LOT of shedding going on (I brushed enough hair off of Oatmeal to make another ferret, and Keller's tail is nearly bald after his plucking session), so I put in 2 generous spoonfuls of pumpkin today. I'll thaw out another mouse for them tonight. I'll try pureeing the canned food to see what happens. If nothing else, Skit will eat it. Ok, so I had some chicken left over from dinner tonight, and I just decided I'd cook a little bit for Anna before going to bed. Of course, she saw me pulling stuff out of the fridge and immediately started rubbing against my legs. While the pan was heating up, I gave Skit a cut of raw chicken. A moment later, I looked up to see that poor Skit had been pushed away from her bowl by Anna, who was checking out the raw chicken - and then proceeded to pull the chicken out and begin licking it Skit looked as shocked as I felt. Anna ended up not eating it, but I guess she "licked all the flavor away" since Skit no longer seems interested in that piece of meat. I gave her another piece, which she carried off and (after making sure it was really dead) ate. I also seared a small piece for Anna, as was my original intention. She's licked at it, bitten into it, but doesn't seem to want to eat it. I guess tomorrow I'll cook the piece through
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Post by Heather on Apr 1, 2009 23:46:32 GMT -5
Ahh competition, it just might be the ticket in a long run. Proceed as you are. You've raised some interesting social aspects that do occur when raw feeding or introducing any change in your pack. Anna obviously holds some level of dominance and she feels that she has a right to partake in whatever is going on. She may ultimately, switch by watching the others switching. Perhaps, by slowly backing off the cooking until your feeding her raw may be the ticket. So each time you make her a fresh meal, you cook it a little less, until its raw?? Shedding unfortunately, is going to be at least a double shot for you. One it's spring so it will happen, the other is that a change in diet will also cause them to shed. Little Pooka ran around looking totally adrenal for the whole summer last year because that was how she shed when her winter coat fell out and because of the change in diet. When her winter coat came in it was beautiful and lush plus she had a beautiful thick coat on her tail too. Good luck with the fresh soupy and with the pureed canned cat food. I will check in with you tomorrow. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 2, 2009 23:43:46 GMT -5
Wasn't able to get the soup or puree the canned food today, but I did cut up some more of the leftover chicken breast. Skit ate a piece or two (though she isn't very interested in it tonight), Anna sniffed at it but didn't want any, Keller ate a small piece or two (but spent most of his time carrying chicken to different areas and stashing it), and Llullu and Ushba each ate TINY pieces coated in Dermcaps (a fish oil skin supplement provided by my vet. The ferrets love this stuff). Other than that, nothing really of note today
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Post by Heather on Apr 3, 2009 23:52:18 GMT -5
It's something that they're all eating pieces of the meat. Keller still reminds me of Loki...got to stash that food Keep at it, it doesn't happen overnight but it will happen. I will check with you tomorrow to see if you got their soupy made up and if you had a little more success. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 4, 2009 23:11:46 GMT -5
Well, Morphia ate the puréed canned food, and vomited less than an hour later. There was a hairball, but mostly the "porridge." I gave her some kibble, which she polished off with no problem. Skit has been eating the chicken breast chunks that I've given her, so I gave her a few cuts off of some lamb stew meat (neck, I believe). She didn't eat it at all that I've seen. Anna hasn't shown any interest in Skit's bowl since the other night, and I haven't cooked any lamb for her to try yet. Since I haven't been able to run out to the store for soup meat, I improvised. I took what remained of the duck RMB (since no one was eating much of it anyway), one of the lamb neck cuts, and about half a ziplock bag's worth of the hare-today mix, and boiled all of it together. When it had cooled, I blended everything (meat and water), then picked out the neck bones from the duck. Poured into the ice cube trays and stored the rest in the fridge, except for the bit I set out for today's soup. There have been lots of hairballs in the ferret poop for the past two days, so I put in a tablespoon of pumpkin, a little more water, then heated everything up. I don't know if Keller ate any, since he was asleep in a hidden spot when I fed them, but the other 3 ate the soup. They were a bit suspicious of it at first, but it was almost completely gone when I came back a bit later. I think it takes Keller (and any friends) about a day to a day and a half to eat an entire rat pup. I noticed him come out of a sleep spot, head (relatively) straight to his "stash drawer," find the rat and give it a few good shakes, then eat some of it - so I left it to see how long it would take. I also threw in a small piece of lamb meat. By this morning, the rat was gone, but the lamb hadn't been touched. I just checked a few minutes ago, and about half of the lamb piece was gone Unfortunately, what was left was rather hard (I had to pry it off the bottom of the drawer), so I threw it away. I think I'm going to cut another piece for him tonight
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Post by Heather on Apr 5, 2009 16:09:44 GMT -5
Sounds to me as though Keller's back to eating well. I think that it's probably about right as far as the amount of rat he's eating. I give a full sized rat to the guys (there would be 9 of them) and it takes them the better part of the afternoon to eat the whole rat. The other group will take almost the whole day (there's 6 in that group but Calypso doesn't eat prey yet, or at least not that I've seen) I'm sorry that Morphia wasn't able to keep the pureed canned food down. Are you going to try again? Perhaps the hairball was the problem? It may be that Morphia cannot tolerate a diet switch Do you have any probiotics? I've heard that some people have some great results with that. It just aids digestion so it might work. What would happen if you gave her half the amount that you fed and wait half an hour and then give her the other half. I so remember being there with Samurai Unfortunately, by having the vet tell me he was dying and that there was nothing I could do about it, it helped take some of the pressure off, if that makes any sense. I guess I knew I couldn't make it any worse. He was already vomiting 2, 3 sometimes 4x a day so I really didn't know if I was making it worse or not. He still does get days where nothing seems to stay down but those days may happen once a month or less. So, now that your guys are eating their soupy, and everything appears to be going ok, when you go to get them their soupy ready to feed tonight or tomorrow, take 1/4 tsp of ground raw meat and add it to their soupy. It shouldn't make any difference to them at all. They shouldn't be able to taste it if barely at all. Let me know how that goes. I'm not surprise at Skit not wanting to try something different...that is so typical. Is there something Skit really likes that you might be able to dip his lamb in? or maybe cut it smaller (unless you've already cut it so small) Another thing you might try is cutting a couple of small pieces of chicken and lamb and mixing them up together. Anna, will only eat the meat if it's cooked right? So, when you cook up her meat, try leaving it a little raw in the middle...medium rare See how she does with that. I will catch up with you a little later and see how things are going. ciao
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Post by faunafreak on Apr 5, 2009 16:40:57 GMT -5
I put some of the pureed food on Morphia's kibble this morning - she ate it, and I haven't found any vomit yet. So maybe there's hope. The only probiotics I have are in some organic yogurt which she regurgitated when I tried to feed it to her. However, I gave it to her without any other food, so maybe I should try putting some on her kibble like I did with the puree. Anna wouldn't touch the cooked lamb Maybe I should go back to chicken again. Skit ate some of the lamb when I made it clear that she wasn't getting anything else, but once I fed Anna, she kept trying to stick her face in Anna's bowl. So I put some pureed canned food on the lamb, and she ate some of it then. I'll try the raw meat in the soup tonight. Keller didn't touch the chunk of lamb I gave him last night, so I cut it into 9 small pieces and put it on top of the kibble. Only 3 pieces are gone now. I'm hoping they were eaten rather than removed
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Post by Heather on Apr 5, 2009 19:32:35 GMT -5
That's good news about Morphia. Maybe, if you slowly remove the kibble, replacing it with more and more of the pureed canned you might be able to switch her to the canned and then proceed toward raw that way. This will be a lot of trial and error I'm afraid. There is really no right or wrong way to go about this only Morphia's way You may have to use the pureed food to help switch the others to different food sources. I've found that I have to do something similar to get my kitties to try different proteins. I use canned Innova (it's one of the few processed foods that Samurai doesn't puke up ) It may be that your guys don't like lamb. Have you tried turkey, the taste is similar to chicken so they may take to that better than the lamb. I've got a couple of ferrets who will eat a lot of different proteins but won't eat lamb?? Hopefully, Keller liked your smaller offerings and hasn't stashed it somewhere to be found at a later date I know that Thor and Loki still like their meat to be smaller sizes, unless there is visible bone in it . I don't spoil my furbabies.... ...much Good luck with your raw meat experiment tonight ciao
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